Wizardly Paranoia While Hiding in School

[Segev]

Assume a properly paranoid 20th level wizard has, despite all his best efforts, managed to find himself compelled to re-live childhood as a modern American kid. He can't - for whatever contrived reasons you like - escape this fate and feign nor achieve adulthood faster than normal. However this happened, he also found himself bereft of his vast resources and even his spellbook - he has had, as he's grown up under adoptive parents, to painstakingly use spell research rules to re-create what spellbook he can, and to find time to make any magic items he can scavenge or scam his adoptive parents into buying the parts for.

But he's still a 20th level wizard, and he's just as paranoid about personal safety as ever. Unfortunately, he also is very concerned about being found out. Perhaps part of what's keeping him in this childish guise is hiding from a powerful enemy. Regardless, he wants to have his best possible suite of paranoiac defenses...that won't call attention to itself unless he's truly in a life-or-death situation. He can't afford to permit bullies to pick on him, particularly physically, as he worries about an enemy using such a "minor" kerfluffle as a feint to slip in a really serious attack. And contingencies are only so discerning, anyway.

What defenses might you, playgrounders, have such a character utilize if you were playing that wizard? Feel free to discuss strategies for day-to-day living as well as protections, and under what circumstances you would abandon subtlety versus what subtle safety spells and contingencies you'd have up.


If the wizard hasn't given up Enchantment, charm person goes a long way towards strategically getting adult authority figures on your side, as well as keeping key bullies off your back. But if you can't rely on that (and thus can't be the darling of every institution you attend), what else might one try?

[flappeercraft]

Well there is always the classic simulacrum, send the simulacrum to school instead of yourself and stay in your own personal demiplane. That basically takes all suspicion away. If you want, have persisted Superior Invisibility and be right next to your simulacrum to make it so that you still are at school, the problems just don't go to you but instead to your simulacrum.

[Gildedragon]

Become a star athlete:
Bear's Endurance
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Heroics
Tenser's Transformation
Wish (to boost physical stats)

Alternatively:
Persisted Nondescript to make people not notice the wizard
Nondescript, mindblank, nondetection. Pair with amanuesis to copy someone else's work...

[Rhyltran]

Assume a properly paranoid 20th level wizard has, despite all his best efforts, managed to find himself compelled to re-live childhood as a modern American kid. He can't - for whatever contrived reasons you like - escape this fate and feign nor achieve adulthood faster than normal. However this happened, he also found himself bereft of his vast resources and even his spellbook - he has had, as he's grown up under adoptive parents, to painstakingly use spell research rules to re-create what spellbook he can, and to find time to make any magic items he can scavenge or scam his adoptive parents into buying the parts for.

But he's still a 20th level wizard, and he's just as paranoid about personal safety as ever. Unfortunately, he also is very concerned about being found out. Perhaps part of what's keeping him in this childish guise is hiding from a powerful enemy. Regardless, he wants to have his best possible suite of paranoiac defenses...that won't call attention to itself unless he's truly in a life-or-death situation. He can't afford to permit bullies to pick on him, particularly physically, as he worries about an enemy using such a "minor" kerfluffle as a feint to slip in a really serious attack. And contingencies are only so discerning, anyway.

What defenses might you, playgrounders, have such a character utilize if you were playing that wizard? Feel free to discuss strategies for day-to-day living as well as protections, and under what circumstances you would abandon subtlety versus what subtle safety spells and contingencies you'd have up.


If the wizard hasn't given up Enchantment, charm person goes a long way towards strategically getting adult authority figures on your side, as well as keeping key bullies off your back. But if you can't rely on that (and thus can't be the darling of every institution you attend), what else might one try?

Even spells aside given how high your skill points are you can probably deal with any situation. Not to mention at level 20 you'd have a level 20 BAB. Even as a wizard bullies are what? Commoners? Definitely not a threat. You should be able to conquer the world with your skill points alone as high as they'd be as a level 20 character. Depending what you chose.

[Baby Gary]

don't forget to sprinkle a couple of contingencies in there, like one that teleports him home when there is trouble and one that casts simulacrum whenever he teleports, so you got yourself a nice escape route without anyone knowing that you left, also when you are skipping school using simulacrum don't forget to use invisibility so you don't get caught

[Gildedragon]

Slowly replace the student body with ice assassins or simulacra, all the while keeping the actual students in stasis (sepia snake sigil-ed textbooks?)

[Segev]

All things I probably should have thought of, and some fun (if wicked) suggestions.

I had forgotten the fact that our level 20 wizard, even with the horrible stat penalties for being a child (early on), will have a +10 BAB. Compared to even children an age category higher, that's going to be a pretty hefty combat bonus. Without buffs, I wouldn't try grappling them, but you could probably land more hits even with your nonproficiency penalty in fisticuffs.

The "be a star athlete" idea is also interesting: avoid being a target by being the kind of kid who's thought to be popular. If you don't have a winning personality to go with it, it might not work socially, but it's worth a try. And nobody wants to try to beat up the kid who's known to have pushed back the other team's star linebacker.

Simulacrum runs into a wealth problem; convincing Mom and Dad to buy you hundreds of gp worth of gems to crush and embed in a snow sculpture (even if you don't tell them that's what you're going to do with it) might be difficult. Though having a reputation for weird hobbies and decorating habits could help disguise morning spell-prep.

I am amused by a contingent teleport coupled with a contingent simulacrum, though I don't think the latter works via the rules. Too long a casting time.

[Baby Gary]

Simulacrum runs into a wealth problem; convincing Mom and Dad to buy you hundreds of gp worth of gems to crush and embed in a snow sculpture (even if you don't tell them that's what you're going to do with it) might be difficult..

what about polymorph any object? that could be useful for material components. also contingencies would be a very good idea to get out of sticky situations (a 10 y/o with thousands of dollars worth of gems...). spells like suggestion, teleport, invisibility, simulacrum, and fly could be very useful and could be combined in many interesting ways. also your 23 ranks in ____ skill could be VERY useful, think of all the stuff you could do with your amazing historical knowledge (probably at least +30) etc.

[flappeercraft]

Casting time is irrelevant with Contingency, Simulacrum being a 7th level spell is a problem though. But Reserves of strength spell could solve that

Edit: Actually material components wouldn't really be a problem. There is always Planar Binding Shenanigans to get an Efreet and use his wish to replicate a Simulacrum of itself under your control and then just have the simulacrum of it grant you 3 daily free wishes. Then those daily wishes can be used in creating non magical items of up to 25,000 GP under the safe uses clause meaning that you can get up to 3 expensive material components every day that cost up to 25,000 GP. Depending on GM ruling you might be able to make it multiple of the same item with a maximum cost of up to 25,000 GP.

[GilesTheCleric]

Regardless of whatever else you plan to do, I think Cloak of Khyber is the one indispensable spell. If you have any kind of buffs up, your magical auras will be a dead giveaway to anyone looking for you. Getting the 50gp Khybershards might not be easy, but you could probably use some Creation spell to make them.

[ryu]

Low level spells for maximum benefit, minimum noticeable effect from the outside, and bonus points for as few spells used as possible? We need invisible, stilled, silent, eschewed material components for charm, dominate, and eventually ideally mindrape. We also need fabricate, level twenty skill ranks, and some valuable material. Color spray is also good. Also some spells to reduce saves. Alter self invisible edition for panic buttons, something to hide auras, and can I get some extended invisible buffs? Okay we're set to get rich in total safety over the course of a few days with mesmerized clandestine agents.

[Hish]

I get that I'm trying to hide my powers to hide from my powerful opponents, but if I don't give it away, is there a chance that my opponents might find me? There's a huge difference between "Defend yourself from some bullies without showing off" and "Defend yourself from some bullies without showing off AND be prepared for an Epic wizard attack at any moment."

If A, then I think 20d4 hp and BAB 10 is enough to defend against 1d4 knife stabs at BAB 0, even with unfavorable stat penalties/bonuses. If B, I think that basically you don't stand a chance. Sure, you might be able to defend yourself, but living among commoners, anyone would let their guard slip, and then you're dead.

[prototype00]

Does the Wizard have Mindsight? That is basically an always on unbeatable 100ft alarm that isn't stopped by the usual barriers.

Edit: Granted, it does take two feats to pull off.

