Character Just got Nerfed,

[Ruebin Rybnik]

Hi all looking for some advice on how to handle this.
Currently in a campaign where the party is mostly all lvl 11 and recently had one of our players and DM switch. (This guy started the campaign then switched out before i joined the group at lvl 5) I am playing a lvl 11 Goliath Battle master with a +2 magic long sword i found(apparently with some form of sentience, but my PC doesn't know). Rest of party is Gnome Rogue, Elf Wizard, Human Ranger(TWF), Asimar Sorcerer.

So in our last session the new(old) DM took over. We have to track encumbrance so our rouge(STR 12) wanted a item to help him carry more and he somehow got a Belt of Cloud Giant Strength(STR 27). As the only STR build in the party my internal reaction was "What why did he find that when i was looking in the same store." But i kept that in and was like " It's fine, he doesn't use STR anyways, its just so he can carry more."
Later in the dungeon my sword stopped hitting any enemies. DM said the Sentience in the sword wouldn't allow me to hurt anything it didn't deem worthy of attack. I have no way to communicate with it or determine what it will hit( I asked). The sword worked up till this session, but DM said it was suppose to do that the whole time. I thought " Whatever i'm a Fighter, i push through." and switched to my normal sword. However all the enemies were resistant to slashing and piercing weapons, so my dpr went from 1d8+7*3(avg 34.5) to 1d8+5*3/2 (avg 14.25).
When we finally take down a big enemy with a weapon that could help the DM said I(Goliath w/ large carry capacity & STR 20) wasn't strong enough to wield it. Guess who could... Gnome Rogue.
So my fighters dpr was cut to almost 1/3, the rogue is now wielding the weapon putting his dpr at 2d6+22+sneak att (avg 50). When I mentioned how sneak att has to be made with finesse weapon DM said he has giant strength so it counts as finesse. We ended the session mid dungeon due to it being late.
I'm like my PC, but i can't help but feel like he's being nerfed arbitrarily. While at the same time the rogue is taking over the fighters role. I could really use some help on what to do?

[PeteNutButter]

So is the DM sleeping with the gnome player?

Now we only see one side here so maybe it's a bit skewed but it really seems like you are being straight hosed. Arbitrary rules that nerf you and benefit him.

The only solution here is to talk to the DM or maybe convince the rogue to let you have the belt. You can offer to carry all his stuff or even him lol.

If both of those fail, you're best bet is to quit. Something appears to be personal in the way you are being "nerfed".

[Mortis_Elrod]

Talk to them about these issues.
If that doesn't work leave the group.

If for some reason you really want to say with this group (i wouldn't looks like some favoritism at its finest with a dose of BS), then maybe MC into something more useful? let him melee it up with the ranger and you can start sniping from the back line. Whats your subclass?

Also gnomes are small right? so if the weapon is heavy then WTF? if i remember correctly it doesn't matter what your str score is for the heavy property. Also If we look at carrying capacity.

Gnome with 27 str = 405
Goliath with 20 str = 600


WTF is this DM?

[Beelzebubba]

magic long sword i found(apparently with some form of sentience, but my PC doesn't know)

DM said the Sentience in the sword wouldn't allow me to hurt anything it didn't deem worthy of attack

Strike #1.


When we finally take down a big enemy with a weapon that could help the DM said I (Goliath w/ large carry capacity & STR 20) wasn't strong enough to wield it.

Strike #2.


Guess who could... Gnome Rogue.

Strike #3.

3 strikes, he's out. Your DM is a capricious power-hungry ****.

He needs to agree to put everything back the way it was before, stop taking away things from your character ever again...or you should leave. You have better things to do than to put your fun at the hands of a capricious jerk like that before he grows up.

[mephnick]

All that is pretty dumb, but what seals it is allowing the finesse on a large weapon because of strength score. Rules and limitations exist for a reason. It sounds like this is a DM that doesn't understand how the system works.

[Corran]

Ahhh, a classic case of favouritism.

Do you have any other magic items? Or mundance but nice items that the rogue would appreciate? Then give them to him, what are you waiting for? For the DM to kill your character so that the rogue gets them from your character's dead body? Also, become the rogue's bodyguard/lackey. This will ensure that your character will live long and prosper, under the patronage of the DM's favourite character!

On a more serious note, it's really simple. Speak to the DM in front of the group about what's bohering you, and if the situation does not improve for you, then either accept it and try to roll with it, or leave. Or offer to start DM'ing instead, either immediately or when this campaign ends (assuming it's a group of friends you are playing with), and try not to repeat the same mistakes that your DM is currently doing.

[Findulidas]

Well we dont hear his side of the story, although it seems kind of bad.

[Foxhound438]

So is the DM sleeping with the gnome player?

Now we only see one side here so maybe it's a bit skewed but it really seems like you are being straight hosed. Arbitrary rules that nerf you and benefit him.

The only solution here is to talk to the DM or maybe convince the rogue to let you have the belt. You can offer to carry all his stuff or even him lol.

If both of those fail, you're best bet is to quit. Something appears to be personal in the way you are being "nerfed".

pretty much this. Tell him you're not interested in playing in a game in which you're distinctly disadvantaged in arbitrary ways.

or next time you're told you can't use your magic sword, just say OK and go get a sandwich.

[Ruebin Rybnik]

So is the DM sleeping with the gnome player?

Now we only see one side here so maybe it's a bit skewed but it really seems like you are being straight hosed. Arbitrary rules that nerf you and benefit him.

The only solution here is to talk to the DM or maybe convince the rogue to let you have the belt. You can offer to carry all his stuff or even him lol.

