Are there any effects that make you permanently lose a class feature?

[NecroDancer]

And can they be used on some of the truenamer's laws (looking at you law of repetition)?


I really want to play a true namer because I like the lore and they seem relatively straightforward (I don't need to be worried about 50+ books to make them decent because I can't optimize).

The class itself seems like an interesting challenge (kinda like masochism) and there are some fun to you can use to break the game (aka being as effective as a tier 3 class).

[Necroticplague]

And can they be used on some of the truenamer's laws (looking at you law of repetition)?


I really want to play a true namer because I like the lore and they seem relatively straightforward (I don't need to be worried about 50+ books to make them decent because I can't optimize).

The class itself seems like an interesting challenge (kinda like masochism) and there are some fun to you can use to break the game (aka being as effective as a tier 3 class).

To answer the title question: yes. To answer the first question in the OP: no. The Laws of truenaming aren't a truenamer class feature, any more than having casting provoke is a Sorceror class feature. While Utterances (SU) is a class feature, the Laws aren't written into that class feature (and beside, even if they were, that would make removing them require removing your ability to speak utterances).

However, for a similar way of getting around the Laws, there's the Garbler. It never needs to make Truespeak checks for it's utterances (and get's one as a free action every round, to boot). Now, this ability itsn't listed as a special ability, it's listed under "skills", so normal polymorph magic is gonna cut it. However, Celestial Channeling (BoED) will (since the mortal get's the celestial's skills). So Call a Celestial Garbler, Channel it, and now you can speak all your utterances with no check required.

[Vaz]

You can wish it away if your DM is lenient.

[NecroDancer]

To answer the title question: yes. To answer the first question in the OP: no. The Laws of truenaming aren't a truenamer class feature, any more than having casting provoke is a Sorceror class feature. While Utterances (SU) is a class feature, the Laws aren't written into that class feature (and beside, even if they were, that would make removing them require removing your ability to speak utterances).

However, for a similar way of getting around the Laws, there's the Garbler. It never needs to make Truespeak checks for it's utterances (and get's one as a free action every round, to boot). Now, this ability itsn't listed as a special ability, it's listed under "skills", so normal polymorph magic is gonna cut it. However, Celestial Channeling (BoED) will (since the mortal get's the celestial's skills). So Call a Celestial Garbler, Channel it, and now you can speak all your utterances with no check required.

Thank you for the clarification (and the neat trick).

[Jormengand]

If you do the garbler trick, then if you get Bracers of the Entangling Blast or Bracers of the Blast Barrier you can deal infinite damage because the damage is based on the spell level, spell-like abilities work just like spells, utterances are spell-like and you can add as much as you like to the truespeak DC in order to increase the utterance's level by the same amount. You can also do a similar trick with an Energy Transformation Field spell.

[Psyren]

The Laws are there for a reason - namely, to keep your utterances from simply being at-will. Since utterances can do some things invocations can't (infinite healing being the most-cited culprit, but some others like Ward of Peace, Spell Rebirth and Metamagic Catalyst could also prove problematic if made at-will), a GM wanting to restrict that is understandable even if Truespeaking itself could use some help.

Rather than abolish the Laws entirely, I would recommend using a fixed truenamer, like the one Kyeudo put together that is in my sig. In addition to fixing the scaling on the Law of Resistance, it buffed the Truenamer chassis itself along with many of the utterances and truenaming feats to give a wider variety of viable options. It also added a prepared version of the Truenamer called the Academic that can more readily use some of the more niche utterances out there, in exchange for a bit of MAD.

[Segev]

The best example of things getting rid of class features that I can think of doesn't help you, but I'll include it for completeness: A spellcaster who uses disjunction on an artifact has a % chance to permanently lose all spellcasting ability.