[Quertus]

Relying on a spell book means that you aren't a properly paranoid wizard in the first place. Beats me how you'll ever get the money to research even a single spell.

Homeschool is your friend.

If you can't get your parents to homeschool you, why not convince the cute girl next door's parents to homeschool you both? (is that legal?)

Got to go to school? Here's hoping you invested skill ranks in social skills, or can silent still eschew materials some skill-boosting spells.

But you're not going to fit in, at least not right away, unless you trained under Quertus, a time traveler, or have some other excuse to have ranks in Knowledge:technology, let alone knowledge:pop culture. Because you're sure not going to be gaining levels to be able to take those ranks any time soon.

In fact, you might just fail out of grade school, seeing as how you can't gain any skills, and your education certainly didn't cover all the subjects taught in a modern school.

[ryu]

Relying on a spell book means that you aren't a properly paranoid wizard in the first place. Beats me how you'll ever get the money to research even a single spell.

Homeschool is your friend.

If you can't get your parents to homeschool you, why not convince the cute girl next door's parents to homeschool you both? (is that legal?)

Got to go to school? Here's hoping you invested skill ranks in social skills, or can silent still eschew materials some skill-boosting spells.

But you're not going to fit in, at least not right away, unless you trained under Quertus, a time traveler, or have some other excuse to have ranks in Knowledge:technology, let alone knowledge:pop culture. Because you're sure not going to be gaining levels to be able to take those ranks any time soon.

In fact, you might just fail out of grade school, seeing as how you can't gain any skills, and your education certainly didn't cover all the subjects taught in a modern school.

You can use your own body as a spellbook should you lose yours. Page count is limited but any feats you have are still feats.

[Quertus]

So, to try to answer the question being asked, if I somehow got enough money, a library, a lab, etc, to do spell research, something like Wield Skill, to give me a single rank in each of the skills I'll need to graduate, let alone function in this bizarre world, that I could then persist, would be a high priority.

If I had the money to research lots of spells, it'd be a tough call between several low-level spells, like Prestidigitation, instantly reading books, Invisibility, Fight, and Suggestion, or just going for a single powerful spell, like PaO. Honestly, if it were me, I'd probably research Prestidigitation, followed by Mind Rape. Give or take custom spells, of course.

And Simulacrum, as much as I love the spell, is a horrible self-replacement, especially in times of trouble. Now, a custom version of it, that will, for example, bleed? That could be handy.

But the best thing ever? Leadership. Make the entire school, perhaps even the entire town, into your followers. Problem Solved. :smallcool:

[Coidzor]

How young is the body when he's put into it? Is he having to spend time as a baby and toddler before he's even physically capable of doing what he needs to do to start trying to recreate his spellbook?

One advantage of the affluence of modern society is that things which were rare and difficult to get in the past are more common, so there may very well be some relatively cheap ways for him to get the necessary inks and material to write on.

Alternatively, it may basically be impossible. It's a huge range that variable could cover.

Does he have any spells left prepared to start off with to kick things off or is he in a state where he has 0 spells prepared(other than Read Magic and any he took Spell Mastery for) until he manages to re-create them via research?


Become a star athlete:
Bear's Endurance
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Heroics
Tenser's Transformation
Wish (to boost physical stats)

Alternatively:
Persisted Nondescript to make people not notice the wizard
Nondescript, mindblank, nondetection. Pair with amanuesis to copy someone else's work...

You're a level 20 Wizard. Use Scholar's Touch to read books instantly and Autohypnosis to memorize the contents if you actually need to bother with schoolwork.

Nondescript probably wouldn't be the best idea, as it may get him counted as absent if a teacher goes over the attendance roll and then realizes that they never remember actually seeing him in class.

[Xar Zarath]

Hmm if I am the only one with magic in the world and I have the appropriate number of spells a Level 20 Wizard has...large numbers of Enchantment spells would guarantee me a lot of things. Protection, money, entertainment.

Seriously if I had access to the School of Enchantment in this world for my spells only, I could do some real damage.

Charm Person alone is quite deadly, depending on the person you cast it on to the phrasing of Suggestion, let alone Dominate and Mindrape spells. High Magic wielder in a no magic world is quite something, wouldn't you agree?

[Quertus]

Hmm if I am the only one with magic in the world and I have the appropriate number of spells a Level 20 Wizard has...large numbers of Enchantment spells would guarantee me a lot of things. Protection, money, entertainment.

Seriously if I had access to the School of Enchantment in this world for my spells only, I could do some real damage.

Charm Person alone is quite deadly, depending on the person you cast it on to the phrasing of Suggestion, let alone Dominate and Mindrape spells. High Magic wielder in a no magic world is quite something, wouldn't you agree?

The biggest problem with Enhancement, especially for the paranoid wizard, especially for one in hiding at nowhere near the peak of his power, is the terribly low DC of realizing that something is wrong with those you've enchanted.

Now, the muggles may not understand exactly what is wrong with your "friends", but it's fair to say even they will notice that something's up. And whatever you're hiding from is sure to notice, making hiding all the more difficult.

[Florian]

So, starting totally from scratch but having the power to do so? The first spell I´d start to redevelop would by Psychic Asylum to get a large amount of mental work done in the blink of an eye, like spell research. Following up with Psychic Reading, Object Reading, Hypercognition and Prognostication to speed up the intel gathering.
Mind Probe/Mind Wipe to protect my secrets, Mindscape Door/Create Mindscape for absolute safety, Instigate Psychic Duels to take someone out in a very discreet way and Anticipate Thoughts, Stun Shield and Reactive Force Field to have layer-able defenses.

[Lazymancer]

Alternatively:
Persisted Nondescript to make people not notice the wizard
Nondescript, mindblank, nondetection. Pair with amanuesis to copy someone else's work...
Long-term Nondetection is a no-go, unless you have infrastructure in place. It chews through your wealth otherwise ("so, your wizard casts Nondetection on a daily basis during those two years we are skipping? I hope you have 36,500 gp").



If A, then I think 20d4 hp and BAB 10 is enough to defend against 1d4 knife stabs at BAB 0, ...
Assuming Magic Jar/Mind Switch reasoning is in place, you get only BAB, not HP. Enjoy your non-maximized 1d4 (penalties from low Con not included). This also nixes tattooed spell-book.



Does the Wizard have Mindsight? That is basically an always on unbeatable 100ft alarm that isn't stopped by the usual barriers.

Edit: Granted, it does take two feats to pull off.
Why two?

Also, Mindsight is hardly unbeatable (mindless are not detected, nor - depending on interpretation - enemies with mindblank/misdirection/nondetection/...). Not to mention you'll be drowning in false positives in school: there is a lot of people around. Though one might argue mindless clause to filter them out...



Relying on a spell book means that you aren't a properly paranoid wizard in the first place. Beats me how you'll ever get the money to research even a single spell.
Ahem. Any proper wizard (regardless of paranoia) has Uncanny Forethought. Spell Mastery is a pre-requisite. Therefore, some spells should be accessable regardless of paranoia.

Personally, I'd assume ~7 spells of up to 5th spell level (organic build with retraining Alacritous Cogitation at 9th level to get Spell Mastery and use 9th level feat on Uncanny Forethought), even if wizard doesn't retrain Spell Mastery every spell level to keep it up to date.

[Quertus]

Ahem. Any proper wizard (regardless of paranoia) has Uncanny Forethought. Spell Mastery is a pre-requisite. Therefore, some spells should be accessable regardless of paranoia.

Personally, I'd assume ~7 spells of up to 5th spell level (organic build with retraining Alacritous Cogitation at 9th level to get Spell Mastery and use 9th level feat on Uncanny Forethought), even if wizard doesn't retrain Spell Mastery every spell level to keep it up to date.

Huh. I wasn't familiar with that trick.

So, If I went this route, what 9 spells would I take? I guess it depends on whether this trip into childhood was planned or not. Let's go with "unplanned". Well, some to be a standard action "win" button, the rest for if I lose my spellbook. Reading up on it, Ghoul Glyph and Major Creation (if available) sound effective. Contingency benefits both ways. Mind Blank, Teleport, Plane Shift, and Astral Projection are no-brainers. That leaves 2 slots - one for an additional offensive trick, and one for some custom, signature spell the character doesn't want to be without.