If both of those fail, you're best bet is to quit. Something appears to be personal in the way you are being "nerfed".


Talk to them about these issues.
If that doesn't work leave the group.

If for some reason you really want to say with this group (i wouldn't looks like some favoritism at its finest with a dose of BS), then maybe MC into something more useful? let him melee it up with the ranger and you can start sniping from the back line. Whats your subclass?

Also gnomes are small right? so if the weapon is heavy then WTF? if i remember correctly it doesn't matter what your str score is for the heavy property. Also If we look at carrying capacity.

Gnome with 27 str = 405
Goliath with 20 str = 600


WTF is this DM?

I should have mentioned it in the original post but unfortunately due to my location this is the only group, and i really love playing D&D.
As for the Belt. I am the only party member who has a Bag of Holding, spent a lot of my gold on it. I offered to trade with him which would have satisfied both of our needs, and i think more beneficial to the group as i use STR and most of his stuff is DEX. But he refused saying he found it so its his.
None of what the Rogue does bothers me so much because that's him playing his character. What really gets me is giving the tank a sentient magic weapon that wont hit any unworthy targets (described as the sword stopping before it strikes) and not allowing any way to communicate to find out why or how the sword determines who is worthy.
I don't care if the Rogue is smashing through bad guys, i just want to be standing next to him doing the same. In the end i really think the DM is making it harder on himself because now instead of a power hitter that stands there and gets hit back, he has a power hitter that is hard to target and takes half damage anyways. I will try to talk with the DM again about my sword and what if i can get it to work.

Side thought I wonder if the sword would consider the party worthy?

[suplee215]

My only question is how big the sword is supposed to be in the story and if you can find out more backstory on it an dpossibly quest to "fix it" or at least understand it. This sounds like something that could be amazingly interesting to explore but as is sounds like just a reason for the weapon not to work.

[ATHATH]

Before trying to explain your position to the DM, try explaining it to the rogue player (NOT the rouge player). If you can get him on your side, your chances of convincing the DM will improve dramatically.

And remember: No gaming is better than bad gaming. If you can't find another group or create your own group with some of the players from the previous group, you can always try to do some PbP or online stuff or something similar.

[GorogIrongut]

With the internet, there's always another group to hit up...

As for this group, every player should:
a. Roleplay their character
b. Fight to make their party gel
c. Make sure that everyone else is having fun, DM included.

While this limited window, doesn't give me enough information to point fingers at the rogue... The DM appears to be a douche nozzle. If it were me, I would start out by saying in front of the rest of the group that you understand that he was picking up and DM'ing an already started party/adventure... and that you recognize this isn't easy. As such, you'll cut him some slack and see how things pan out over the next couple sessions. But that there are some serious problems that, if unresolved, are a nonstarter for you to continue playing.

He'll probably query you as to the why's... and then you have a chance to, gently explain 90% of what's messed up. I personally would include:

--So in our last session the new(old) DM took over. We have to track encumbrance so our rouge(STR 12) wanted a item to help him carry more and he somehow got a Belt of Cloud Giant Strength(STR 27). As the only STR build in the party my internal reaction was "What why did he find that when i was looking in the same store." But i kept that in and was like " It's fine, he doesn't use STR anyways, its just so he can carry more."
Depending on investigation rolls, etc. he could have easily found it instead of you. That said, if he didn't pay through the friggin nose for that, then this is seriously messed. A bag of holding is an uncommon item and thus a LOT cheaper than this belt. If you paid a lot for a bag of holding, then he should have paid significantly more than you did. You should also have been able to offer to trade for the bag alongside the rogue. What vendor has a problem with a bidding war?

--When we finally take down a big enemy with a weapon that could help the DM said I(Goliath w/ large carry capacity & STR 20) wasn't strong enough to wield it. Guess who could... Gnome Rogue.
As has been mentioned in multiple ways... this is completely against every one of the established rules. For a DM who wants to use the encumbrance rules, this is ridiculous and so beyond the pale that I consider it inexcusable.

--So my fighters dpr was cut to almost 1/3, the rogue is now wielding the weapon putting his dpr at 2d6+22+sneak att (avg 50). When I mentioned how sneak att has to be made with finesse weapon DM said he has giant strength so it counts as finesse.
For all of the previously mentioned reasons, this is a nonstarter. Less egregious than the previous problem, but still significant.


I personally don't see a problem with your sentient weapon being problematic. That's part and parcel of having a sentient weapon and you have to roll with it. These are all kinks you will work out the more you get used to the weapon. Since you can't yet speak to the weapon yet, I'd keep using it and take careful notes of when it works and when it doesn't. This is a chance for your character to grow.

Nor do I see a problem with you fighting enemies who are resistent to slashing, etc. These are all enemies that inevitably show up and sometimes you're the one being hamstringed. Next session it may be the rogue or the wizard.

Once you've cleared the air, give them 5 sessions to sort things out. Be 'there' during those 5 sessions. Be active, engaged and helpful. Be the kind of player everyone wants to play with/for.

If after those 5 sessions, things haven't gotten better, then turn away without a second thought. You gave them every chance to play with you.

[Beelzebubba]

I personally don't see a problem with your sentient weapon being problematic. That's part and parcel of having a sentient weapon and you have to roll with it. These are all kinks you will work out the more you get used to the weapon. Since you can't yet speak to the weapon yet, I'd keep using it and take careful notes of when it works and when it doesn't. This is a chance for your character to grow.

You're missing the point.

This *just happened* one day, without warning, to nerf the player.

Then another nerf happened.

Then another.

Then amazing levels of favoritism to another player.

