Help me deal with the Multiclass Penalty

[RoboEmperor]

@_@

It's part of the RAW rule. My DM as a hardcore RAW person, will not waive the multiclass penalty. He allows crazy shenanigans as long as its RAW legal, but the downside is that he enforces stupid things like 25pb and multiclass penalty.

In my other thread, I'm trying to go a Sorcerer6/Marshal1 as an Aasimar, but Aasimar's favored class is Paladin, so you see the problem.

I need the Infernal Bargainer feat, which sole prerequisite is that I be an Outsider, which means I need a playable Outsider race with no penalty to intelligence or charisma, and at most an LA+1.

Anyone have suggestions to help me deal with this? This is the last hurdle I need to jump before I can finalize my character for a 1-20 level campaign.

[Chronikoce]

Otherworldy feat makes you a native outsider (requires you to be an elf, deep imaskari, or 3rd race I don't recall)

Don't know if that helps but it's all that came to mind

[RoboEmperor]

Otherworldy feat makes you a native outsider (requires you to be an elf, deep imaskari, or 3rd race I don't recall)

Don't know if that helps but it's all that came to mind

If it worked with humans it would've been 100% perfect >.<

Not sure if Native Outsider = Outsider though.

[Dagroth]

If it worked with humans it would've been 100% perfect >.<

Not sure if Native Outsider = Outsider though.

Native Outsider is actually "Outsider (Native)", which means an Outsider with the Native subtype... which Aasimar & Tieflings are as well.

[RoboEmperor]

Native Outsider is actually "Outsider (Native)", which means an Outsider with the Native subtype... which Aasimar & Tieflings are as well.

Alrighty. Awesome.

Also fixed a typo in my original post. Meant to say at most LA+1.

[animewatcha]

Any chance of aasimar being counted as 'half-human'? or you saying you are from 'chessentia of faerun' or equivalent place? If yes to number one, Diverse background feat. If yes to number two, Arcane schooling feat. Also a trick with marshal that is often used is to get skill focus diplomacy before taking marshal 1. That marshal 1 is used as a later 'bonus feat' that you qualify for later on something.

[Thurbane]

Diabolus (Dragon Compendium): LA +1, favoured class Sorcerer; no ability bonuses or penalties.

Every other one I can find either has a Cha or Int penalty, or an incompatible favoured class.

[RoboEmperor]

Diabolus (Dragon Compendium): LA +1, favoured class Sorcerer; no ability bonuses or penalties.

Every other one I can find either has a Cha or Int penalty, or an incompatible favoured class.

Damn, dragon compendium, the one book my DM doesn't allow because he hates Dragon Magazine with a passion.

If you say there isn't one, then I guess I'll give up...

Human v.s. Aasimar. I'll have to make a choice. Infernal Bargainer v.s. double charisma bonus for charisma checks, 3,000xp faster (buyoff), and higher concentration because of more skill points.

[Kaleph]

If I understand correcty, a human that counts as an outsider would work, right? In CoV the otherwordly feat is extended to all races, provided you introduce some celestial intervention in your birth.

This would work by RAW, but could be problematic flavorwise (which shouldn't be a problem with your DM).

[danielxcutter]

I think there's a feat called Extra Favored Class that does exactly as the name indicates... I think that was in one of the Eberron books?

[Mordaedil]

Have you considered taking the celestial bloodline instead?

[RoboEmperor]

If I understand correcty, a human that counts as an outsider would work, right? In CoV the otherwordly feat is extended to all races, provided you introduce some celestial intervention in your birth.

This would work by RAW, but could be problematic flavorwise (which shouldn't be a problem with your DM).

Why would it be problematic flavor wise? But yeah, this seems like the best option.


I think there's a feat called Extra Favored Class that does exactly as the name indicates... I think that was in one of the Eberron books?

I am 99.9999% sure this is homebrew


Have you considered taking the celestial bloodline instead?

How would this help me?

[danielxcutter]

I am 99.9999% sure this is homebrew

Looked it up. It's not homebrew, but it is Unearthed Arcana. Damn it. :smallannoyed:

[Thurbane]

Damn, dragon compendium, the one book my DM doesn't allow because he hates Dragon Magazine with a passion.

If you say there isn't one, then I guess I'll give up...

The next closest I found was Chaond (MM2): favored class any (first class taken) - but unfortunately it's stats are +4 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha.

You know, Dragon Compendium is an official "1st party" book, but if the DM has specifically banned it, not much that you can do.

