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The Cats
2017-05-28, 08:33 AM
After reviewing last night's session and an off-hand comment from a player I've realized the all of my games as a DM are something like 70%-90% combat.

I don't do it on purpose. In theory when I look at the adventure planned there's much more balance between combat, RP and adventuring, but having thought about it I realize when we're playing I tend to rush through the RP and my solution to the players doing something unexpected (i.e. all the time every session) is almost always to throw a stat block at them.

Now, everyone does have fun at my table despite this, clearly my players enjoy combat as much as I do. I would like to exercise the other parts of my DMing skillset more often now that I've realized this however. Actually noticing that it's an issue will certainly help in that regard. Some advice from anyone who has a better balance in their games or who has found themselves in a similar situation would be helpful as well.

TL;DR I don't do enough RP and adventuring in my sessions and am looking for tips to get myself out of the COMBATCOMBATCOMBAT mindset.

Knaight
2017-05-28, 08:47 AM
Part of this is system side - you used the term DM, which means that you're in a system where the combat is on the slow side (although how slow varies a lot between editions). Beyond that, you mentioned an instinct to throw a stat block in if you had to improvise, and while squelching that instinct entirely is probably a good idea you can make it work for you by having prepared non-combat content that can be tossed in.

Koo Rehtorb
2017-05-28, 08:53 AM
Try running some RPGs that aren't about combat for a while. Being mechanically forced out of your comfort zone will help you develop some alternative skills.

Yora
2017-05-28, 08:56 AM
Lengthy negotiations can be summaried very quickly, short fights can take up a considerable amount of time. One approach is to prepare the adventures with a smaller number of encounters. Most of the time you can easily ditch a good numbers of encounters that don't do anything to progress the events of the adventures but just make the adventure take longer by adding additional fights.

Darth Ultron
2017-05-28, 12:37 PM
Well, you might want to not rush through role playing. And not just ''toss monsters at the players''.

If you need to ''toss'' something at the players, why not toss an RP encounter?

The ''balance'' can be hard, depending on what you want to do....but the trick is to do what you want to do.

Vitruviansquid
2017-05-28, 02:04 PM
1. Why touch something that isn't broken?

2. Some systems are just combat heavy. Others are social heavy, investigation heavy, this heavy, that heavy. If you really wanted to get better at the parts of the RPG that isn't combat, try switching to a non-combat heavy system. Just playing those for a little bit will quickly hone your sense of how something else should be run.

MarkVIIIMarc
2017-05-30, 05:52 PM
At the beginning of encounters with a band of thieves or whoever throw in some trash talking and drop hints they may be willing to find a compromise.
If the party never seeks compromise it is just their style.

Honest Tiefling
2017-05-30, 06:00 PM
Oddball idea, but I was worried that taking the combat out of your games might disappoint players, at least at first, if that is what they come to expect. So what if you did some RP outside of the normal session? You have a very strong reason NOT to do combat, as not everyone is present, so that block might stop your mind from drifting to that. Limiting the number of players (assuming not everyone can even show up to a Skype game) might help because it's easier to shine the spotlight onto a few people and accommodate their characters.

If getting together outside of the game is difficult, holding these sessions on forums, skype, discord or other programs could also enforce the idea of not doing combat and make it easier for the players to attend.

You could wait for them to go to a town to try this, and sweeten the deal with a bit of EXP, loot, or even RP things like contacts or non-combative allies.

Dr paradox
2017-05-30, 06:43 PM
See, I have the exact opposite problem. I wind up with sessions that are 80% rp thanks to the structure of the adventure. Mysteries and peace talks are where that's at, though I do have one player who makes an annoying habit of yawning when there's too much time between fights.

Dude. It's a sandbox. If you want to fight things, find something to fight instead of going out of your way to set up an armistice.

Jay R
2017-05-30, 07:58 PM
First, ask the players if this is a problem. As a wise person once said, "Make sure the damsel WANTS to be rescued (before charging in and making a fool of yourself)."

RazorChain
2017-05-30, 08:13 PM
After reviewing last night's session and an off-hand comment from a player I've realized the all of my games as a DM are something like 70%-90% combat.

I don't do it on purpose. In theory when I look at the adventure planned there's much more balance between combat, RP and adventuring, but having thought about it I realize when we're playing I tend to rush through the RP and my solution to the players doing something unexpected (i.e. all the time every session) is almost always to throw a stat block at them.

