What to do after all 7 levels of Nar Demonbinder

[RoboEmperor]

Through some recent revelations about entry entry shenanigans, this class caught my interest again.

Aasimar
Sorcerer 7/Nar Demonbinder 7

ACF Planar Sorcerer (Knowledge: the planes as cross class skill). I'm gonna sacrifice a great deal of concentration to level it as a cross class skill.

Feats
1 Versatile Spellcaster - Early Entry
1F Heighten Spell - Early Entry
1F Eschew Materials - Fluff
3 Spell Focus (Conjuration) - Prerequisite
6 Iron Will - Prerequisite
9 Infernal Bargainer - +2 hd limit on Planar Binding
12 Practiced Spellcaster - Recover Caster level loss from taking marshal and DD.
15 ???
18 ???

Flaws: Noncombatant, Pathetic: Strength

That's some real nice early planar binding access. Level 8 for lesser planar binding, 10 for planar binding, and 14 for greater planar binding. 3,000xp buy off for +2 cha and access to infernal bargainer is also worth it.

What to do after level 14? Just throw in sorcerer prestige classes until it catches up in epic levels?

My planar binding strategy for this character is extremely simple. Win the Charisma Check.

edit: Current plan is to go 1 level in Marshal for the minor aura: Motivate Charisma, which adds my charisma modifier to all my charisma checks which is huge for planar binding, and 5 levels into Dragon Disciple for +4 bonus level 8 spells per day.
Sorcerer7/NarDemonbinder7/Marshal1/DragonDisciple5

With more than one level 8 spell per day, I can use versatile spellcaster to qualify for Epic Spellcasting.

[Rebel7284]

Not quite progressing, but check out eldrich master class.

[Calthropstu]

I would recommend grabbing the following:
You can add +2 cha by binding a succubus.
Another +5 from a manual for an additional 7. That puts you at a good 33. Add 6 from an item now you're at 39. If you can manage 1 more that's an even 40.
Also, the circlet of persuasion adds +3 flat out to the check. Between the 40 cha adding +15 and the +3 from the circlet you have a massive advantage over any outsider.

[RoboEmperor]

You can add +2 cha by binding a succubus.

How does a succubus give me +2 cha?

[Calthropstu]

How does a succubus give me +2 cha?

Oops, that's only in pathfinder. Nvm. In pathfinder, a succubus has the ability to grant a +2 cha as a profane bonus. Thought it was 3.5 too, but just checked and it's not.

[Grim Reader]

Sand Shaper ? Nar Demonbilder spell list is kind of skinny.

[lbuttitta]

Oops, that's only in pathfinder. Nvm. In pathfinder, a succubus has the ability to grant a +2 cha as a profane bonus. Thought it was 3.5 too, but just checked and it's not.
Although, according to the possession rules from the Book of Vile Darkness, a possessing evil-aligned outsider (which could be bound to that service) can grant a +4 profane bonus to any ability.

[Thurbane]

Dragon Disciple, to get extra 8th level spell slots?

[RoboEmperor]

Dragon Disciple, to get extra 8th level spell slots?

lol lol lol lol lol

This, this is the first character I've ever seen capable of fully participating in epic level play without a full (effective) 20 in a spellcasting class.

Alrighty, so 6 levels in dragon disciple will net 5 more level 8 spells per day. hehehehehe

I still want Stone to flesh and wall of stone for animate dead for when I eventually get ignore material components. Something to think about hmm...

I'll probably just turn my character into an incubus upon reaching level 20 for immortality and at-will greater teleport and ethereal jaunt, so going 6 dragon disciple would probably the best at least until his transformation.

[Vaz]

Just take 2 levels, with 2 levels of Ur Priest, and then Mystic Theurge?

How do you get into nar demonbinder with Sorc 7 though?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Given that you're not actually caring about CL, a level of Marshal for Motivate Charisma might not be a terrible idea. I'll also second the Sandshaper dip; there's some decent BFC and save-or-die on there.

[RoboEmperor]

Just take 2 levels, with 2 levels of Ur Priest, and then Mystic Theurge?

How do you get into nar demonbinder with Sorc 7 though?



Q: Can a sorcerer combine Versatile Spellcasting with a metamagic feat to cast a spell whose level is higher than the level of spells he’d normally be able to cast?

A: This is possible. For example, a 1st level sorcerer using the Versatile Spellcaster feat can give up two 1st-level spells to cast extended shield.

This is what got me started on all this again. Official wizards ruling is that you can cast a spell of higher level you normally can't using Versatile Spellcaster. If you can use it for extend metamagic, nothing is stopping you from using heighten metamagic.

As a result you can cast a spell heightened to level 4 by using two level 3 spell slots, which means you are able to cast a level 4 spell, which lets you qualify for the requirements of the prestige class.

The only thing you can't cheat is the 10 ranks in Knowledge (The Planes), which is why level 7 is the minimum level you can enter.


Given that you're not actually caring about CL, a level of Marshal for Motivate Charisma might not be a terrible idea. I'll also second the Sandshaper dip; there's some decent BFC and save-or-die on there.

Goddamn it I forgot about CL. I need good CL to beat SR of monsters I'm trying to call. Hmm, but more spell slots are also important.

Marshal is awesome! Charisma modifier added to charisma is like a 100% increase in charisma

edit:Practiced spellcaster rectifies CL problem. Yay!

[remetagross]

The only thing you can't cheat is the 10 ranks in Knowledge (The Planes), which is why level 7 is the minimum level you can enter.