Alternately, if your RAI says that every spell known counts, even if your spell book is destroyed, then you can probably safely cast several of those buffs as full-round actions, and get a little more offensive variety.

That certainly makes feeling safe in a modern world while potentially being hunted a little easier.

So, back to research order.

1. <totally not Wield Skill>. It is vital to Persist something to understand this world, and be able to pass my classes.
2. Prestidigitation. Low research cost, great versatility, and makes dinner edible when it's dad's night to cook. :smalltongue:
3. If there is an existing spell a wizard can research to grant themselves ranks in arbitrary skills, then the next priority is some random signature 0th level custom spell, like Create Bouncy Ball, to make sure that custom spell research works in this world, before wasting time (and money!) attempting to research some custom high-level spells.
4. Mind Blank. Already covered if we have Spell Mastery, and have kept it up to date. I just can't see a properly paranoid wizard hiding without Mind Blank.
5. Some way to hide your dwoemers. Depending on RAI, Mind Blank may already cover this.
6. Probably about here is where a properly paranoid wizard should prioritize some divination(s) of choice.
7. Some spell of choice, like PaO or Mind Rape.
8. Some custom, signature spell, that you don't feel complete without. This is probably covered by Spell Mastery.
9. Rather late game, but this is where I'd prioritize custom spell(s) specific to the trials of this world, like Create Gasoline, Recharge Battery, Service Anywhere, or Returning Token. If, you know, Create Bouncy Ball was a success.
10-20. Here is where high-utility, low level spells like Detect Magic, Protection from Evil, Grease, Color Spray, Mending, Invisibility, Detect Thoughts, Glitter Dust, Fight, and Arcane Sight would go.

If you have sufficient Autohypnosis, Scholar's Touch (or, you know, just reading books the old-fashioned way) would suffice to pass most tests, as modern scholarship is, sadly, generally just regurgitating information. So, you may almost be able to skip step 1, if you have a really lame school system, and a really liberal DM.

---

For items, a Contingency figurine is a must for a properly paranoid wizard. The next priority is likely some "always available" item to grant a +6 Int bonus.

-----

If we're paranoid about losing our spell book, I'm going out on a limb and guessing we're paranoid about losing our spell component pouch, too, so Eschew Materials is likely. Honestly, I'd probably take it anyway. Otherwise, we'd get a reputation for all the tarts, live spiders, etc, in our hip pouch. :smalltongue:

[Florian]

If we're paranoid about losing our spell book, I'm going out on a limb and guessing we're paranoid about losing our spell component pouch, too, so Eschew Materials is likely. Honestly, I'd probably take it anyway. Otherwise, we'd get a reputation for all the tarts, live spiders, etc, in our hip pouch. :smalltongue:

Not only that, but where do we get the damn spell component pouch at the first place? I doubt Walmart has them on stock....

[Quertus]

Not only that, but where do we get the damn spell component pouch at the first place? I doubt Walmart has them on stock....

Craft skill. And lots of in-character fun, baking tarts and getting caught hoarding them. Catch and release collecting live spiders. Collecting rust, magnets, iron fillings, eye lashes, wax, etc etc etc.

EDIT: Heck, I'm having fun just picturing this character getting his parents to buy him a hip pouch at Wal-Mart, and being confused when he can't pull spell components out of it. :smalltongue:

[BWR]

Not only that, but where do we get the damn spell component pouch at the first place? I doubt Walmart has them on stock....

The way we did back before 3.x: you scavenge spell components.
Most components that the pouch contains are simply normal stuff you can find pretty easily most places. sand, spiders, spider webs, feathers, certain flowers, etc. You find colonies of bats to gather their droppings, you scour flea markets, garage sales and pawn shops for little crafted things, you spend some time crafting simple stuff yourself (high Int should give you a decent result even untrained)

[prototype00]

Also, Mindsight is hardly unbeatable (mindless are not detected, nor - depending on interpretation - enemies with mindblank/misdirection/nondetection/...). Not to mention you'll be drowning in false positives in school: there is a lot of people around. Though one might argue mindless clause to filter them out...


Mindsight:
A creature that has this feat can detect and pinpoint beings that are not mindless (anything with an Intelligence score of 1 or higher) within range of its telepathy. This works much like blindsense--the creature knows what square each thinking being is in, but it does not see the being, and the being still has total concealment unless the creature can see it by some other means. The creature also perceives several observable characteristics about each being detected with mindsight, including the being's type and Intelligence score. The creature need not take any additional or special actions to gain this information; it is as obvious to mindsight as the being's race and clothing would be to eyesight.

So a DM can rule however they want, but RAW, Mindsight works out to the range of Telepathy (and there is nothing in there about Telepathy requiring line of effect) and is not affected by any of the things you mentioned, except for being Mindless.

And about the other guys in school, don't even worry about it. You'll immediately know which ones are dangerous (you can sense type as well as Intelligence as easily as looking at them), and you can pick out the really smart ones to recruit.

The two feats I had in mind were Shape Soulmeld (Shedu Crown) and Mindsight (you can probably get away with casting Open Least Chakra Daily if you squint). I guess if you qualify for a Mindbender Dip, its only one feat you need to take.

prototype00

[Segev]

The way I was envisioning this, the wizard does find himself unexpectedly reduced initially to infancy and growing up the slow way, with luck/providence/plot contrivance arranging for him to be found and adopted by a reasonable modern American-style family. Siblings (of parents' bloodline or also adopted) optional, but not unlikely. If you can think of ways for the suddenly infantilized wizard to magically arrange the contrivance, so much the better, but probably safer to assume he's going to have to get at least to the point where his body is mature enough to do precise gestures and speak words clearly before he's casting spells.

I'd assume he has some allotment of spells left prepared; hoarding those until he can get in a position to scribe them would be a monumental task of willpower. And if he's tattooing (or scarring) himself for his spellbook, he'd best hope he can keep his parents from realizing. Imagine their horror at their oddly precocious toddler (speaking clearly the moment he has all his teeth!) cutting himself deeply enough to scar. Or tattooing himself, which is in some ways even more disturbing due to the complexity of the task. Spell Mastery is a good call.

Given the breadth of Knowledge skills (e.g. Nature, History, and especially Local), I wonder if you'd automatically know all the history of the place despite never having studied it. Assuming your GM wasn't allowing that level of silliness, a high K:History would at the least be justification enough, I think, for you to be able to do well with any history questions on a subject you are being taught in school. I think a lot of subjects would similarly be "covered," though Quertus's suggestion for a spell to grant artificial ranks in skills may not be remiss.

I doubt most bullies are using daggers; those tend to cross a line that they can't afford where it comes to plausible deniability and using the adult authority figures against the victim. The main concern with them is both a matter of wizardly dignity (already bruised by this whole scenario) - being knocked over and having your books and stuff stolen and messed with is rather humiliating - and safety when it comes to whatever real threats might come for a wizard 20. If something MORE dangerous than a bully shows up, you want to be properly paranoid, but you don't want it springing your contingent greater teleport home just because Bobby "Meathead" Smith and his two toadies shoved you into a wall and planned to demand your lunch money.

Or worse, if you're the sort of wizard who likes to drop damaging or cursing effects in retaliation as part of your instant defense.


And, in case I haven't done so yet, I want to thank everybody for this discussion; it's been quite enlightening, and I hope it continues!


Edit: Regarding Mindsight, while I don't know that this is doable or applicable here, I feel like adding a side note that I love it when Elder Brains or Formian Queens take that feat. 5 miles of mindsight radius is just nuts.

[Coidzor]

I think Bestow Curse is the ideal anti-bully spell. Someone wants to mess with you? Well, a little scuffle and some strategic and pretty severe debuffs and now basically no one will believe them when they try to convince anyone of anything and they become as weak as a kitten and about as accurate when it comes to throwing a punch.

Or try to save up to the point where Mindrape is a spell you can cast reliably and just make the school and eventually the entire community into a model community. Though that works best in a suburb or small town.

Honestly, though, unless he's in a city with a lot of gun violence, he's pretty much set as far as physical safety goes.