Now, everyone does have fun at my table despite this, clearly my players enjoy combat as much as I do. I would like to exercise the other parts of my DMing skillset more often now that I've realized this however. Actually noticing that it's an issue will certainly help in that regard. Some advice from anyone who has a better balance in their games or who has found themselves in a similar situation would be helpful as well.

TL;DR I don't do enough RP and adventuring in my sessions and am looking for tips to get myself out of the COMBATCOMBATCOMBAT mindset.


I have the best advice, it's simple, effective and free! STOP IT!!! Yep you heard me...just STOP IT!

You are littering your game with meaningless combat encounters, now remove them and put in some talky stuff.

The Cats
2017-05-30, 08:52 PM
Thank you to everyone who gave me substantial advice here. I'll put many of your tips into play in our next session. I've made a table of non-combat random encounters for when I need to improvise and I'll try making it obvious that combat is not the only option when they meet a few others.

I like the RP-between-sessions idea. Maybe when I've settled into the new job a little more and have excess brainpower for more DMing.

They're all brand-new players so, while they do enjoy it combat heavy, they also have no frame of reference. I want to vary play both for myself and to give them a chance to experience it.

Also, considering we're a group of mostly total newbies, switching systems is not an especially easy task. I wouldn't mind convincing them to give something else a try but they're still just learning 5E DnD as it is.

To Darth Ultron and RazorChain: "You're finding it difficult to do a thing? Why don't you just do the thing!" Does not actually lead to the thing becoming less difficult to do.

Darth Ultron
2017-05-31, 07:21 AM
To Darth Ultron and RazorChain: "You're finding it difficult to do a thing? Why don't you just do the thing!" Does not actually lead to the thing becoming less difficult to do.

It does depend what your trying to do.

You can ''stop'' combat easy: don't have combat. Even if the game ''somehow starts some combat on it's own'' while you are just sitting there, you can stop the combat quick.

Jay R
2017-05-31, 11:59 AM
It does depend what your trying to do.

You can ''stop'' combat easy: don't have combat. Even if the game ''somehow starts some combat on it's own'' while you are just sitting there, you can stop the combat quick.

It's not quite that easy. The OP sends a stat block after them when the players do something unexpected. Yes, of course the DM could simply not have combat. But in that case, the game stops -- unless he or she knows how to establish some new non-combat challenge in its place. The issue before us is how to establish that new challenge with no lead time.

FreddyNoNose
2017-05-31, 03:54 PM
After reviewing last night's session and an off-hand comment from a player I've realized the all of my games as a DM are something like 70%-90% combat.

I don't do it on purpose. In theory when I look at the adventure planned there's much more balance between combat, RP and adventuring, but having thought about it I realize when we're playing I tend to rush through the RP and my solution to the players doing something unexpected (i.e. all the time every session) is almost always to throw a stat block at them.

Now, everyone does have fun at my table despite this, clearly my players enjoy combat as much as I do. I would like to exercise the other parts of my DMing skillset more often now that I've realized this however. Actually noticing that it's an issue will certainly help in that regard. Some advice from anyone who has a better balance in their games or who has found themselves in a similar situation would be helpful as well.

TL;DR I don't do enough RP and adventuring in my sessions and am looking for tips to get myself out of the COMBATCOMBATCOMBAT mindset.
One side comment? How about asking everyone how they feel and see if it is a consensus or just a blip.

The Cats
2017-05-31, 07:32 PM
One side comment? How about asking everyone how they feel and see if it is a consensus or just a blip.

Oh I've asked them about it. They all just kind of shrugged. They're all brand-new players, a few of them didn't even know what DnD was until I told them about it and convinced them to try it out. I want to try a few sessions with more varied gameplay, then I can ask which they prefer.


Well, one way to do it would be to think up some plot scenarios where combat would be detrimental. Get people to want to solve the problem outside of combat, the RPing should be extended. It would also deter you from wanting to just throw encounters at them.

This is great! Do you have any suggestions of scenario that fit that mold? I don't think I want to give them something like a whole complicated political intrigue plot quite yet (they haven't quite grasped the importance of note taking).