This isn't a DM with some grand plan or design with some dramatic resolution and interesting story. I've seen that in action before, and the key point in those cases is the player either a) had some clue that something interesting was afoot before, and b) didn't feel bad about it.

This is a player feeling bad based on a pattern of petty kick-in-the-balls decisions.

It's the DM being an immature bully.

[coredump]

This site tends to be very ..... 'protective' of potential DM over reach.

My advice is to just chill and wait. It's been one single session. And you have decided he is out to get you.....

Who knows, maybe as you get to 'know' the sword it becomes more powerful. Maybe the DM will be as 'rules lenient' with everyone as he has been with the rogue.

You don't know.... because it's only been one session before you came here to vent.

His ruling on the sword makes good sense, and sounds like a much more fun/interesting game than before. See how it plays out. Try and figure out ways to 'communicate' with the sword. Try and find leads on another Belt. Or leads on something the rogue wants so you can trade?


Curious, did you *say* you were looking for a str belt?

[JNAProductions]

This site tends to be very ..... 'protective' of potential DM over reach.

My advice is to just chill and wait. It's been one single session. And you have decided he is out to get you.....

Who knows, maybe as you get to 'know' the sword it becomes more powerful. Maybe the DM will be as 'rules lenient' with everyone as he has been with the rogue.

You don't know.... because it's only been one session before you came here to vent.

His ruling on the sword makes good sense, and sounds like a much more fun/interesting game than before. See how it plays out. Try and figure out ways to 'communicate' with the sword. Try and find leads on another Belt. Or leads on something the rogue wants so you can trade?


Curious, did you *say* you were looking for a str belt?

Except it's pretty blatant favoritism. The DM might not be as bad as the post indicates, but it really does seem like the OP is NOT having a good time.

I'll second the people saying talk to the DM. You probably do, as was suggested earlier, talk to the Rogue player first too. They might not like the favoritism either.

[Ruebin Rybnik]

This site tends to be very ..... 'protective' of potential DM over reach.

My advice is to just chill and wait. It's been one single session. And you have decided he is out to get you.....

Who knows, maybe as you get to 'know' the sword it becomes more powerful. Maybe the DM will be as 'rules lenient' with everyone as he has been with the rogue.

You don't know.... because it's only been one session before you came here to vent.

His ruling on the sword makes good sense, and sounds like a much more fun/interesting game than before. See how it plays out. Try and figure out ways to 'communicate' with the sword. Try and find leads on another Belt. Or leads on something the rogue wants so you can trade?


Curious, did you *say* you were looking for a str belt?

I would normally agree with you, as i like the idea of sentient weapons being part of a story where they could become more powerful as the PC and it become allies. However his exact words were "There is no way for you to communicate with the sword." I have no problem with the DM nerfing something for story purposes, but he has given me no means to pursue that. Also why would he make it flat out not work. I would have done something more like Any attacks on targets the sword deems unworthy are done at disadvantage.
As for the belt i didn't just say hey are there any STR belts. But as PC I asked the shop keeper what items he had to improve my fighting power. All i was shown was some +1 swords, at the time that was worse that what i had( or so i thought). The Rogue only asked for something to help him carry more stuff. A Bag of Holding definitely does that and fits more with the PC, yet he somehow finds what i was looking for.
Now if it had just been the sword i would have been eager to explore whatever quest this could lead down. With all these thing combined its hard no to feel like he was out to get me.

All this being said i have no intention of leaving the group, and i'm looking forward to what the DM might have in store for us. I can only hope that he will do something to keep me in the fight. If not then this is going to be a long 5-6 sessions, because that was only the first floor of a 9 floor dungeon he has planned.

[BillyBobShorton]

As others have said, talk it over. If DM won't budge, bail. I had a nerfy DM and refuse to ever again. Most of us get to play a few times a month at most. Our nerdy escapism is supposed to be FUN, not aggravating. If someone is depriving you of the fun for no good reason, it's becausw they're a sh*tty DM. PERIOD.

As Jake said to Roland the Gunslinger: "Let go. There are other worlds..."

[Contrast]

Just as a frame of reference a belt of cloud giants strength is listed as a legendary item, which the DMG suggests as being appropriate for level 17+ with an expected price range of 50k+. Obv in any given campaign the DM can have whatever items he wants turn up but seeming to randomly find one in the back shelf of a shop seems...a tad off to me.

As others have mentioned, a gnome should still be striking with disadvantage using heavy weapons even if the finesse requirement is being ignored which should be playing havoc with trying to get sneak attack.

My personally suggestion would be to stick with it for a few sessions while making it clear in and out of character that you're a little dishearted by the lack of team spirit from the DM and other players. The DM may have a plan but if things aren't any different you'll have to weigh up if you're still enjoying playing if it the problems are outweighing the pleasures.

[suplee215]

The str belt could simply be either DM oversight (not realizing a belt of giant strength will help you be better in combat) or random luck if he rolled to see what items are there. Also I ask what type of belt it was. If it was hill giant I don't think a fighter will find it that desirable as you should have 20 str. If it only been 1 session the sword could be a story hook he hasn't gotten to yet. I wonder, did you roll to try to communicate with it?

[jaappleton]

TC, that isn't the only group available to you.

It's 2017. You can play online, there's websites and apps designed to help you find tabletop groups, there's your FLGS....

Should all else fail, you have alternatives to playing. Don't feel like it's "poor game or no game".

[MrStabby]

Give it some in game time - several character days to understand the weapon and to see whatever other goodies get handed out. I won't rule out the DM being an arse but there may be alternatives.