[Lazymancer]

So, If I went this route, what 9 spells would I take? I guess it depends on whether this trip into childhood was planned or not. Let's go with "unplanned". Well, some to be a standard action "win" button, the rest for if I lose my spellbook. Reading up on it, Ghoul Glyph and Major Creation (if available) sound effective. Contingency benefits both ways. Mind Blank, Teleport, Plane Shift, and Astral Projection are no-brainers. That leaves 2 slots - one for an additional offensive trick, and one for some custom, signature spell the character doesn't want to be without.
Okay, no. While Teleport fits Spell Mastery to a T, the rest does not. I'll note that Ghoul Glyph is quite good (despite components) and works RAW, but IRL GMs are unlikely to let RAW fly and will not let you do no-save paralysis as a standard action with 2nd level spell.


There are 4 consideration you need to keep in mind:
1) It is preferable to master either situational (so as not to waste slots) or multi-purpose spells (so as to have more durability). Generic spells you'll be casting anyway should be memorized properly.
2) If you want mastered spells to be useful for paranoia purposes (capture), you'd want to have spells without material components and foci.
3) Since mastered spells have in-combat use via with Uncanny Forethought (castable as standard action, as opposed to full-round), you'd prefer most of them to have casting time of standard action.
4) Finally, since you'll be usually reserving slots at different spell-levels, you'd want mastered spells not to be of the same spell level.

Of course, ignoring some of the considerations is perfectly acceptable, but spells have to be useful either for in-combat reasons, or for paranoia - if not both.

For example, 6 low-level spells: Command Undead/Ray of Stupidity (2), Gaseous Form (3), Dimension Door (4), and Cloudkill/Draconic Polymorph (5). All have in-combat use (standard action) and are semi-useful for escape (no focuses/material components, except for RoS).


If I had to make generic collection of 11 mastered spells (Int 32: 18 +2 racial +2 age +5 level +5 inherent) for Wizard 20, it would look like this: Arcane Sight (3), Orb of Force (4), Dominate Person/Teleport (5), Greater Dispel Magic (6), Energy Immunity/Shadow Conjuration, Greater (7), Ghostform/Mind Blank/Shadow Evocation, Greater (8), and Time Stop (9).

My personal choice would also include Whispercast (for paranoia; instead of Dominate Person), since we also ruled it RAI: as removal of somatic component - i.e. RAW requirement to be able to whisper is considered descripitive, rather than prescriptive (it is possible to cast both Silenced Whispercast and other Silenced spell as mental actions if you get paralyzed or something).

[Elkad]

If someone IS looking for you, you really want to avoid enchanting others. A Suggestion that the policeman let you slide with a warning is probably OK. Leaving him Charmed is not, because it's detectable.

It's hard to find the one guy who radiates magic - or near impossible if using Mind Blank, Non-Detection, etc. But if you run around indiscriminately charming people, the odds of someone detecting any one of them is an eventual problem. Now they have a locus to search.

If you create items, they ALL need to be undetectable, unless they are covered by your own protection buffs. Lots of Nystul's Aura spells every day, or similar. Forget and hang your magic parka on a hook in the classroom, and you just became detectable.

School is the least of your concerns. Read your textbooks once. You have an Int of at least 20, even if you lost all your enhancements on the crossdimensional reincarnate, that's all you need. You don't even have to do it in your free time, there is plenty of time in class. You probably want to avoid being the 11yr old with 4 doctorates as well, because that gets you on the news. Or a star athlete. Or the girl who convinced the entire town to buy 4 boxes of Thin Mints each. That means sandbagging your grades as well. Aiming for the 90th percentile on regular tests (which is easy, I figured it out as a normal 7yr old and did it until I was 14, just to avoid getting beat up after school for "blowing the grade curve". Only a few teachers figured it as anything as "Elkad just doesn't apply himself", and none of the kids did.) You want to be average. Boring. Have friends, but don't be class president. Make the school team, in one sport, but not first string. Etc.

Any fame or riches should be kept minor, and directed away from you. I'm going to assume that every single lottery winner will be checked by the enemy. So it might be OK for Dad to "get lucky" on the sweepstakes at the local dealership to win a $30,000 car, but he's never going to pick the winning Lotto numbers.

But I still want money to craft, research, etc. And it can't be traceable. Hmm. How do I Divine for lost Bitcoin accounts from 5 years ago?

Oh, and Mind Blank is dangerous on it's own. If the enemy has telepathic minions, finding the guy who doesn't radiate thoughts is a possibility. A longshot, but it's there. Of course blanket non-detection is the same. Throw some sort of no-save minor effect with a duration at huge swaths of population, and then Detect them all. If one doesn't radiate, investigate more closely.

[Lazymancer]

If you create items, they ALL need to be undetectable, unless they are covered by your own protection buffs. Lots of Nystul's Aura spells every day, or similar. Forget and hang your magic parka on a hook in the classroom, and you just became detectable.
Nondetection protects all items you carry. Also, Magic Aura lasts for days. I.e. you can protect up to 20 items without any additional investment while expending only one 1st-level spell.


That means sandbagging your grades as well. Aiming for the 90th percentile on regular tests (which is easy, I figured it out as a normal 7yr old and did it until I was 14, just to avoid getting beat up after school for "blowing the grade curve". Only a few teachers figured it as anything as "Elkad just doesn't apply himself", and none of the kids did.)
In other news: your school needs to be burned down to the ground. Seriously, what the hell.

[Elkad]

Aiming for the 90th percentile on regular tests (which is easy, I figured it out as a normal 7yr old and did it until I was 14, just to avoid getting beat up after school for "blowing the grade curve". Only a few teachers figured it as anything as "Elkad just doesn't apply himself", and none of the kids did.)


In other news: your school needs to be burned down to the ground. Seriously, what the hell.

I've had conversations about similar stuff with a lot of kids who are in the gifted category. At schools all over the country. It applied to teachers too, which is what started it for me. "Oh, Little Elkad finished his 5 pages of Long Division that I meant for weekend homework, and there is still 20 minutes left in class? Here, have 10 pages of even harder problems that none of the other kids have to do." No reward, just punishment for being smarter than the other kids. So instead you put your feet up and read a comic book - which makes you a class hero when you get detention - then do the math problems on the bus on Monday. Shortly after that I got a teacher who loved grading on a curve, in a hard-for-other-kids subject, so when I put up perfect tests and the rest of the class peaked at 80, they got curved to a C-. Then the beatings started.

And it applies to jobs as well. Less getting beat up, but you are still ostracized by your peers.
You learn to be very careful about displaying your gifts. You never call people on their stupidity, just let them screw things up, and let the boss find it, unless it involves actual physical danger.

I'm constantly stunned that "normal" people can't read a legal contract, or a medical journal, or a technical bulletin for their car, and at least follow the gist of it. "Did you go to school for that?" "No. Well I learned to read in Kindergarten, the rest of this is just common sense." Whoops, I just alienated another NPC. Oh well, it was just my realtor, I'll never deal with her again anyway.

[Coidzor]

80s movies had to draw on something for their crapsack schools, after all.

[Lazymancer]

Well, a lot of schools needs to be burned down then. Teachers like this are simply unfit for the job.

Also, I guess, I missing out on a lot of fascinating social interactions due to being anti-social in general (you can't offend people with your intellect if you gleefully offended them some other way already).

[Florian]

@Elkad:

That reads horrible. We have a multi-tier system for schools with really early separation based on grades. We´re also using an "excellence"-based system, so schools get additional funding based on the level of highest rates they can "generate". That way, most teachers have a solid incentive to try and push the performance of a class. As sport is a non-issue for schools (no need for high school sport for funding), the tolerance for the archetypical "Jock" is pretty low and they get shifted to the lower-tier schools when their performance is not up to it. (Mind, not all is gold. In Berlin or the whole of NRW, that system has grumbled to near dust)


But back2topic: I´d base this on a Human Arcanist (Eldritch Font/Magaambyan Initiate) 10/Magaambyan Arcanist 10, which a heavy focus on Divination. Free access to Spell Mastery as well as being able to use druid spells look solid. Occult Adventures raised the bar for Divination, Ultimate Intrigue has some of the most subtle casting options and pushed what Enchantments can do.

[Honest Tiefling]

One would presume that a chunk of any high school population are still virgins. Even if the wizard himself can't get out of this world, could outsiders come in? Just use Ice Assassin/Simulacra or other tricks to disguise your sacrifices.

For added funsies, throw in some DnD books into their rooms and pretend they were a part of a DnD death cult.