For reference: They're currently travelling with a caravan into some fey and lycanthrope infested woods. I plan to have the lycanthropes block the road in a somewhat permanent way so they'll be stuck in the woods for a few sessions at least. The plot I have in mind involves a conflict between the fey and the lycanthropes due to the latter corrupting the forest, but turns out the wolf clan is innocent and only the boar clan has colluded with dark powers. The fey don't make the distinction but the party might.

RazorChain
2017-05-31, 08:41 PM
To Darth Ultron and RazorChain: "You're finding it difficult to do a thing? Why don't you just do the thing!" Does not actually lead to the thing becoming less difficult to do.

Nobody said it would be easy, if it was easy you wouldn't be on the forums asking for advice. I gave you a solid advice to your dilemma, in this case the advice is to stop doing a thing, you didn't relay if it was difficult or not to do something else.



TL;DR I don't do enough RP and adventuring in my sessions and am looking for tips to get myself out of the COMBATCOMBATCOMBAT mindset.

My answer was to stop throwing in meaningless combat encounters and put in something else. Now you never asked what you should replace combat with. Another answer would be stop rushing through your RP encounters.



It does depend what your trying to do.

You can ''stop'' combat easy: don't have combat. Even if the game ''somehow starts some combat on it's own'' while you are just sitting there, you can stop the combat quick.


It's not quite that easy. The OP sends a stat block after them when the players do something unexpected. Yes, of course the DM could simply not have combat. But in that case, the game stops -- unless he or she knows how to establish some new non-combat challenge in its place. The issue before us is how to establish that new challenge with no lead time.

If he doesn't kow how to replace combat with some roleplaying then I think he has a SERIOUS issue. Combat is just a part of roleplaying, in a 6 hour sessions I might have 1 or maybe 2 combat encounters...sometimes there is none which is balanced out with occasionally a whole session is action from start to end. He doesn't have to establish a new challenge, just something else. If the issue is about improvising something new then either he has to stop the game, tell his player that they did something unexpected and have a brief pause while he thinks something up or just throw in teleporting mutated ninja turtles that the PC's can fight. Now if he always throws in TMNT when the PC's do something unexpected then he's never going to get better in improvising.

Improvisation can be learned like everything else. First thing he can do is to make a list of encounters that don't involve combat, whenever the players do something unexpected he can look at his list and pick something suitable to throw in their path and it doesn't have to be a challenge.

The Cats
2017-05-31, 09:12 PM
Improvisation can be learned like everything else. First thing he can do is to make a list of encounters that don't involve combat, whenever the players do something unexpected he can look at his list and pick something suitable to throw in their path and it doesn't have to be a challenge.

This is solid advice. It provides steps to follow to attain the goal in mind.




I have the best advice, it's simple, effective and free! STOP IT!!! Yep you heard me...just STOP IT!

You are littering your game with meaningless combat encounters, now remove them and put in some talky stuff.

This is not. It restates the goal that the advice seeker already understands they want to attain without providing any information as to how to get there.


If I were asking for advice on how to swear less around children I would be hoping for "Speak more slowly so you don't swear accidentally" "Swear less in general so it's less of a change around children"

I would not be looking for "Just stop swearing around children!"

Cluedrew
2017-05-31, 09:15 PM
Nobody said it would be easy, if it was easy you wouldn't be on the forums asking for advice.Sure, now we should also give advice on how to do the difficult thing.

My advice is look at it more from a story perspective. Very few people want to die, very few people have no one who will be upset if they die. Surprisingly few people are even willing to risk their lives most of the time. Don't look at stats, think about the people (animals, creatures, whatever) that those stats represent. What to they want? What will they do to get it? What things do they not want and what are the things that they will not do?

D&D isn't really geared for this, so you kind of have to go over and above the system to do it. (An opinion that has gotten me yelled at before, but last time I checked: Motives wasn't in the stat block, perhaps they have added it?) But I think it is a near essential step to making the experience.

Slipperychicken
2017-05-31, 09:28 PM
A big part of solving this in my experience has been to use a rules system whose combat doesn't take hours.

If you're playing 3rd edition dnd or its derivatives, you can easily find yourself spending hours adjudicating less than a minute worth of in-game violence. Migrating away from that goes a long way toward making time for other aspects of roleplaying.

Lorsa
2017-06-02, 04:37 AM
I think there are two basic steps to solve this problem for you.