1) the nerf is more bringing you in line with other players. A +2 sword is a big boost and if no one else has had a +2 weapon (or wand of warmage or rod of pact keeper etc.) it may just be down to you being the major damage dealer in previous sessions.

2) the belt may simply be down to the new DM running a more item rich game. See what other items are found in the next session. Whenever powerful items are given out, someone will be the first to receive one.

3) the sword thing may be a plot point that will resolve over time and could be fun. Don't get too twitchy over a single session not giving you what you want. Work with your DM.

4) resistant monsters? A lot of DMs only include resistant monsters if the resistance is meaningless. We're these here to spite you or a natural part of the campaign? If you were fighting a demon cult and came up against demons then ok. If you were investigating giant spiders and demons got jammed in then less ok.

5) is it a spotlight issue? Is there a character at your table who has been less effective? Maybe dealing much less damage or not getting to use their abilities? Does this give them a time to shine?

If these things persist then walk. In the short term accept that not every character is powerful all the time and that it will swing back to normal.

[Hrugner]

That's a weird cluster of changes in one player's power. I wonder if you made an enemy of the DM while he was a player.

As for what to do, I recommend just telling the DM that's it was a frustrating game for you. If he gets defensive about it right off the bat, then you should just leave the game.

[Contrast]

...the rogue is now wielding the weapon putting his dpr at 2d6+22+sneak att (avg 50).

Just rereading this - how on earth is the rogue getting a flat +22 to damage? Even assuming he has great weapon mastery (which seems a very unlikely feat for a small rogue to have picked up...) and a +8 from Strength 27 thats only +18 which means the new weapon would need to be a +4 weapon (in addition to possibly granting a free feat)?

[Lombra]

This is so terrible, portable holes are the things that rogues use to carry their stuff, not MOTHER F-ING BELTS OF GIANT STRENGTH. and you get a +2 useless sword. That DM has no clue on how to treat the players the way they should be treated.

[Unoriginal]

How did the Gnome purchase this belt?

Did they have a kingdom's worth of gold on them?

[Sir cryosin]

What you do is switch up tactics. If the DM going to Nerf your weapon. Then don't use your weapon swtich to a dodging tank and a grappler. Know a enemy prone then grapple them. They can get up because standing up take half your movement and a grappled creature has 0 movement speed. A muilticlass into rogue for expertise in Athletics or pick up one of the new skill feats that give it. With grappling and dodging your making it very hard to hit you and anyone else. Also he's wasting a turn trying or breaking the grapple. You are also giving advantage to any melee attackers which really helps for your Rogue.

[Demonslayer666]

Don't ask the DM if there's a way to talk to the sword, that's asking him for the answer to the riddle. Try different things, and keep trying. As a DM, I like players to try different things. Sometimes I don't have the answer, and allow the first clever idea to work.

Give the DM a chance to balance things out. The DM may not even realize what they are doing, and may think it's funny to hamstring the fighter. If it continues, talk to them and tell them what you find fun in a game, and your concerns.

I can't recommend quitting. Playing online isn't the same. Running your own game is not the same as playing. Try and work it out and come to an understanding.

[NecroDancer]

Could you sell the sentient sword for a regular +2 magic sword?

[Sir cryosin]

Could you sell the sentient sword for a regular +2 magic sword?

There's a big problem with that it's the DM if the DM said that the rogue found a belt of hill gaint strangh in the same magic store that the player was in looking at different things. I don't think the DM is going to play along with it. He might say something like " sorry we only have .... And ....." Or say "I can trade you this +1 dagger for the sword." .

BUT!!! I could be wrong and he gives him a +2 sword for the other +2 sword.

[Idkwhatmyscreen]

Surely your magic sword would see such a powerful rouge as being worthy of being smitten by its magic power. . .

[Vorok]

Give it some in game time - several character days to understand the weapon and to see whatever other goodies get handed out. I won't rule out the DM being an arse but there may be alternatives.

1) the nerf is more bringing you in line with other players. A +2 sword is a big boost and if no one else has had a +2 weapon (or wand of warmage or rod of pact keeper etc.) it may just be down to you being the major damage dealer in previous sessions.



Are you implying that a +2 sword is a big boost in the same game where a gnome rogue just got a Belt that sets his attack bonus and dmg at +8 (before any other bonuses and proficiencies) for any melee attacks? (Also for any and all athletic checks.)



5) is it a spotlight issue? Is there a character at your table who has been less effective? Maybe dealing much less damage or not getting to use their abilities? Does this give them a time to shine?



I am not a DM, but surely there are better ways to shift the focus and allow others to shine other than basically saying 'Well, your character is now useless, try to have fun'.

[Unoriginal]

Don't ask the DM if there's a way to talk to the sword, that's asking him for the answer to the riddle.

What makes you think there is a riddle?

[KorvinStarmast]

It sounds like this is a DM that doesn't understand how the system works. There's a lot of that going around.

Tell him you're not interested in playing in a game in which you're distinctly disadvantaged in arbitrary ways. {snip} or next time you're told you can't use your magic sword, just say OK and go get a sandwich. And get into a dialogue with your DM regarding how you can communicate with a sentient sword. Most of them have a kind of telepathy ...

I will try to talk with the DM again about my sword and what if i can get it to work. That is step 1. After than, if you get the big "up yours" it may be time to find another DM.
Before trying to explain your position to the DM, try explaining it to the rogue player (NOT the rouge player). If you can get him on your side, your chances of convincing the DM will improve dramatically. And remember: No gaming is better than bad gaming. This.

This *just happened* one day, without warning, to nerf the player.
Then another nerf happened. Then another. Then amazing levels of favoritism to another player.
Red Flags galore, indeed.

