Aegis VMC

[keeper2161]

Anyone have official source for Aegis VMC rules?

[digiman619]

Sorry, but as far as I can tell, there are no official VMC rules for any of DSP's classes. Pity, really.

[keeper2161]

That sucks. So this is my Aegis VMC then.

Level 1: You gain the Form Astral Suit class feature and gain customization points equal to a Aegis of half your character level.

Level 3: You gain the Reconfigure class feature.

Level 7: You gain an additional Reconfigure. You also gain a 2/- damage reduction.

Level 11: You gain the Augment Suit class feature.

Level 15: You gain the Cannibalize Suit class feature 2/day.

Level 19: You gain an additional Cannibalize and a additional 2/- damage reduction. You also gain an additional 2/day Reconfigure.

I figured if the VMC aegis were to gain equal customization points to a normal aegis there would be no reason to even go into the Aegis class. This way you still get 14 customization points. The Aegis doesn't have that many class features. They pretty much have the 5 class features and throughout the 20 levels increases them slowly. I tried to keep it at about half as effected as a normal Aegis.

[Psyren]

I'd limit a VMC Aegis to no more than two Reconfigures per day; once to take care of something situational and once to change back. They should be depending on their primary class for most issues that arise.

I would not give a VMC Aegis Augment Suit, as that feature depends on something the character may not even have (i.e. power points.) I would give them Craftsman+Master Craftsman, or Astral Repair instead.

I would not let them take customizations that require expending PP.

[Milo v3]

That sucks. So this is my Aegis VMC then.

Level 1: You gain the Form Astral Suit class feature and gain customization points equal to a Aegis of half your character level.

Level 3: You gain the Reconfigure class feature.

Level 7: You gain an additional Reconfigure. You also gain a 2/- damage reduction.

Level 11: You gain the Augment Suit class feature.

Level 15: You gain the Cannibalize Suit class feature 2/day.

Level 19: You gain an additional Cannibalize and a additional 2/- damage reduction. You also gain an additional 2/day Reconfigure.

I figured if the VMC aegis were to gain equal customization points to a normal aegis there would be no reason to even go into the Aegis class. This way you still get 14 customization points. The Aegis doesn't have that many class features. They pretty much have the 5 class features and throughout the 20 levels increases them slowly. I tried to keep it at about half as effected as a normal Aegis.

That is much more powerful than VMC are meant to be (they aren't meant to even give an ability at first level).

[digiman619]

Here's my Aegis VMC:
Aegis
Wild Talent: At 1st level, he gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat.
Astral Suit: At 3rd level, he may summon an astral skin and astral armor as per the astral suit class feature, but has no customization points to enhance it. Furthermore, they gain no free customizations at higher levels.
Astral Juggernaut: At 7th level.he may summon an astral armor as per the astral suit class feature, but has no customization points to enhance it. Furthermore, they gain no free customizations at higher levels.

Free Customizations: At 11th level, his astral armor gains the free customizations of an aegis his level -5.
Customization: At 15th level, he gets 1 customization point to spend on his astral armor, regardless of form.
Improved Customization: At 19th level, he gets 1 additional customization point to spend on his astral armor, regardless of form.

[grarrrg]

That is much more powerful than VMC are meant to be (they aren't meant to even give an ability at first level).

Not entirely true.
There are plenty that give something at 1st level, although most of these are more 'penalty/restriction' than actual 'bonus/ability'.

The bonus side is pretty much limited to Cleric's getting Spontaneous Cure/Inflict, and Oracle's Curse bonuses.

Penalties:
Any class with a 'code' must start following it (Druid, Paladin, Cavalier, etc...)
Oracle's Curse
Cleric/Inquisitor 'alignment casting'

Other:
Wizard/Sorcerer/Witch/Oracle must choose their School/Bloodline/Patron/Mystery right away, even if it does nothing (and I'm pretty sure choosing a Witch Patron never actually does anything)

[keeper2161]

The whole point of the aegis is the astral suit. Without it the VMC is worthless.

[Psyren]

The whole point of the aegis is the astral suit. Without it the VMC is worthless.

Well yeah, and I don't think anyone here disagreed with that. But it should be weaker, much like a VMC Summoner's eidolon is weaker.

[keeper2161]

Which is why I thought to give it half of basically everything. Plus astral suit is what makes the aegi.. Gaining it at level 1 makes sense. Seeing as how it wouldn't gain more customization points until level 4. You get the meat of the class but you are no where near as good as a regular class.

[Milo v3]

Which is why I thought to give it half of basically everything. Plus astral suit is what makes the aegi.. Gaining it at level 1 makes sense. Seeing as how it wouldn't gain more customization points until level 4. You get the meat of the class but you are no where near as good as a regular class.
VMC isn't meant to give half. Each ability is meant to only be worth about a feat, and you're not meant to give it at first level because that means they are getting benefits without spending anything.

Also, saying "It shouldn't have a giant benefit at first level since VMC aren't meant to really have anything at first level aside from restrictions and choices that don't do anything yet" != "The VMC shouldn't get an astral suit ability". It just means you move it to third level.

[Eldaran]

A VMC costs 5 feats, if you're getting 15-20 feats of value for it, it's way too strong. It could reasonably be worth more than 5 feats, like 6-7 feats in value, since you're giving up flexibility. But half customizations, reconfigure, augment, these are worth a ton of feats. Extra Customization gives 1 point for a feat.

[Psyren]

VMC isn't meant to give half. Each ability is meant to only be worth about a feat, and you're not meant to give it at first level because that means they are getting benefits without spending anything.

Also, saying "It shouldn't have a giant benefit at first level since VMC aren't meant to really have anything at first level aside from restrictions and choices that don't do anything yet" != "The VMC shouldn't get an astral suit ability". It just means you move it to third level.

Agreed - I would let the suit be the first thing you get, but not until 3rd level.


A VMC costs 5 feats, if you're getting 15-20 feats of value for it, it's way too strong. It could reasonably be worth more than 5 feats, like 6-7 feats in value, since you're giving up flexibility. But half customizations, reconfigure, augment, these are worth a ton of feats. Extra Customization gives 1 point for a feat.

If you're using the "Extra X" feats to compare, then VMC Magus gets a pool that is worth at least 8 feats. Not saying I disagree, just saying that you can't really do a numerical side-by-side like that.

Also, remember that not every feature the VMC gives you has to be worth a feat. Some can be stronger (like VMC Cleric's Domain), some can be weaker (like VMC Barb's DR), and some can be equal (like VMC Magus' Arcana), but overall they should be roughly in line with one another.

What I would personally do is give the VMC Aegis a smaller pool, and limit the customizations they can choose from, much like Oracle VMC forces you to use specific revelations. At a glance, I would ban any customization that requires spending PP, which throws out things like implanting power stones but still lets you boost your AC and size and other useful things.

[grarrrg]

and some can be equal (like most of the gunslinger

Fixed to the most accurate example for you ;)