Valid Polymorph Target?

[Nubsternator]

TL;DR: Is a familiar (a raven, for my case) a valid target to use Polymorph on?

Polymorph
Transmutation
Level:
Sor/Wiz 4
Components:
V, S, M
Casting Time:
1 standard action
Range:
Touch
Target:
Willing living creature touched
Duration:
1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw:
None
Spell Resistance:
No
This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.
Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further). If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead.
The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities.
Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.
Material Component
An empty cocoon.

So, last gaming session I had I wanted to turn my familiar (a raven) into a Digester in combat to hit a Roper with the acid spit. I was denied.

After the combat I wanted to share spells with it to turn both of us into Girallons, because I, and other party members, took a hefty amount of strength damage from said Roper. I was, again, denied.

The reasons I was denied for affecting my familiar were as following:
1) The spell won't let me change the target more than one size category.
2) My familiar doesn't have enough HD to change into those forms.
3) He's never not had wings before, therefore he would try to flap his arms as a girallon to attempt to fly.
4) My raven was not intelligent enough. (This one REALLY baffled me, as his INT is a ten)

Are these valid reasons? Is there any other reason I can't hit my familiar with Polymorph? Last I knew you could do this.

I'm turning to the Playground for clarification on this, as I was showing my DM support from the Player's Handbook why I could do this, but he said he would have to look into it. He has also told me since then that the sites he is going to say that I can't use Polymorph on my familiar. However, I must be using a different form of google-fu, as I cannot find any such info.

[Mike Miller]

They don't seem like legitimate reasons to me. I feel like it should work

[flappeercraft]

TL;DR: Is a familiar (a raven, for my case) a valid target to use Polymorph on?

[SPOILER=Polymorph]Polymorph

After the combat I wanted to share spells with it to turn both of us into Girallons, because I, and other party members, took a hefty amount of strength damage from said Roper. I was, again, denied.

The reasons I was denied for affecting my familiar were as following:
1) The spell won't let me change the target more than one size category.
2) My familiar doesn't have enough HD to change into those forms.
3) He's never not had wings before, therefore he would try to flap his arms as a girallon to attempt to fly.
4) My raven was not intelligent enough. (This one REALLY baffled me, as his INT is a ten)

Are these valid reasons? Is there any other reason I can't hit my familiar with Polymorph? Last I knew you could do this.

I'm turning to the Playground for clarification on this, as I was showing my DM support from the Player's Handbook why I could do this, but he said he would have to look into it. He has also told me since then that the sites he is going to say that I can't use Polymorph on my familiar. However, I must be using a different form of google-fu, as I cannot find any such info.

1) No such text on polymorph that even implies that, such text is only seen on Alter Self but that part is strictly disregarded in this case
2)"The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower)" direct quote from spell description which would be valid but being a familiar they count as your HD or theirs whichever is higher meaning that if you were barred from doing so because of this it would be valid but sine you were not it wasn't as you both basically have the same effective HD
3) DM fiat, no rule specifying that. Then again most wizards who se polymorph haven't had tentacles before and they can sure use it if they polymorph into a shape that has them
4) There is no requirement that needs you to be intelligent but for most purposes intelligent means having an intelligence score and if your DM says it has animal intelligence, animals have a strict INT limit of 2 normally and 10 is the average human meaning that it is as intelligent as a human and way over animalistic limitations

[Soranar]

1rst

the size limitation is strickly RAW since polymorph clearly states that it works exactly like alter self and nowhere does it say ''except remove the size limitation'' anywhere

Is it RAI ? that's a tough one (due to the confusing can't be smaller than fine line) but it's definitely not well written and it would need DM ruling, in your case your DM clearly ruled against it so you're out of luck

2nd

the HD limitation seems legit since familiars don't have bonus HD like an animal companion, technically only improved familiars have HD over 1

but

they also have this rule

Hit Dice
For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher

as for the intelligence issue, it should only be an issue with a nonintelligent being (say an actual animal and not an INT10 familiar) but even then polymorph doesn't provide that rule anywhere

[Kaleph]

...
3) He's never not had wings before, therefore he would try to flap his arms as a girallon to attempt to fly.
...





...
3) DM fiat, no rule specifying that. Then again most wizards who se polymorph haven't had tentacles before and they can sure use it if they polymorph into a shape that has them
...