Make sure the DM understands your desire to grow as a character rather than be nerfed.

[RazorChain]

So is the DM sleeping with the gnome player?

Now we only see one side here so maybe it's a bit skewed but it really seems like you are being straight hosed. Arbitrary rules that nerf you and benefit him.

The only solution here is to talk to the DM or maybe convince the rogue to let you have the belt. You can offer to carry all his stuff or even him lol.

If both of those fail, you're best bet is to quit. Something appears to be personal in the way you are being "nerfed".



I suggest that the OP starts sleeping with the DM, might help him become the player favorite. Else he can resort to bribery like the rest of us

[Corran]

Ok, here is a thought. We've all must have seen threads that go like ''the group is thinking that my GWM barbarian or fighter is overhadowing everyone in combat, and I am thinking of rebuilding/ making another character''. So what if this is happening in the op's case, and the DM is just trying to fix a problem but in a completelly wrong way? Perhaps it would make even more sense if the rogue was the only other martial.




I suggest that the OP starts sleeping with the DM, might help him become the player favorite. Else he can resort to bribery like the rest of us
Hey!!!! This is a completelly false and unnecessary generalization. I am insulted!
I personally choose to buy the DM's favourite snack for them, only because my DM's are always such nice people!:smalltongue:

[furby076]

Strike #1.



Strike #2.



Strike #3.

3 strikes, he's out. Your DM is a capricious power-hungry ****.

He needs to agree to put everything back the way it was before, stop taking away things from your character ever again...or you should leave. You have better things to do than to put your fun at the hands of a capricious jerk like that before he grows up.


Nah. The DM needs to leave. The DM manages the gameworld...that doesnt make him the manager of the group.

[Princess]

Talk to the DM about your concerns, as well as the player of the gnome if needed. Be polite, present your argument as objectively as you can, and await a response. If you receive hostility or arrogance, you've established that your DM is evil and can choose to talk to the whole group about it, look for a better DM to play with, and/or SMITE HIM*.

*Check local laws before smiting anyone in any way. Smiter assumes all risks associated with smiting.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Ok, here is a thought. We've all must have seen threads that go like ''the group is thinking that my GWM barbarian or fighter is overhadowing everyone in combat, and I am thinking of rebuilding/ making another character''. So what if this is happening in the op's case, and the DM is just trying to fix a problem but in a completelly wrong way? Perhaps it would make even more sense if the rogue was the only other martial.

The OP specified that he was wielding a longsword. He could be using it two-handed, but it's more likely that he's using sword 'n board.

Which frankly makes the damage nerfs even more obtuse. Dueling style certainly isn't lacking, but a battle master fighter with a longsword won't be topping most damage charts. And even if he was, the appropriate answer from the DM would be talking to his player about it.

It's a personal stinging point for me. I've watched bad DM's punish players they didn't like in ways like this. Give him one more session, but after that he's not worth the benefit of the doubt anymore. Talking it out with someone willing to do this without talking to you in the first place is a waste of breath in my experience.

[Sigreid]

The sword thing is actually why I don't like intelligent weapons and won't use them. Rather leave the uber weapon where I found it than put up with intelligent weapon bs.

[Ruebin Rybnik]

I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and advice on this. I am definitely going to entering the next session with an open mind and see what come to be naturally. If the same things start happening then i will be asking the DM about it, probably in front of the group.
Also i fully understand that you guys only have what i tell you (ie my side of the story) and that there may be things the DM is planning. Which is why i will be still be playing. However there are certain things i did not mention because i wanted to get responses that were as objective as possible.
The Group plays again on Sunday after which i will be posting an update for any who wish to know. Once again thank you to all posters both for and against the DMs actions.

[Saiga]

If you're playing again Sunday, I think it's worth trying to talk to your DM beforehand about the issues you are having. If you don't speak up, these issues could continue to get worse until they just become too much of a problem to resolve. And that would be a shame.

[Sir cryosin]

The sword thing is actually why I don't like intelligent weapons and won't use them. Rather leave the uber weapon where I found it than put up with intelligent weapon bs.

Excalibur..... Excalibur..... Excalibur...... Eeeexxcalibuuurrrrrrrrrrr!!!

[agnos]

The bad news is the new DM is an idiot. A belt of Storm Giant's Strength is ever something one should be able to buy. I strongly suggest stop being a tank. Bide your time and find the right moment to backstab the rogue and then steal the belt.

[suplee215]

The bad news is the new DM is an idiot. A belt of Storm Giant's Strength is ever something one should be able to buy. I strongly suggest stop being a tank. Bide your time and find the right moment to backstab the rogue and then steal the belt.

WHy? just because he got a better magic item you should give up on any character personality you might have and into PVP murder hobo for better loot?

[Demonslayer666]

What makes you think there is a riddle?

There may not be one, but you should try and figure it out rather than ask for the answer, which seemed like the case here.

Even if the DM flat out told me there was no way to talk to the sword, I would assume they meant that there is no apparent way to talk to it. It is sentient, and is obviously aware of it's surroundings, so it is simply refusing to talk to you or maybe the DM doesn't have a predetermined solution. That's where trying lots of stuff would help. It can control your arm and stop you from swinging it, so there's a way to communicate right there.

[Arial Black]

Next time you cross a bridge, say that something feels wrong. You have a suspicion that the bridge is not level, and that this is a clue to a hidden danger.

"Seems level to me! What are you on about?"

Say you'll prove it. Tie a string around the pommel of your sentient sword and hang it over the side of the bridge like a plumb-line. If the bridge is level then the sword will be at a right angle to the bridge, but if the bridge is not level then it will not be a right angle.