Step 1: Figure out exactly where your problem is coming from.

Step 2: Practice a different path.

I know that may sound abstract but I'll try to make it more concrete for you.

In your first post, it seems to me that you in fact have two problems. One is related to an issue with coming up with good ideas for non-combat encounters whereas the other is a lack of confidence with playing them through. I reach this conclusion by you saying that you often rush through non-combat play (possibly due to lack of confidence) and that you default to combat in response to unexpected actions (possibly due to lack of ideas).

If these are not your problems, feel free to correct me so we can find out more precisely what the source of your issue is.

In any case, if we assume these two problems are the main sources behind your issue, let's look at how to practice a different path.

For lack of ideas, the solution is fairly simple. Sit down in a relaxed environment (that is, between sessions) and write down a list of ten non-combat encounters. To make it easier, you could define a basic situations such as:

"The group is traveling between cities."

At this point, you should write down ANY ideas, no matter how silly. Seriously, NO MATTER HOW SILLY or small they may seem. For example, you may come up with the idea of "a farmer has lost his pet in the woods and is standing by the road crying and asking for help". It may seem like a stupid idea but it's an idea. The point is to practice coming up with ideas.

It may help to stop thinking in terms of "encounter" also. Instead, try to look at it as "something that happens" or "someone the PCs may run into". Another "silly" idea is "two people are making love in the bushes next to the road, are startled and runs out as the PCs move past... the woman then stops and begs them not to tell her husband". It doesn't HAVE to lead anywhere, it just has to happen (although it could lead somewhere, but that's not the point at this stage).

So, write down those ten encounters (say, for traveling). Then, the next day, write down ten MORE encounters (say, for staying in the city). Now you have two lists that you can use to take inspiration from whenever your players do something unexpected (or better yet, throw something unexpected at them). Do this type of list-making until you feel more comfortable coming up with non-combat ideas.

Now, for the second problem of feeling confident playing them through, it will require some measure of "forcing yourself to do it". Take one of those non-combat situations, say the farmer having lost his pet in the woods, and play through it properly.

First, take on the role of the farmer. Try to imagine what it must be for him to have lost his valued dog (or whatever) in the woods. Perhaps he hardly makes sense when speaking to them. Maybe he rightfully identifies that they are skilled adventurers and heroes that could find his dog and desperately tries to convince them to help him.

Then play through the search. Have them roll for tracking. Eventually they might find the dog. Then imagine how the dog feels. Is it excited, angry, scared? What lead it into the woods in the first place? How does it react to strangers tries to catch it? Let the players roll animal handling or something in order to calm the dog, otherwise you might actually end up with a small "combat" where the PCs hopefully just wants to grab the dog and not kill it.

Don't worry about it feeling "small" or something such. The point here is to make you used to playing through non-combat encounters, not to provide "the best game" or whatever. You need the practice, so think of it like just that. Once the players bring back the dog, the farmer could offer them some dinner and nightly roof at his farm, which can lead into another non-combat encounter where the PCs socialize with his family. Remember, there doesn't have to be another point to it other than you getting some confidence with such scenes (unlike you count "portraying an active, living world" as a point in itself).

If the players seem horribly bored though, there's nothing wrong with local bandits arriving at the farm, leading a combat encounters where the players end up being heroes once again. As long as you break your pattern a little bit, it's still an improvement.

To summarize; write down lists with non-combat ideas in a relaxed environment. Take the time to play through non-combat encounters, don't worry about it feeling "small" or "cheap" or "silly". Remember that your goal is to gain confidence.

Braininthejar2
2017-06-02, 05:05 AM
apart from the above advice, you can also try to make fights quicker - for example, you can do some things before the game, such as rolling the villains' saves against your players' signature moves.

CharonsHelper
2017-06-02, 06:22 AM
apart from the above advice, you can also try to make fights quicker - for example, you can do some things before the game, such as rolling the villains' saves against your players' signature moves.

I don't think that rolling slows down combat that much. It's generally people hesitating on deciding what they're doing.

Now - part of being faster is just experience with the system. But one thing that can help is just have a 30 second egg timer. Tell the players to decide what they'll do before their turn, because during their turn they have 30 seconds to say what they're doing. (not to finish doing it - which will still be slow because they're newbies - just to get started)