[Coidzor]

One would presume that a chunk of any high school population are still virgins. Even if the wizard himself can't get out of this world, could outsiders come in? Just use Ice Assassin/Simulacra or other tricks to disguise your sacrifices.

For added funsies, throw in some DnD books into their rooms and pretend they were a part of a DnD death cult.

So what do we get out of sacrificing virgins again?

[Elkad]

Multi-tier schools with gifted programs work great if you are in a big town.

If it's the only school in an hour's drive, you get what you get.


On-topic, and back to my point. I'll be expecting the enemy to detect ANY magic and investigate. Which means nothing you do can be detectable, until you are completely ready for a fight. If it is, you'd better do it far from home, covered by every ward you can come up with (including the classic lead-lined box), leave immediately anyway, and never use that location again. Leaving a tripwire behind to notify you if it's found is a bonus.

So hide, work on restoring your book, run when necessary. Paranoia is the order of the day.

[Florian]

On-topic, and back to my point. I'll be expecting the enemy to detect ANY magic and investigate. Which means nothing you do can be detectable, until you are completely ready for a fight. If it is, you'd better do it far from home, covered by every ward you can come up with (including the classic lead-lined box), leave immediately anyway, and never use that location again. Leaving a tripwire behind to notify you if it's found is a bonus.

So hide, work on restoring your book, run when necessary. Paranoia is the order of the day.

I love Subtle Casting, especially in combination with Shift Blame. On a bad day, you use Outcast and Compel Hostility against people annoying you, which will also be the target of Shift Blame, incidentally. So you have enemies that could nuke you from orbit, well.... the nuke, yes, but not on you.

(Edit this is more or less "anti charm person". The target loses all friends, is always suspect and every traceable signs of your spellcasting can be traced back to the target)

[Honest Tiefling]

Multi-tier schools with gifted programs work great if you are in a big town.

Or...Not. From my experience, the gifted program was always shifted to the problem school to make it look better. And some problem schools you probably don't want to be in.


So what do we get out of sacrificing virgins again?

I dunno, less risk of contamination if the blood spray goes in the wrong direction?

As a matter of fact, couldn't you just mind control your parents into home schooling you? That seems like an easy way to slip through the cracks and avoid detection.

[Segev]

In my experience, the gifted program was just nerd recess, and if you were marked out for punishment before it kicked in, you were ostracized in the gifted program, too. Doesn't help if the gym teachers actively encourage picking on the students who "aren't trying hard enough" and the school administration assumes that any conflicts require both sides to be provoking the other. Using adult grammar and polysyllabic words in elementary school is apparently "intimidating" the other kids and "provoking" fights on purpose, so it's just as much your fault that you got knocked over and surrounded by kids pummelling your backpack (thank goodness you were wearing it, or it'd have been your back) while you just huddle and try to avoid being hurt. Obviously, you're just as at fault as the buggers hitting you.

Seriously, if I re-lived my life, I'd beat up a couple of kids in first grade and be done with it. Get in trouble early, and earn some respect. Still wouldn't sandbag my grades. But probably wouldn't make my arms sore holding them in the air when nobody else in the class knew the answer to the umpteenth question in a row; I'd take the hint that the teacher didn't WANT to call on me again.


On topic, I imagine the 20th level wizard wouldn't have the qualms against fighting back, so any bullies would be in for at least a challenge even without buffs thanks to that +10 BAB we discussed.

Obtaining resources/wealth is a tricky one. The information density in the modern world is so much higher that having a "secret stash" is tricky when you want to order online. The availability of online ordering combined with bitcoin or credit card fraud (hey, there are grown-ups who engage in fraud by actually signing up kids for them; sign yourself up using their techniques and the only fraud technically present is your being legally underage to sign a contract) would make this doable, but getting a delivery address that your parents wouldn't intercept might be harder.

Unless he's a personable wizard who actually does make friends and relish his second childhood, I imagine his ideal position would be one where the bullies don't mess with him out of fear or disinterest, but is otherwise comfortable with ostricization from these small humans who are not really his peers. Then again, friends are great, and if he's got a child's endocrine system his emotional maturity might suffer, so having them probably helps. Hopefully high will saves translate to good self-control, though, if that's the case, so he doesn't decide showing off is superior to paranoia.

[Quertus]

The way I was envisioning this, the wizard does find himself unexpectedly reduced initially to infancy and growing up the slow way, with luck/providence/plot contrivance arranging for him to be found and adopted by a reasonable modern American-style family. Siblings (of parents' bloodline or also adopted) optional, but not unlikely. If you can think of ways for the suddenly infantilized wizard to magically arrange the contrivance, so much the better, but probably safer to assume he's going to have to get at least to the point where his body is mature enough to do precise gestures and speak words clearly before he's casting spells.

Silent Spell? Still Spell? No, his only limiting factors are a spell book, and eyes that can focus well enough to read. And maybe a proper sleep cycle.


I'd assume he has some allotment of spells left prepared; hoarding those until he can get in a position to scribe them would be a monumental task of willpower.

If he had to suffer through relearning bowel control, waiting until he is able to control his limbs is a small price to pay for Infinite Cosmic Power.


And if he's tattooing (or scarring) himself for his spellbook, he'd best hope he can keep his parents from realizing. Imagine their horror at their oddly precocious toddler (speaking clearly the moment he has all his teeth!) cutting himself deeply enough to scar. Or tattooing himself, which is in some ways even more disturbing due to the complexity of the task. Spell Mastery is a good call.

Unless the wizard has uncharacteristic Bluff, and a good understanding of child development, I think that a little cutting will be the least of the reasons people may treat him oddly.


Given the breadth of Knowledge skills (e.g. Nature, History, and especially Local), I wonder if you'd automatically know all the history of the place despite never having studied it. Assuming your GM wasn't allowing that level of silliness, a high K:History would at the least be justification enough, I think, for you to be able to do well with any history questions on a subject you are being taught in school. I think a lot of subjects would similarly be "covered," though Quertus's suggestion for a spell to grant artificial ranks in skills may not be remiss.

Site has eaten my post twice now, but, short answer, he'll excel at PE, English, and maybe math, do ok in electives with untrained skills, struggle in science, and fail completely at foreign languages and history, under any but the most lax DM, unless he has magical aid.

And that's even before considering that, without UMD and magic/technology transparency, he'll have no way to ever make Use Technological Device rolls.


I doubt most bullies are using daggers; those tend to cross a line that they can't afford where it comes to plausible deniability and using the adult authority figures against the victim. The main concern with them is both a matter of wizardly dignity (already bruised by this whole scenario) - being knocked over and having your books and stuff stolen and messed with is rather humiliating - and safety when it comes to whatever real threats might come for a wizard 20. If something MORE dangerous than a bully shows up, you want to be properly paranoid, but you don't want it springing your contingent greater teleport home just because Bobby "Meathead" Smith and his two toadies shoved you into a wall and planned to demand your lunch money.

Or worse, if you're the sort of wizard who likes to drop damaging or cursing effects in retaliation as part of your instant defense.

With +10 BAB, and maybe 20 HD, he should be able to make the bullies cry. Which is probably an even worse situation to be in.

With a supreme intellect, cultural cluelessness, and a strange learning disability, he's a bully magnet, plain and simple.


Okay, no. While Teleport fits Spell Mastery to a T, the rest does not. I'll note that Ghoul Glyph is quite good (despite components) and works RAW, but IRL GMs are unlikely to let RAW fly and will not let you do no-save paralysis as a standard action with 2nd level spell.


There are 4 consideration you need to keep in mind:
1) It is preferable to master either situational (so as not to waste slots) or multi-purpose spells (so as to have more durability). Generic spells you'll be casting anyway should be memorized properly.
2) If you want mastered spells to be useful for paranoia purposes (capture), you'd want to have spells without material components and foci.
3) Since mastered spells have in-combat use via with Uncanny Forethought (castable as standard action, as opposed to full-round), you'd prefer most of them to have casting time of standard action.
4) Finally, since you'll be usually reserving slots at different spell-levels, you'd want mastered spells not to be of the same spell level.

Of course, ignoring some of the considerations is perfectly acceptable, but spells have to be useful either for in-combat reasons, or for paranoia - if not both.