"Does the free hanging sword make a right angle with the bridge, DM?"

"Of course it does! Stop wasting everyone's time!"

"Okay, I let go of the string. What happens to the sword?"

At this point, the sword should fall under the influence of gravity. If so, victory! You have just cleverly rid yourself of a cursed sword. Your normal sword might be doing half damage, but this sentient sword is doing no damage! Best get rid.

The string/plumb-line thing is a way to avoid the sentient weapon taking control of the 'wielder' since you aren't wielding it. :smallsmile:

If the sword hangs in the air, levitating, or does something other than fall, then you are finally interacting with the damn thing and getting information about it. It might even deign to speak to you.

[agnos]

WHy? just because he got a better magic item you should give up on any character personality you might have and into PVP murder hobo for better loot?
His character could be evil. I didn't say it's a great solution, but it's the solution I'd take. This DM is a ****. I'd find a way to best off-track any DM plans/storylines. Plus, there's zero chance I'd be ok as a player with this type of **** coming from a DM. You put items on who gets the most advantage (party-wise). If I were the rogue, I'd have bought it and given it to the tank in a heartbeat and then told him to carry all my **** that I didn't want to. That lets him take feats to be tankier, do more damage, and draw more focus; in short do his role better. When a game becomes this unbalanced with items and dm favor, the only sensible thing is to leave in the most amazing way ever.

[Orion3T]

It could be that the DM didn't plan this much and the items were generated randomly.

Even then, I think it's the rogue player who should be recognising they have lucked in and that their stuff suits the fighter better. They should be offering some sort of trade; maybe the rogue can talk to the sword?

In fact - is it possible that was the DMs whole idea? The rogue has stuff the fighter wants and the fighter has something that's great for the rogue but doesn't know it. If your characters talk to each other maybe they can some to an understanding? Fighter can offer the sword in exchange for the belt and see what happens. Maybe the DM thought there wasn't enough PC interaction and was actually trying to set up a situation which could only be resolved by players and/or PCs talking to each oher?

Maybe the sentient sword has both a strong bonus to hit, plus finesse? Which would make it extremely desireable for the rogue. But he won't get that benefit unless he shows willing to cooperate with the fighter.

If that's the case then it makes sense of the DMs slightly odd decisions. It's a generous interpretation, true. But better to give the benefit of the doubt?

After all, it's not up to the DM who gets to use what. And there's really no obligation that they give the items directly to the player most optimised to use them. And not doing so could certainly be interesting because it could encourage the players to talk/RP with each other and work as a team.

Talk to the rogue player about having your PCs interact and disuss the situation in-character. Try to come to an agreement that the rogue gets to try the sentient sword while you hold onto their weapon (which they will want back, but you can't use so it's a 'safe' exchange). I'm assuming the rogue has some sort of selfish streak and maybe trust issues. If not, the situation is much easier. If it turns out the ogue is better off with that sword then they should give you the belt to complete the exchange. Everyone's a winner!

[Sigreid]

I'll just say that if I were the Rogue I wouldn't give up the belt either. It sounds like the DM is playing favorites but that doesn't obligate the player to reduce his character in an attempt to be fair.

[agnos]

I'll just say that if I were the Rogue I wouldn't give up the belt either. It sounds like the DM is playing favorites but that doesn't obligate the player to reduce his character in an attempt to be fair.
It's not an attempt to be fair. That's not the point. At most, a rogue gets +12 damage from the belt via TWF (assuming started with +3 decks mod). The same Fighter can easily make +48 from it (assume +3 stat mod and GWF). It gets bigger if he wielded a polearm and had PAM OR if GWF triggers on a crit/kill. Sure you can be greedy, but there's not a real point to gimping your team's damage by buffing your damage.

[Sigreid]

It's not an attempt to be fair. That's not the point. At most, a rogue gets +12 damage from the belt via TWF (assuming started with +3 decks mod). The same Fighter can easily make +48 from it (assume +3 stat mod and GWF). It gets bigger if he wielded a polearm and had PAM OR if GWF triggers on a crit/kill. Sure you can be greedy, but there's not a real point to gimping your team's damage by buffing your damage.
The Rogue also befits from better grapple checks, improved climbing ability, better jumping, etc. The fighter does get more damage out of it, but a lot of thieving can benefit from higher strength.

[Coidzor]

So why do the other people in this group hate you? Did you sleep with someone's sister and then break up?


I'll just say that if I were the Rogue I wouldn't give up the belt either. It sounds like the DM is playing favorites but that doesn't obligate the player to reduce his character in an attempt to be fair.

No, the obligation is far more encompassing than the limited scope you're hyperfocusing on.

If the DM is being specifically and deliberately ****ty to a player, you and the rest of the group have an obligation to call him out on it if you're not colluding with him in being a bunch of *******s who try to run someone out of a game instead of using their words to kick them from the game or trying to work out the underlying issue.


It could be that the DM didn't plan this much and the items were generated randomly.

Horse Pucky. You don't retroactively randomly generate an item so that it screws over the player who has been using it for months now.


If that's the case then it makes sense of the DMs slightly odd decisions. It's a generous interpretation, true. But better to give the benefit of the doubt?

No, even if that's the case, the DM is being a reprobate if OP is even halfway showing the information correctly.


The bad news is the new DM is an idiot. A belt of Storm Giant's Strength is ever something one should be able to buy. I strongly suggest stop being a tank. Bide your time and find the right moment to backstab the rogue and then steal the belt.