This: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a
According to this article (by the way, by Skip Williams), you simply get all movement modes of the form you polymorph into, and you're immediately confortable with them.




...
1) The spell won't let me change the target more than one size category.
...




...
1rst

the size limitation is strickly RAW since polymorph clearly states that it works exactly like alter self and nowhere does it say ''except remove the size limitation'' anywhere
...


I know what you mean, but I always found it controversial. Polymorph has its own ruling regarding size limits ("You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine"), which is for me quite clearly replacing completely the corresponding ruling from Alter Self. Although by RAW some DM could refuse this argumentation (mainly with the purpose of re-balancing the spell, not necessarily because the argumentation is weak), I have no doubt that RAI no max-one-size-difference limit is intended.

[Thurbane]

As far as I can see, the only one with any basis in RAW is the size issue.

The others have all been addressed.

Your DM is house ruling - still, Polymorph can be a game-breaking spell, so I'd suggest a frank discussion with your DM instead of trying to wave RAW in his face. Hopefully you can come to some compromise of how the spell works on your familiar. If the DM is willing to rule strictly by RAW, then all but point 1 are in your favour.

[Ellrin]

As others have said, your DM's objections have literally nothing to do with the rules, except perhaps for the first one--since there's no express contradiction of the limitation in alter self that a subject can only assume forms within one size category of its base form. Many DMs choose to interpret the line about not being able to cause the subject to assume a form smaller than Fine as the only size stipulation of the spell, though, but by RAW his interpretation is kosher.

Either way your DM wants to rule on that particular issue, it seems pretty clear that he just doesn't want you polymorphing your familiar into a combat-capable form--which could be quite reasonable if it's a question of party balance, depending on the rest of your party. I'd ask him to just make his reasoning on these rulings explicit, and have a chat with him about the limitations he wants to put on familiars in his campaign. If his limitations change the planned character concept or strategy you had in mind, though, let him know. If he's a good DM, he'll try to come to a compromise, or at least work out some alternatives with you.

[Nubsternator]

As far as I can see, the only one with any basis in RAW is the size issue.

The others have all been addressed.

Your DM is house ruling - still, Polymorph can be a game-breaking spell, so I'd suggest a frank discussion with your DM instead of trying to wave RAW in his face. Hopefully you can come to some compromise of how the spell works on your familiar. If the DM is willing to rule strictly by RAW, then all but point 1 are in your favour.

The power of it is the reason I try to rarely use the spell.

As for the size concern, I looked at some of the catagories it allows one to assume.

Giants are either large or huge sized
Animals are anywhere from tiny to gargantuan.
Dragons are nearly any size as well.

It seems silly that you can choose these forms but still have the one size difference rule. I feel that's what the HD limit is for.

I appreciate everyone's answers for this. It helps me get my thoughts lined up for talking to my DM about .

[Kaleph]

Regarding the size concerns, I think Skip Williams still disagrees in the article I posted above, since he mentions that, unlike the alter self spell, the final size is determined by the chosen creature only, provided the chosen creature kind is legal (in terms of HD and type) and it is not smaller than fine.

[Thurbane]

There are definitely strong arguments for both RAW and RAI allowing Polymorph to allow sizes from Fine to Colossal.

The Rules Compendium (pages 24-26) tidies up and re-writes some shape changing rules and spells, but sadly doesn't pass any direct comment on Polymorph.

Then there's The Rules of the Game article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a) by Skip Williams referenced above.

Finally, the Official FAQ (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20070731a) has this to say (note - some people vehemently oppose the FAQ being cited as RAW):


Alter self (PH 197), the base spell in the polymorph chain, says that the new form must be within one size category of your normal size. Is the same true of other spells in the chain?
Not necessarily, although the rules aren’t as clear as they could be. Polymorph, and any spell that refers back to it (such as polymorph any object), allows the new form to be of any size of Fine or greater. Shapechange specifically delineates its size limitations (Fine to Colossal), which is a much clearer way of saying the same thing.

[Psyren]

Yes, you can polymorph your familiar. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0955.html) However, a common "gentleman's agreement" is that the DM has the enemies ignore your familiar if it doesn't actively participate in the fighting. Even if Polymorphing it works out for you in that specific encounter, chances are it will just end up being targeted in future fights (before or after you can buff it), and losing it sucks far more than losing a disposable summon of some kind. So I would just use one of those.