For example, 6 low-level spells: Command Undead/Ray of Stupidity (2), Gaseous Form (3), Dimension Door (4), and Cloudkill/Draconic Polymorph (5). All have in-combat use (standard action) and are semi-useful for escape (no focuses/material components, except for RoS).


If I had to make generic collection of 11 mastered spells (Int 32: 18 +2 racial +2 age +5 level +5 inherent) for Wizard 20, it would look like this: Arcane Sight (3), Orb of Force (4), Dominate Person/Teleport (5), Greater Dispel Magic (6), Energy Immunity/Shadow Conjuration, Greater (7), Ghostform/Mind Blank/Shadow Evocation, Greater (8), and Time Stop (9).

My personal choice would also include Whispercast (for paranoia; instead of Dominate Person), since we also ruled it RAI: as removal of somatic component - i.e. RAW requirement to be able to whisper is considered descripitive, rather than prescriptive (it is possible to cast both Silenced Whispercast and other Silenced spell as mental actions if you get paralyzed or something).

Are any of my choices illegal?

How are Teleport and Plane Shift not optimal choices for escaping capture?

If you're captured, how likely is it that a standard action vs a full round action really makes all that much difference?

Why would you waste slots on lower level spells, which are (more common and) cheaper to replace than higher level spells, if your spell book is destroyed?

[Hish]

I doubt most bullies are using daggers; those tend to cross a line that they can't afford where it comes to plausible deniability and using the adult authority figures against the victim. The main concern with them is both a matter of wizardly dignity (already bruised by this whole scenario) - being knocked over and having your books and stuff stolen and messed with is rather humiliating - and safety when it comes to whatever real threats might come for a wizard 20. If something MORE dangerous than a bully shows up, you want to be properly paranoid, but you don't want it springing your contingent greater teleport home just because Bobby "Meathead" Smith and his two toadies shoved you into a wall and planned to demand your lunch money.

I was thinking that daggers are worst case scenario. Even if he finds someone more dangerous than Bobby Smith, they're not likely to be wielding a greatsword. But yeah, most likely he'll only be taking unarmed strikes.


I think Bestow Curse is the ideal anti-bully spell. Someone wants to mess with you? Well, a little scuffle and some strategic and pretty severe debuffs and now basically no one will believe them when they try to convince anyone of anything and they become as weak as a kitten and about as accurate when it comes to throwing a punch.

Well, Wizards are notoriously bad with cats. Maybe they'd still be a problem.


Unless the wizard has uncharacteristic Bluff, and a good understanding of child development, I think that a little cutting will be the least of the reasons people may treat him oddly.

This might be a problem. We should remember that a fully grown adult has been mashed into a 1 yr old's body. The kid will be acting weird enough to ruin any chance at stealth or fitting in. And if his foes notice that magical auras seem more likely around him, he's going to stick out like a sore thumb.

[ryu]

Level one wizards with no spell left and not built with any survivability have trouble with fully grown cats that on top of everything else are also harder to hit due to size difference. This is not a factor here.

[Lazymancer]

Are any of my choices illegal?

How are Teleport and Plane Shift not optimal choices for escaping capture?

If you're captured, how likely is it that a standard action vs a full round action really makes all that much difference?

Why would you waste slots on lower level spells, which are (more common and) cheaper to replace than higher level spells, if your spell book is destroyed?
1) No.
2) You are being deliberately contrarian again. I specifically pointed out that Teleport is great for Spell Mastery. But you still have to ask me why Teleport is bad for Spell Mastery.
3) Chance is low. But what you are optimizing for is not getting caught in the first place. I.e. being more efficient in-combat.
4) Because if you reserve only high-level slots for Uncanny Forethought, you'll be burning them on low-level spells you need to cast, but did not prepare. It makes much more sense to prepare high-level spell (especially if it is swift/immediate) instead and reserve lower-level slot.



But back2topic: I´d base this on a Human Arcanist (Eldritch Font/Magaambyan Initiate) 10/Magaambyan Arcanist 10, which a heavy focus on Divination. Free access to Spell Mastery as well as being able to use druid spells look solid. Occult Adventures raised the bar for Divination, Ultimate Intrigue has some of the most subtle casting options and pushed what Enchantments can do.
Not that I'm specialist on PF (I can't even tell if Arcanist needs daily access to spell-book to refresh spell slots - i.e. if it possible to cast old spells that were prepared before toddlerization), but in Pathfinder you should be able to summon your reserve spellbook from anywhere (as far as I understand, Secluded Grimoire is interplanar).

In PF, I'd go Spell Sage Wizard. On one hand this would mean access to bard/cleric/druid long-term/utility spells, on the other - no Spell Mastery (no reason for it, since Flexible Wizardry is atrociously bad), which means no spells to be converted via Spell Study (except for cantrips, apparently), unless spellbook could be summoned, of course.

Additional differences:
1) Cantrips at will (Prestidigitation)
2) Access to non-spell abilities. For Wizard that would mean semi-mandatory Time Stop that lasts 1 round. The other ability many PF Wizards might have would be summoning outsider (True Name). But it might not be the greatest idea, since it relies on Wizard being in position of strength (another mess I hate Pathfinder for - no actual mechanics was made to handle anything; GM has to design everything himself, otherwise he is bad GM).

[Florian]

@Lazymancer:

Partially right. Normally, Spell Mastery is Wiz only, but the Initiate archetype changes that for you, also giving it as a bonus feat (multiple times). That also means that you can swap out your already prepared spells known on the fly for those you have mastered. Halcyon magic adds spells from the druid list to that, so you can also have some lifesavers like Regeneration or Breath of Life on your emergency swap list, while Holy Arcana does the same for spells from the Good Domain. The good thing is that this is a Free Action, so you can immediately react to any situation.

Creating Mindscapes is often the superior option, because they only exist in your imagination. Unless you specifically anchor one to a place instead of carrying around inside your head, there´s no way to breach (or detect) it.

Researching True Names and handling them is more a thing of the sources you have available, here mostly what experience our hypothetical Wizard had before toddlerization. Hypercognition lets you recall anything, full details, about any creature you ever met and Mental Asylum lets you name a task, enter a Mindscape (with the Timeless planar trait switched on) of your own memory and go to work on it. So assuming you were a busy planeshopper before and hung out on some of the major planar metropolises, you´ve got an easy head start on it.

Edit: The science of Calling/Binding is something best left to people not afraid to deal with the lower planes, especially Hell. The beauty and power of a build centered on Blackfire Adept and Diabolist is the "Obey me!"-option, making the calling into a standard action and the binding into a move action, while Breaching the Rift re-enables summoning and teleport powers on everything you summon or call.

[Mordaedil]

And it applies to jobs as well. Less getting beat up, but you are still ostracized by your peers.
You learn to be very careful about displaying your gifts. You never call people on their stupidity, just let them screw things up, and let the boss find it, unless it involves actual physical danger.
My job is pointing out other's stupidity, sounds like you picked the wrong kind of work for your brilliance.

[Elkad]

My job is pointing out other's stupidity, sounds like you picked the wrong kind of work for your brilliance.

I tried an awful lot of kinds of work.

I did a short stint as QA - specifically pointing out other people's screwups and offering solutions. Nope, that was even worse than ignoring people, since I was supposed to figure out how to make them less-stupid?
Management was even worse, as I was then responsible for their screwups.
I don't have the patience for that.

Now I work for myself.

[Segev]

Now I work for myself.

Often the best solution, if you can figure out how to market your skills! Congratulations!


Silent Spell? Still Spell? No, his only limiting factors are a spell book, and eyes that can focus well enough to read. And maybe a proper sleep cycle.Silent and Still spell do still require that he had both feats AND had spells prepared with both before his infantilization; otherwise, he's still stuck waiting for coordination to return before he's ABLE to cast.

This does kind-of bring up again the question of whether a Still, Silent cantrip (assuming PF for a moment) is still treated like a cantrip, or is treated like a higher-level spell and thus expended. Can you have a 2nd level spell slot devoted to prestidigitation and use it at will with no physical sign you did it?


If he had to suffer through relearning bowel control, waiting until he is able to control his limbs is a small price to pay for Infinite Cosmic Power.Sure. But there's still the temptation to cast a spell or two. Hope the emotional control is there. Probably is, but "just how much of your personality is biological" may come up. Probably best to assume "very little" to keep from changing the parameters of the thought experiment, though.