The problem is that the rest of the group and the DM aren't being upfront with OP.

Trying to kill the Rogue and then getting ganked by the rest of the party doesn't achieve anything.

Well, I suppose if they were looking for a pretext to kick him from the game but couldn't openly do so for some strange reason, this would give them the pretext to kick him so that OP would then know that, yeah, they were looking to get rid of him.

[Sigreid]

Wow cokdzor. I never said anything about picking on the guy or not pointing out to the DM he's being unreasonable. I simply said I will not surrender an it to another player because they think it's better for them. Frankly, for all we know the OP is the selfish ass hat. I'm not saying he is. I have know way of knowing having only heard what he's upset about from his knot hole. There's no moral high ground here in the peanut gallery.

And if things are tremendously unfair the advice is always the same. Bring it up with the group and then decide if you can live with the result or should leave the table.

Edit: Sorry for screwing up your name. Stupid smartphone.

[GlenSmash!]

As a player I would be fine with the Sentient Sword stuff. There could be a good story there.

As a DM, I would never give an item to a Rogue that makes them a better Fighter than the Fighter. That's a perfect way to ensure that one player is not having fun, which is clearly what's happening here.

At the table I DM for my Rule 0 is this: if you are not having fun bring it up to the group in an OoC discussion, so we can all work together to fix it. Everyone needs to be having fun.

So that's my advice. Talk it out.

[Occasional Sage]

I'm curious about this DM handing the position over previously; is he inexperienced?

It could be that he is unaware of how his actions appear to the player(s), or how they are affecting the play experience. Does he have a GitP account, or would he sign up for one? I'd be very interested to hear his side of things.

[Spore]

The sword thing is actually why I don't like intelligent weapons and won't use them. Rather leave the uber weapon where I found it than put up with intelligent weapon bs.

Agreed. Take the weapon from your gnome friend's hands. Then follow up with the words: "A weapon that cannot defend its owner is not only useless but dangerous. This vile magical creation is best contained and sealed away." Then throw it down a chasm.

No really. Imagine in character if your only weapon decides it would rather be not fighting those goons because its too boring this way. You would doubt ever using magical weapons again. Remember your character knows of the arcane but I personally wouldn't risk my life to dabble with the fickle arts.

[Ruebin Rybnik]

Alright everyone, so here's what happened.
I went in open minded like i said. I essentially trial and error my way into learning what my sword wanted. Literally i attack a tree-sword stops me, attack wagon-stopped, attack our horse-stopped, bandit stopped, werewolf... i feel the sword pull my arm into the attack. The sort of it i can't talk to the sword but i have learned the it doesn't like things that are unnatural or evil and does lots of damage to them(+2 att & +5 dmg). Really awesome, I just can't use it on everything. We do tend run into a decent amount of things i can target with the sword in our campaign.

Now for the other issue. I think the DM might have realized what he did with the Rouge. He didn't ret-con giving the belt or weapon last session, probably because that would make the rogue feel put out. However what he did do is that he could not sneak attack with the weapon due to it not being finesse, also the weapon has the fragile property.
So Rogue gets a super weapon that might break, and i get one that only works sometimes. This feels much more balanced than last time. I am not so worried about the rogue having the belt. Maybe i can find one of my own latter or even acquire something the rogue would be interested in trading for. Time will tell.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[Sigreid]

I guess you have a free detect evil. Just take a swing at anything or anyone you're suspicious of. If their head comes off, they were evil. 😂

[Hypersmith]

Maybe DM just really messed up, hope it all works out

[Mikemical]

I would normally agree with you, as i like the idea of sentient weapons being part of a story where they could become more powerful as the PC and it become allies. However his exact words were "There is no way for you to communicate with the sword." I have no problem with the DM nerfing something for story purposes, but he has given me no means to pursue that. Also why would he make it flat out not work. I would have done something more like Any attacks on targets the sword deems unworthy are done at disadvantage.

I've played with sentient weapons before. NEVER have I ever had to deal with one that refuses to attack "unworthy" targets when you're fighting for survival. And I've played a lot of characters, from LG to CE with intelligent weapons(Exordius being the most prominent one).

As for the DM going back on the whole favoritism: Good for you, still, you're all relying on him not suddenly going "Your weapon breaks" or "the target is unworthy" while fighting a dragon.

[GorogIrongut]

Alright everyone, so here's what happened.
I went in open minded like i said. I essentially trial and error my way into learning what my sword wanted. Literally i attack a tree-sword stops me, attack wagon-stopped, attack our horse-stopped, bandit stopped, werewolf... i feel the sword pull my arm into the attack. The sort of it i can't talk to the sword but i have learned the it doesn't like things that are unnatural or evil and does lots of damage to them(+2 att & +5 dmg). Really awesome, I just can't use it on everything. We do tend run into a decent amount of things i can target with the sword in our campaign.

Now for the other issue. I think the DM might have realized what he did with the Rouge. He didn't ret-con giving the belt or weapon last session, probably because that would make the rogue feel put out. However what he did do is that he could not sneak attack with the weapon due to it not being finesse, also the weapon has the fragile property.
So Rogue gets a super weapon that might break, and i get one that only works sometimes. This feels much more balanced than last time. I am not so worried about the rogue having the belt. Maybe i can find one of my own latter or even acquire something the rogue would be interested in trading for. Time will tell.

Thanks again for all the advice.

These are all positive signs. I would expect him to wind it back a little bit farther over the next few sessions because that belt is still ridiculous. Just imagine a rogue with expertise in athletics going on a grappling spree. He'd destroy everything.

My opinion of your DM has gone from him being a d bag, to being inexperienced and in need of assistance. Be helpful and things should go well.

