Sea sorcerer discussion

[Hypersmith]

So I've seen threads on the other sorcerers, but not much on the sea sorcerer at all. Even in the UA thread where it was released, it was overshadowed by the other sorcerers. So I wanted to see some discussion. Great synergy in spells? The almost mandatory quickened meta magic? Multiclass viability? (warlock, hoo-wee). Cool uses? Stories to share? Odd combos (rogue/sorcerer)?

[Hypersmith]

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[EvilAnagram]

Personally, I really like the sea sorcerer. It's a very fun archetype that has class features that cover a lot of the more situational and fiddly spells that I don't usually take as a sorcerer, even though I really do enjoy having fiddly spells. They also managed to encourage you to use your thematic spells without resorting to the lazy static bonus to damage, and I like that a lot.


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That's adorable.

[Khrysaes]

I built a paladin/sea sorcerer. My goal was to recreate a Witcher, and the slow and knockback abilities of the level 1 sea sorcerer were great for those similar signs.

I havent used it in play yet. I should be doing so tonight.

It may be stronger than the draconic sorcerer, because of both its versatility and that it doesn't require sorcery points to use most of the abilities. It manages to get both aspects of the level 6 ability without using sorcery points, albeit the level 1 curse of the sea can only happen once per turn.

[Hypersmith]

I am currently playing a sea sorcerer who is about to multiclass paladin. I really wish I could trigger curse of the sea more often. Although it's a great ability for battlefield control, I don't feel like I use it much. I really really love the pushback when I can use it. Getting something like gust up then spamming cantrips against melee enemies is great. I get the feeling it'll be a lot more useful when I can move into a spot more freely, and then escape with watery defense if needed.

On the topic of watery defense, it's AMAZING. For just a reaction you can decrease damage by your sorcerer level + charisma *score*, so you can reduce tons of damage and get basically misty step. I also find it has great creative uses, especially since it recharges on a short rest. You're tied up? Have someone bite you then turn into water and escape!

[tieren]

I love the sea sorcerer, it was my favorite of the UA sorcerers and I really want to play one.

I recall being in several significant forum discussions about them the week of the UA so there are threads out there.

I really want to make a Yuan-ti pure blood sea sorcerer.

[Hypersmith]

What spells do you guys think work best with a sea sorcerer. Should one take thunderbolt? Is it worth the extra three or four damage?

[tieren]

What spells do you guys think work best with a sea sorcerer. Should one take thunderbolt? Is it worth the extra three or four damage?

I am not familiar with thunderbolt, do you mean thunderclap? lightning bolt?

Thunder as a damage type doesn't have any particular synergy with sea sorcerer.

I like lightning lure, gust, even frostbite. Chromatic orb can be adjusted to add damage (lightning) or slowing (cold) which is cool. Personally I see lightning lure being the most fun given how far you'll be able to jerk opponents around (unless DM rules they slam into you).

[Hypersmith]

I am not familiar with thunderbolt, do you mean thunderclap? lightning bolt?

Lightning bolt yes, I'm an idiot. Thunder wave is nice for some extra pushback, but overall I think chromatic orb is a better choice at early levels

[Khrysaes]

Lightning bolt yes, I'm an idiot. Thunder wave is nice for some extra pushback, but overall I think chromatic orb is a better choice at early levels

Lightning bolt + Sea sorc will allow you to deal a lot of damage. Not as good as a dragon sorcerer or undying light warlock with scorching ray, but ....


I just reread the sea sorcerer, and realized it is by no means as strong as I thought it was.

It takes 2 rounds to set up the curse. One round is a cantrip, the second is the spell that activates the curse. I guess with quicken it could be done in one.

I thought it was any time you cast you gain curse bonus if it has one of the 3 requirements. You can only do one of the 3 effects, and it only happen on one spell per turn.

This is much less useful, and I would suggest a different sorcerer type.

[tieren]

Lightning bolt + Sea sorc will allow you to deal a lot of damage. Not as good as a dragon sorcerer or undying light warlock with scorching ray, but ....