Unless the wizard has uncharacteristic Bluff, and a good understanding of child development, I think that a little cutting will be the least of the reasons people may treat him oddly.

(...)

With a supreme intellect, cultural cluelessness, and a strange learning disability, he's a bully magnet, plain and simple.True. Making him a bully magnet is...thematically appropriate, too, I think.



Site has eaten my post twice now, but, short answer, he'll excel at PE, English, and maybe math, do ok in electives with untrained skills, struggle in science, and fail completely at foreign languages and history, under any but the most lax DM, unless he has magical aid.

And that's even before considering that, without UMD and magic/technology transparency, he'll have no way to ever make Use Technological Device rolls.

The "strange learning disability" is still a bit questionable to me. Take History, for instance. While I could certainly see a DM ruling that he doesn't get to roll K:History for something he never had a chance to learn in this setting, if he sat through history class and read the history book, would it not make sense for his K:History skill to at least let him roll for knowledge he could reasonably have absorbed from said book?

Possibly replacing breadth with depth and even trivial access: Yes, he DOES remember that factoid that was only mentioned in the caption of one picture in the 20 pages of last night's reading.

(Personal gripe of mine: my Sophomore History teacher in High School assigned mammoth amounts of reading every night, and gave quizzes on it the next day that were not over concepts, but over specific facts. At least once, the answer was, quite literally, something mentioned in a paragraph-long caption to a picture, and nowhere else. And it was a very specific factoid, not a conceptual question or even the broad point of the image!)

I'm less positive about excelling at PE. I mean, he's got a high Fort and Reflex save, but will his Athletics/Acrobatics/Climb/whatever really be all that high? Wizards aren't known for their high raw physical stats, either.


With +10 BAB, and maybe 20 HD, he should be able to make the bullies cry. Which is probably an even worse situation to be in.Definitely, as it would only invite the more "social bullying" archetype if he isn't careful. But...well, if he's known to be able to take any bullies that come at him, they will tend to leave him alone after a while. If it becomes mere ostricization, that might be preferable.

[Florian]

The Cultural Adaption spell is actually a nice tool to get that problem sorted out, along with "updating" what the knowledge and linguistics skills can do.

[Elkad]

I'm less positive about excelling at PE. I mean, he's got a high Fort and Reflex save, but will his Athletics/Acrobatics/Climb/whatever really be all that high? Wizards aren't known for their high raw physical stats, either.

So I roll a hit on the ball with my +10 BAB, instead of making an Athletics(Baseball) check. Sure, it'll go foul a lot, but I won't be whiffing and getting laughed at.

Or I could actually buff myself. Longstrider, Haste, Jump, Nerveskitter for reaction time, True Strike, etc.

[Lazymancer]

@Florian: Just so that we are clear: I'm not sure what half of your post is about. I'm still trying to grok Pathfinder. Did you give an answer whether or not regular Arcanist gets his spell slots refreshed after sleeping without spending an hour with spellbook?


Researching True Names and handling them is more a thing of the sources you have available, here mostly what experience our hypothetical Wizard had before toddlerization. Hypercognition lets you recall anything, full details, about any creature you ever met and Mental Asylum lets you name a task, enter a Mindscape (with the Timeless planar trait switched on) of your own memory and go to work on it. So assuming you were a busy planeshopper before and hung out on some of the major planar metropolises, you´ve got an easy head start on it.

Edit: The science of Calling/Binding is something best left to people not afraid to deal with the lower planes, especially Hell. The beauty and power of a build centered on Blackfire Adept and Diabolist is the "Obey me!"-option, making the calling into a standard action and the binding into a move action, while Breaching the Rift re-enables summoning and teleport powers on everything you summon or call.
True Name I'm talking about is a class feature: Wizard's bonus feat (aka "Arcane Discovery"). You get everything automatically (RAW you can get even protean who supposedly doesn't have a True Name - if you follow regular True Name rules for Binding), but there is little to no hard rules on what exactly you are getting.

If you have a class feature, it's supposed to be absolutely unambiguous. You don't get "wicked good at stabbing people" - that's in-game description. You (player or GM; not character) get specific number to add to attack rolls. It's called system. Agreement about meaning of the terms between all participants to facilitate game and not spend hours clarifying things: how much "wicked good at stabbing" needs to roll to hit someone "awesome at dodging"?

However, True Name rules schizophrenically state that there is no need pay - but payment must happen or there will be consequences. On top of this, there is nothing specific on what kind of payment is sufficient, what should not be ordered - and what are the goddamn consequences for breaking any of those unknown rules. Everything is completely up in the air. It's like "designers" of Paizo are so high on story-telling they are no longer capable of distinguishing classes from adventure paths and class features from plot hooks.

If there are trap options for players (bad options that look like good options), this is a trap option for GM: lack of rules that looks like a set of rules - until you encounter it mid-game, like a land-mine.



I'm less positive about excelling at PE. I mean, he's got a high Fort and Reflex save, but will his Athletics/Acrobatics/Climb/whatever really be all that high? Wizards aren't known for their high raw physical stats, either.
You do realize practically all kids are Commoners without skill ranks invested into Acrobatics or Climb?

[Gildedragon]

On the needing a spell book:
A) Polymorph it into a smartphone / transcribe the whole thing into a smartphone.
B) Have gone Eidetic Spellcaster

[Quertus]

The Cultural Adaption spell is actually a nice tool to get that problem sorted out, along with "updating" what the knowledge and linguistics skills can do.

Wow. Ok. Add "Cultural Adaptation" to my list of good spells to know.


Silent and Still spell do still require that he had both feats AND had spells prepared with both before his infantilization; otherwise, he's still stuck waiting for coordination to return before he's ABLE to cast.

Paranoid wizard without Silent, Still, and especially Eschew? Possible, I suppose...

But, even so, unless he somehow had a minion (leadership? himself via time travel?) holding a spell book for his baby self to read, I don't think this will actually come up.

And even then, he still can't get Mind Blank!


This does kind-of bring up again the question of whether a Still, Silent cantrip (assuming PF for a moment) is still treated like a cantrip, or is treated like a higher-level spell and thus expended. Can you have a 2nd level spell slot devoted to prestidigitation and use it at will with no physical sign you did it?

IIRC, conventional wisdom is that a twinned empowered maximized fell drain 3rd level spell is still a 3rd level spell for, say, spell storing. So... Yes?


Sure. But there's still the temptation to cast a spell or two. Hope the emotional control is there. Probably is, but "just how much of your personality is biological" may come up. Probably best to assume "very little" to keep from changing the parameters of the thought experiment, though.

Even if the temptation is there, well, he can't cast anything but his silent stilled spells until he's old enough to start cutting on himself. So that's no real "test of will" here.


True. Making him a bully magnet is...thematically appropriate, too, I think.




The "strange learning disability" is still a bit questionable to me. Take History, for instance. While I could certainly see a DM ruling that he doesn't get to roll K:History for something he never had a chance to learn in this setting, if he sat through history class and read the history book, would it not make sense for his K:History skill to at least let him roll for knowledge he could reasonably have absorbed from said book?

My knowledge of D&D history never helped me with learning WH40K history, let alone with the Civil War.


I'm less positive about excelling at PE. I mean, he's got a high Fort and Reflex save, but will his Athletics/Acrobatics/Climb/whatever really be all that high? Wizards aren't known for their high raw physical stats, either.

Aren't they? Wizard's need Int as primary, sure, but after that? Aren't Con and Dex usually your next picks?

High saves, sure, but high BAB will let you hit / catch extraordinarily well. Imagine the shots you could hit in soccer or tennis, or the passes you could throw/catch in football, or...

And 20 HD lets you take lots of subdual damage, from rough sports, or just pushing yourself.


Definitely, as it would only invite the more "social bullying" archetype if he isn't careful. But...well, if he's known to be able to take any bullies that come at him, they will tend to leave him alone after a while. If it becomes mere ostricization, that might be preferable.

Eh, a friend of mine tried that. By taking down the bullies, he became the measuring stick the bullies tested themselves by. He was in a fight almost every day, as all the bullies tried to be the one to take him down. I suspect this would be the fate of our idiot wizard unless he went full Ender Wiggins.

Also (and this is mostly for E.), I had teachers who graded on a curve. Much like in D&D, I asked, "are you sure?". Got a promise to make the highest grade a 100. I turned to my classmates, "hear that? He's said that if we all turn in blank tests, we all get a 100".