[Orion3T]

Alright everyone, so here's what happened.
I went in open minded like i said. I essentially trial and error my way into learning what my sword wanted. Literally i attack a tree-sword stops me, attack wagon-stopped, attack our horse-stopped, bandit stopped, werewolf... i feel the sword pull my arm into the attack. The sort of it i can't talk to the sword but i have learned the it doesn't like things that are unnatural or evil and does lots of damage to them(+2 att & +5 dmg). Really awesome, I just can't use it on everything. We do tend run into a decent amount of things i can target with the sword in our campaign.

Now for the other issue. I think the DM might have realized what he did with the Rouge. He didn't ret-con giving the belt or weapon last session, probably because that would make the rogue feel put out. However what he did do is that he could not sneak attack with the weapon due to it not being finesse, also the weapon has the fragile property.
So Rogue gets a super weapon that might break, and i get one that only works sometimes. This feels much more balanced than last time. I am not so worried about the rogue having the belt. Maybe i can find one of my own latter or even acquire something the rogue would be interested in trading for. Time will tell.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Glad to hear it's all working out; as I said n my previous post it doesn't help anyone to assume the worst. The DM just seems inexperienced.

What he should do is let you find something that's a great fit for the rogue, so you can do a fair trade for the belt (and other sword if it's not broken!).

Not letting you attack with the sword at all is a bit weird though, especially since you won't know until you try it so will be wasting actions; disadvantage and no bonus to attacks and damage would make more sense. Or just no bonus (otherwise it's annoying, you might need to keep swapping weapons). Since it's sentient it should in principle be open to discussion, if you can ever find a way to understand each other.

Good luck!

[Hrugner]

Alright everyone, so here's what happened.
I went in open minded like i said. I essentially trial and error my way into learning what my sword wanted. Literally i attack a tree-sword stops me, attack wagon-stopped, attack our horse-stopped, bandit stopped, werewolf... i feel the sword pull my arm into the attack. The sort of it i can't talk to the sword but i have learned the it doesn't like things that are unnatural or evil and does lots of damage to them(+2 att & +5 dmg). Really awesome, I just can't use it on everything. We do tend run into a decent amount of things i can target with the sword in our campaign.

Now for the other issue. I think the DM might have realized what he did with the Rouge. He didn't ret-con giving the belt or weapon last session, probably because that would make the rogue feel put out. However what he did do is that he could not sneak attack with the weapon due to it not being finesse, also the weapon has the fragile property.
So Rogue gets a super weapon that might break, and i get one that only works sometimes. This feels much more balanced than last time. I am not so worried about the rogue having the belt. Maybe i can find one of my own latter or even acquire something the rogue would be interested in trading for. Time will tell.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Talk to the DM about using the sword to detect these creatures. If the sword won't attack someone who isn't evil or unnatural you could just go around trying to hit people and see what happened, but the sword may be able to let you know somehow without the full swing.

It sounds like the game is going a bit better. Glad things worked out better than most of us thought.

[Hackulator]

I guess you have a free detect evil. Just take a swing at anything or anyone you're suspicious of. If their head comes off, they were evil. 😂

This is actually INCREDIBLY overpowered in 5e since Detect Evil no longer actually exists.

Think a guy might actually be an evil member of a secret cult? Swing your sword at him.

Thing a guy might be a demon in disguise? Swing your sword at him.

[Spore]

This is actually INCREDIBLY overpowered in 5e since Detect Evil no longer actually exists.

Think a guy might actually be an evil member of a secret cult? Swing your sword at him.

Thing a guy might be a demon in disguise? Swing your sword at him.

This has witch trial written all over it though.....

[Waterdeep Merch]

This has witch trial written all over it though.....

The witch trials would've been a lot more credible if the trial and execution method only did anything if they really were a witch.

It's good to hear the DM just flubbed. It happens sometimes. And since he seems to know he flubbed, he's starting to make things right. He might've made some bad decisions earlier, but that's the sign of a good DM.

[Hackulator]

This has witch trial written all over it though.....

Spend time using your magic sword to root out evil.

Become known far and wide as a great hero and enemy of evil.

Gain the love and support of the common people.

Have a non-sentient copy of your sword created.

Murder whoever you want, obviously they are evil if the sword killed them, the people will support you.

Kill all who oppose you.

Become god emperor of the world.

[Bladeyeoman]

This is actually INCREDIBLY overpowered in 5e since Detect Evil no longer actually exists.

Think a guy might actually be an evil member of a secret cult? Swing your sword at him.

Thing a guy might be a demon in disguise? Swing your sword at him.

Actually, can't Paladins use Divine Sense? Doesn't determine alignment of person, but it does identify undead and fiends (and celestials).

[Hackulator]

Actually, can't Paladins use Divine Sense? Doesn't determine alignment of person, but it does identify undead and fiends (and celestials).

Yes, but that is not detect evil.

[Hrugner]

Spend time using your magic sword to root out evil.

Become known far and wide as a great hero and enemy of evil.

Gain the love and support of the common people.

Have a non-sentient copy of your sword created.

Murder whoever you want, obviously they are evil if the sword killed them, the people will support you.

Kill all who oppose you.

Become god emperor of the world.

The twist being this is the sword's plan. Pretend not to be able to attack anyone who isn't evil or unnatural, then just kill whomever once the PC gets over confident in the sword's ability.

[Hackulator]

The twist being this is the sword's plan. Pretend not to be able to attack anyone who isn't evil or unnatural, then just kill whomever once the PC gets over confident in the sword's ability.

I like this too.