Actually there is a (very cheesy) way to cheat through skill requirements: pay a 9th level Bard NPC to sing Inspire Greatness on you just as you level from 4 to 5: the 2 temporary HDs you get mean that at the moment you get to allocate your new skill points, your skill cap is 5 + 2 + 3 = 10. Bam, you qualify from level 5 (you still need to wait until 6 for the spell level requirement though).

[RoboEmperor]

Actually there is a (very cheesy) way to cheat through skill requirements: pay a 9th level Bard NPC to sing Inspire Greatness on you just as you level from 4 to 5: the 2 temporary HDs you get mean that at the moment you get to allocate your new skill points, your skill cap is 5 + 2 + 3 = 10. Bam, you qualify from level 5 (you still need to wait until 6 for the spell level requirement though).

You need to rest to level up, meaning at least for aasimar you will be deaf and lose the bonus. Dunno about elves.

[remetagross]

You need to rest to level up, meaning at least for aasimar you will be deaf and lose the bonus. Dunno about elves.

Never noticed that! Though when you're asleep you're not deaf you just take a -10 to Listen. Don't know if by RAW that wouldn't mean that you still count as hearing the music...

Other option: a Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle to get the Open Minded feat at level 6 while you're awake and under the effect of the bardic music, and then you can allocate the 5 extra skill points as wanted.

[RoboEmperor]

Never noticed that! Though when you're asleep you're not deaf you just take a -10 to Listen. Don't know if by RAW that wouldn't mean that you still count as hearing the music...

Other option: a Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle to get the Open Minded feat at level 6 while you're awake and under the effect of the bardic music, and then you can allocate the 5 extra skill points as wanted.

I mean, you're inspired to greatness right? Hard to be inspired when you're unconscious. Anyways I'm not gonna do that, because like you said, it's super cheesy XD.

[Rebel7284]

Codex Anathema allows you to break skill rank cap. Don't remember is knowledge the planes is on the list though.

Edit: it does. Now all you need is a way to get extra wealth above your WBL

[RoboEmperor]

Codex Anathema allows you to break skill rank cap. Don't remember is knowledge the planes is on the list though.

Edit: it does. Now all you need is a way to get extra wealth above your WBL

Yeah... can't get that wealth without breaking the game at level 6.

[Thurbane]

You need to rest to level up, meaning at least for aasimar you will be deaf and lose the bonus. Dunno about elves.

Do you have a rules citation of needing to rest to level up? I know we always enforce it in my game, but I assumed it was a house rule.

Depending on the exact wording, too, there is s distinction between rest and sleep. One can rest without actually being asleep.

[Yogibear41]

I'll probably just turn my character into an incubus upon reaching level 20 for immortality and at-will greater teleport and ethereal jaunt


Out of Curiosity, how are you going to do this?

Also seeing Dragon Disciple used to get extra 8th level spells is hilarious.

[Thurbane]

Also seeing Dragon Disciple used to get extra 8th level spells is hilarious.

Yep, I stumbled upon the idea for an Ur-Priest build I was looking at a while back. It's pretty much the only thing DD is really any good for. :smalltongue:

[RoboEmperor]

Out of Curiosity, how are you going to do this?

Also seeing Dragon Disciple used to get extra 8th level spells is hilarious.

I know right! it's absolutely hysterical!

Using Wish you can change your race.

Savage Species is a 3.5 book and it shows several ways a character can change his race permanently. It specifically tells you step by step what happens if you use wish to change your race. Basically you lose levels equal to the race's LA, so for a level 20 PC turning into an incubus, he would become level 14 with an ECL of 20.

For wish, for you to get a SLA/Su/Ex ability of that race, there's only a (CasterSpellcraftCheck-20)*5% chance of you getting it. So if the wish caster rolls a spellcraft check of 30, you only have a 50% chance of getting all those things. You roll a d20 die and if it's higher than 11 you get it, if it's 10 or below you don't. This is an optional rule however.


Do you have a rules citation of needing to rest to level up? I know we always enforce it in my game, but I assumed it was a house rule.

Depending on the exact wording, too, there is s distinction between rest and sleep. One can rest without actually being asleep.

IIRC it's rest not sleep, thats why I said I wasn't sure about Elves, because they meditate.

I can't find the quote. It truly might be a house rule. Goddamn it. That horrible DM I played with seriously ****ed me up. I'm a post a thread to confirm.

[Grim Reader]

I'd consider aping Marshall for Sand Shaper. In addition to filling out the Nar Demonbinders small list of spells, if you're already going the versatile Spellcaster/Heighten route, you can sacrifice two eigth level spells to cast a spell heightened to 9th level. That triggers Desert Insight, giving you a ninth level spell, Summon Desert Ally IX.

Then go Dragon Disciple and add 9th level spell slots. Once you can actually cast 9th level spells there are a few ways to add more spells known, although its a bit more difficult in this case.

[RoboEmperor]

I'd consider aping Marshall for Sand Shaper. In addition to filling out the Nar Demonbinders small list of spells, if you're already going the versatile Spellcaster/Heighten route, you can sacrifice two eigth level spells to cast a spell heightened to 9th level. That triggers Desert Insight, giving you a ninth level spell, Summon Desert Ally IX.

Then go Dragon Disciple and add 9th level spell slots. Once you can actually cast 9th level spells there are a few ways to add more spells known, although its a bit more difficult in this case.

Thanks for the tip but I'll probably keep marshal.

1. I can have a 96%+ chance of winning that charisma check with 0 debuffing. Marshal adds my charisma modifier, to my charisma check, which essentially is a +8 to that check.

2. I like being specialized, it's how I keep my character "Balanced". If I could bind pit fiends and balors to me at near 100% success rate, it wouldn't fair if I could also do everything else right? ;D, since I already can do virtually everything else by binding the right outsider, but at least that's out of combat not in combat.