I just reread the sea sorcerer, and realized it is by no means as strong as I thought it was.

It takes 2 rounds to set up the curse. One round is a cantrip, the second is the spell that activates the curse. I guess with quicken it could be done in one.

I thought it was any time you cast you gain curse bonus if it has one of the 3 requirements. You can only do one of the 3 effects, and it only happen on one spell per turn.

This is much less useful, and I would suggest a different sorcerer type.

I disagree, if you are concentrating on a long term spell (like say storm sphere) you are most likely casting cantrips every turn anyway, or as you say you can intermix them with quickening other spells.

Most of the subclass abilities are defensive, resistance to fire, resistance to piercing, bludgeoning, slashing, half damage from OA's, movement with no OA's, etc... The curse effects are just gravy.

[Khrysaes]

I disagree, if you are concentrating on a long term spell (like say storm sphere) you are most likely casting cantrips every turn anyway, or as you say you can intermix them with quickening other spells.

Most of the subclass abilities are defensive, resistance to fire, resistance to piercing, bludgeoning, slashing, half damage from OA's, movement with no OA's, etc... The curse effects are just gravy.

I wanted it for the curse effects. However, I realized it is not what I wanted. It is still good defensively, but not what I was hoping for.

I usually don't think about concentration spells + cantrips, but that is a good point.

[Hypersmith]

I've spent some time playing one, so I have some firsthand thoughts. The curse triggers fairly often, especially with quicken. Depending on the DM, it can have its uses in crowd control and area effects. Pushing people off ships. Keeping them in the range of witch bolt, etc.

[Maxilian]

Are cantrips not spells? (wait it is... then why can't you trigger the curse with a cantrip that does one of the listed damage?)

[Khrysaes]

Are cantrips not spells? (wait it is... then why can't you trigger the curse with a cantrip that does one of the listed damage?)

They can, but it still likely takes multiple castings in order to activate the curse. Maybe with eldritch blast you could get away with a one casting, having 1 ray hit apply the curse, and the second trigger it.

[Maxilian]

They can, but it still likely takes multiple castings in order to activate the curse. Maybe with eldritch blast you could get away with a one casting, having 1 ray hit apply the curse, and the second trigger it.

But that would only be required in the first turn, because after you trigger the curse, if its with a cantrip, you don't remove it. (So this would be relevant only on turn 1 and not that much if you have something that hits multiple times (like EB))

I mean, the curses looks like something to mainly empower the cantrips (in a day to day fight) and sometimes help you have more control in the Battlefield with your big spells (as you will active the curse once)

[Hypersmith]

I mean, the curses looks like something to mainly empower the cantrips (in a day to day fight) and sometimes help you have more control in the Battlefield with your big spells (as you will active the curse once)

Pretty much. Nice for cantrip spam (twinned spell) or battlefield control by pushing people around really far

[Corran]

Other than multiclassing for repelling blast shenanighans, I dont see anything great with that origin.

[jaappleton]

Other than multiclassing for repelling blast shenanighans, I dont see anything great with that origin.

I love the lv6. Reduce damage by Charisma Score + Sorc level. Not Charisma Modifier. Score.

Assuming 18 Charisma, at lv6, reduce damage by 24 and get away safely every short rest.

[Hypersmith]

Also it's super cool flavor imo. The level 14 is sweet too. Essentially you can't be bound, and getting in and out of places is awesome.

[Corran]

I love the lv6. Reduce damage by Charisma Score + Sorc level. Not Charisma Modifier. Score.

Assuming 18 Charisma, at lv6, reduce damage by 24 and get away safely every short rest.
Huh?
You are right! Had to read it two times to believe it after you mentioned this. That's.... a lot of damage prevention.

Still, I remain not a bif fan of this origin. I like the idea, but there is nothing particular interesting in the way its mechanics demostrate IMO. I would hope for something that would make the use of spells like watery sphere and tsunami even better, or some water-themed powers that would allow for something more impressive than just building up some durability. I think they went this way because it would be hard to allow for more flavourfull features without making this origin terrain dependent (close to water or sth). Or perhaps it's good as is and I dont see it.