I'm proud to say, in the ensuing discussion, my class decided not to take that route, and took the tests fair and square. And, when I totally blew the curve, the teacher modified the curve to make the second highest grade a 100.

[Lazymancer]

And even then, he still can't get Mind Blank!
1. Item that allows to ignore somatic/verbal components (custom Weapons of Legacy).
2. Magic Jar into another creature and cast on toddler-self.
3. Polymorph into something that can cast.
4. Sudden Metamagic.


Even if the temptation is there, well, he can't cast anything but his silent stilled spells until he's old enough to start cutting on himself. So that's no real "test of will" here.
What is this obsession with scarification?

[Florian]

@Lacymancer:

My bad for assuming you know the conversation protocol on this. PF reuses a lot of terms for different things, so it´s common to designate when you mean a specific / subset with naming the source, when there´s a general item/rule going by the same name. Else we couldn't´t differentiate between "Occultist" and "Arcanist (Occultist)" to differentiate between the class and the archetype, or in our case "True Name" and "True Name (Arcane Discovery)".

The "Researching a True Name" rules have three parts to it: The Name, How to Bribe, How to Force. When you talk about the Arcane Discovery, that only covers the first part and is a short-cut for lazy Wizard players to get into calling, while being only a very small subset of the general rules covering this topic. If you want, I can guide you through the details, which are a lot more precise than you assume and which will explain why some players actually think that topic got even more powerful in PF than 3.5. But I think this is would derail this discussion a bit.

[Quertus]

1. Item that allows to ignore somatic/verbal components (custom Weapons of Legacy).
2. Magic Jar into another creature and cast on toddler-self.
3. Polymorph into something that can cast.
4. Sudden Metamagic.


What is this obsession with scarification?

Apparently, cutting is a technique to transfer memorized spells into a spell book... on your body. At least, that's what I've gathered from context.

Although I don't think you're going to level any time soon (thus the strange learning disability), and so #1 doesn't help, I admit I hadn't thought of #2 or #3, as they seem to go against the whole "cannot expedite the aging process" theme of the thread. But you're right, those would definitely be worth a shot.

#4 is simply a "you have it or you don't" thing.

[Coidzor]

I'm not so sure that Knowledge: History cares about being on a different plane. Especially with the kinds of crazy stuff a Wizard 20 would have access to as reading material.

Additionally, while they won't gain skill points by RAW for reading a book, they also don't instantly forget things they learned from reading that book, and since they can Autohypnosis themselves to memorize all knowledge they come into contact with and are hyper-intelligent, being able to pass a basic history course is a non-issue.

I can see learning how to use a computer and a microwave and so on in basic ways the same way that you don't have to make UMD checks to use a Command Word magic item.

[Florian]

as they seem to go against the whole "cannot expedite the aging process" theme of the thread.

Apparently being the only PF player here, therefore not chiming in with stuff like Ice Assassin, assumptions like these amuse me. I do like the spell Threefold Aspect, allowing to switch to and from the age categories young adult - adult - elderly and back to your original age with ease. So I can go Mr. Miyagi mode whenever I want and need to.

[Quertus]

Apparently being the only PF player here, therefore not chiming in with stuff like Ice Assassin, assumptions like these amuse me. I do like the spell Threefold Aspect, allowing to switch to and from the age categories young adult - adult - elderly and back to your original age with ease. So I can go Mr. Miyagi mode whenever I want and need to.

But...


Assume a properly paranoid 20th level wizard has, despite all his best efforts, managed to find himself compelled to re-live childhood as a modern American kid. He can't - for whatever contrived reasons you like - escape this fate and feign nor achieve adulthood faster than normal. However this happened, he also found himself bereft of his vast resources and even his spellbook - he has had, as he's grown up under adoptive parents, to painstakingly use spell research rules to re-create what spellbook he can, and to find time to make any magic items he can scavenge or scam his adoptive parents into buying the parts for.

So I'm guessing that spell just won't work, for reasons.

[Segev]

Tattoo spellbook is the technically defined way to scribe it onto your body. I suggested scarring as a potential equivalent that might be slightly less suspicious, if no less disturbing.

Just making a new spellbook is an option, though I hope you can disguise it as "Little Billy's pretend writing" or something.

[Gildedragon]

Tattoo spellbook is the technically defined way to scribe it onto your body. I suggested scarring as a potential equivalent that might be slightly less suspicious, if no less disturbing.

Just making a new spellbook is an option, though I hope you can disguise it as "Little Billy's pretend writing" or something.

Eldritch Macaroni and Glitter art

[Lazymancer]

Apparently, cutting is a technique to transfer memorized spells into a spell book... on your body. At least, that's what I've gathered from context.
Unless it's some Dragon Magazine stuff I can't remember (there was something, i think) it's either tattooing spellbook or scarification of scrolls (Blood Magus). Neither lets you ignore costs (in fact, tattoos cost double), so I'm a bit confused why it gets mentioned. Having regular spellbook makes more sense.


Although I don't think you're going to level any time soon (thus the strange learning disability), and so #1 doesn't help, I admit I hadn't thought of #2 or #3, as they seem to go against the whole "cannot expedite the aging process" theme of the thread. But you're right, those would definitely be worth a shot.

#4 is simply a "you have it or you don't" thing.
Well, yes. It's just it allows to cast spells without level-adjustment. I.e. Silent Still Mind Blank is possible. Arguably (as in - that's my personal opinion I have no intention to actually waste time arguing about), paranoid Wizards will choose Sudden variants of Silent/Still, rather than regular.

As for #1, it was more along the lines of "stuff from old life someone brought to you" (there was a talk about getting old spellbook; btw - Lore Gem arguably allows access to spells even to blind characters, though you'd be better off with beads or somesuch, if you are hardcore enough to play blind spellcaster).




The "Researching a True Name" rules have three parts to it: The Name, How to Bribe, How to Force. When you talk about the Arcane Discovery, that only covers the first part and is a short-cut for lazy Wizard players to get into calling, while being only a very small subset of the general rules covering this topic. If you want, I can guide you through the details, which are a lot more precise than you assume and which will explain why some players actually think that topic got even more powerful in PF than 3.5. But I think this is would derail this discussion a bit.
Wait. Are you telling me True Name (feat) doesn't actually let you order outsider around? You simply summon Glabrezu at 11th level without magic circle to contain it and it rips your throat out? That's all this feat does? You need to switch to regular rules for Planar Binding via True Name (not feat) to get any mileage out of it?

And - no. I don't think it got "powerful". It got borderline unplayable - only Corebook had some quality control. All too often nobody can even say how stuff supposed to work.

[Florian]

*Shrugs*
Yeah, you shouldn't do that with a Glabrezu. Stick to the save ones, grasshopper. ;)

[Lazymancer]

*Shrugs*
Yeah, you shouldn't do that with a Glabrezu. Stick to the save ones, grasshopper. ;)

And yet it explicitly allows to order it around:

Once per day, you can speak the common name by which the outsider is known, and the outsider travels to you as if you had cast planar binding upon it. It must obey you to the best of its ability, without pay or bargaining for its services, for its fear that you might release its true name to the wider world is enough to bring even the most recalcitrant of outsiders to bear.
Apparently, Pathfinder is even worse than i thought.

[Florian]

@Lazymancer:

You´re only using the free online sources, right? The problem heroes, they only reprint the pure mechanical stuff, which leads to some mess-ups in discussions when there´s a whole accompanying text that isn´t available online (due not being OGL).

[Lazymancer]

@Lazymancer:

You´re only using the free online sources, right? The problem heroes, they only reprint the pure mechanical stuff, which leads to some mess-ups in discussions when there´s a whole accompanying text that isn´t available online (due not being OGL).
I am quite certain I have access to the whole text of Ultimate Magic.

[Coidzor]

@Lazymancer:

You´re only using the free online sources, right? The problem heroes, they only reprint the pure mechanical stuff, which leads to some mess-ups in discussions when there´s a whole accompanying text that isn´t available online (due not being OGL).

Please don't just say things like that, it's really tiresome and drags things out.

Just get to your bloody point, man. Beating around the bush does no one any favors, as OP isn't in some kind of competition to see how many replies can be made to the thread.