[jaappleton]

With the Sorcerer having more Cantrips than anybody, I think the Sea's effectiveness will depend on future spells.

For example: Right now, Lightning is a terrible damage type for Cantrips. It gets no love. There's Shocking Grasp, but that's Melee range and you've got a d6 HD. Hell no. There's Lightning Lure, but again, d6. I don't want to bring enemies closer!

So I think the general effectiveness is contingent on Spell support.

Additionally, why does it exist? I'm all for versatility. I'm all for tons of choices.

But doesn't the concept of Storm Sorcerer from SCAG already cover the Sea Sorcerer? Totally different mechanics, but the concept is the same. A LOT of the recent UA covers previously walked paths. Death and Grave Cleric, Life and Protection Cleric, Storm and Sea Sorc, etc.

I'm not complaining about that, as I love options. But why...? Then again, I don't think it's a new concept at all, to have multiple ways to build the same thematic character.

[The Eye]

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[TheWrathofshane]

CURSE OF THE SEA
When you choose this origin at 1st level, you learn the secret of infusing your spells with a watery curse.

When you hit a creature with a cantrip’s attack or when a creature fails a saving throw against your cantrip, you can curse the target until the end of your next turn or until you curse a different creature with this feature.

Once per turn when you cast a spell, you can trigger the curse if that spell deals cold or lightning damage to the cursed target or forces it to move. Doing so subjects the target to the appropriate additional effect below, and then the curse ends if the spell isn’t a cantrip (you choose the effect to use if more than one effect applies):


Correct me if I am mistaken, but it seems like you can apply the curse with booming blade, and then next turn trigger the curse with another booming blade, while reapplying. So if thats the case, seems like shadowblade/booming blade sorc is good for sea sorc with the mobile feat. Can do twinned spell to get 2 booming blade hits if adjacent enemies, and quickened spell to get 2 booming blades on one target. Note that the extra damage from moving doesnt stack if hit with multiple blades. You only get a single trigger from that.

Outside of that I cant think of a practical and consistent way to use this core sublass feature. Worth noting that subtle spell will allow you to cast booming blade and shadow blade underwater as well.

[Nhorianscum]

Sea is a weird but fun origin.

If you play it talk to your GM about variant fall damage and hurling things into walls/other things/straight up. Your knockback + slow + prone will make a warlock blush and has no "cannot deal move/fall" restrictions.

My DM was down with it when I used Paladin 2/Sea 1-7 (Quicken + twinned cause boring) in a short campain (3 sessions of like 12 hours each over a long weekend... don't judge me). I had a lot of fun straight launching things like it was smash bro's brawl with Tsmite + tidal wave + otherstuffs.

I suggest the name Konky Dong for true immersion.

Lightning lure is a must have.

[AHF]

CURSE OF THE SEA
When you choose this origin at 1st level, you learn the secret of infusing your spells with a watery curse.

When you hit a creature with a cantrip’s attack or when a creature fails a saving throw against your cantrip, you can curse the target until the end of your next turn or until you curse a different creature with this feature.

Once per turn when you cast a spell, you can trigger the curse if that spell deals cold or lightning damage to the cursed target or forces it to move. Doing so subjects the target to the appropriate additional effect below, and then the curse ends if the spell isn’t a cantrip (you choose the effect to use if more than one effect applies):


Correct me if I am mistaken, but it seems like you can apply the curse with booming blade, and then next turn trigger the curse with another booming blade, while reapplying. So if thats the case, seems like shadowblade/booming blade sorc is good for sea sorc with the mobile feat. Can do twinned spell to get 2 booming blade hits if adjacent enemies, and quickened spell to get 2 booming blades on one target. Note that the extra damage from moving doesnt stack if hit with multiple blades. You only get a single trigger from that.

Outside of that I cant think of a practical and consistent way to use this core sublass feature. Worth noting that subtle spell will allow you to cast booming blade and shadow blade underwater as well.

Booming blade doesn't deal cold or lightning damage or force the target to move. It does thunder damage.

[truemane]

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