[RoboEmperor]

Looked it up. It's not homebrew, but it is Unearthed Arcana. Damn it. :smallannoyed:

I found it. He allows Unearthed Arcana because he allows Flaws, but why do they call it a "House Rule" if it's in the goddamn book. Wtf is this??? Full Name: Additional Favored Class


The next closest I found was Chaond (MM2): favored class any (first class taken) - but unfortunately it's stats are +4 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha.

You know, Dragon Compendium is an official "1st party" book, but if the DM has specifically banned it, not much that you can do.

He says it's an "official 3rd party book". Has WotC license but was made by paizo.

[Mordaedil]

How would this help me?
Instead of being an Aasimar, you were to play a human with celestial bloodline, essentially. The benefit is only +1 and only comes in late, but intermediate bloodline should still let you have most of the flavor.

[danielxcutter]

I found it. He allows Unearthed Arcana because he allows Flaws, but why do they call it a "House Rule" if it's in the goddamn book. Wtf is this??? Full Name: Additional Favored Class

Because the book is literally a bunch of house rules made semi-official by WotC, if I remember correctly.

[Mordaedil]

Unearthed Arcana is basically a book that is full of half-realized ideas and the only real purpose of most of it is to allow people to think outside of the box and it is pretty brilliant for that reason.

It's not what I'd call an official book where you can bring whatever you want in front of the DM, but it certainly opens up a lot of options for how you can run a game.

[ShurikVch]

Spellscale from Races of the Dragon got +2 Cha/-2 Con, and Favored Class: Sorcerer, for LA: +0
Slap on it Mulhorandi Divine Minion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a), and there will be your Outsider with Cha bonus and LA +1

Another variant:
Chaos Gnome (Races of Stone) - +2 Cha, Con, and Dex/-2 Str, Favored Class: Sorcerer, LA: +1
Apply Petitioner (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineMinions.htm#creatingaPetitioner) template - it's LA +0*, and switch your Type to Outsider
Let's prove what "death is but the next great adventure"! :smallsmile:Usual hesitations about the Petitioner template:
You're dead! You can't adventuring anymore! Yes. Dead. So what? Ghosts are dead too, but able to adventuring just fine (ungodly LA aside)
Petitioner template don't have any listed LA! It's intended for NPCs! Actually, "no listed LA" on a template mean "LA +0"; templates which are intended as NPC-only must have "LA: -"
Planar Commitment locks you on your new home plane. You wouldn't be able to adventuring outside of it. Yes; but Petitioners of several planes have handy No Planar Commitment SQ, which did exactly what it says. Those planes are (AFAIK) Abyss, Barrens of Doom and Despair, Blood Rift, Celestia, Hades, and House of the Triad.

[Darrin]

No love for the Neraphim, huh? (Planar Handbook). No ability score penalties, no LA.

There are also Savage Progression template classes for Aasimar and Tiefling (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). These are Outsiders with slightly weakened racial abilities, thus LA +0. You can take a level in a "template class" to gain your full racial abilities, but... you don't absolutely have to take this template class if you don't want to. If you decide to never take it during your adventuring career, you're still a full-blooded Outsider with LA +0.

If Additional Favored Class or Diverse Background doesn't quite work for you, Arcane Schooling (PGtF) can give you Sorcerer as a favored class. However, this is a regional feat for FR.

[RoboEmperor]

No love for the Neraphim, huh? (Planar Handbook). No ability score penalties, no LA.

There are also Savage Progression template classes for Aasimar and Tiefling (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). These are Outsiders with slightly weakened racial abilities, thus LA +0. You can take a level in a "template class" to gain your full racial abilities, but... you don't absolutely have to take this template class if you don't want to. If you decide to never take it during your adventuring career, you're still a full-blooded Outsider with LA +0.

If Additional Favored Class or Diverse Background doesn't quite work for you, Arcane Schooling (PGtF) can give you Sorcerer as a favored class. However, this is a regional feat for FR.

I don't know how my DM will take the savage progression. He might view it as a little cheesy, but RAW is RAW XD.

Diverse Background is half-human exclusive. If you're saying Aasimar is half human, then I guess that could work. Regional feats are allowed so that could work too.

Thanks, I think I have a lot to go on now.

[Kaleph]

Why would it be problematic flavor wise? But yeah, this seems like the best option.

A celestial altered your nature when you were born, and you take the infernal bargainer feat? But yes, infernal bargainer may be fluffed in a similar way as the malkonvoker I believe, and it would make in this case sense - a man blessed by a chaotic good power, who cheats the infernal/abyssal creatures in the name of a higher good...not really BoED-style, but acceptable.

[RoboEmperor]

A celestial altered your nature when you were born, and you take the infernal bargainer feat? But yes, infernal bargainer may be fluffed in a similar way as the malkonvoker I believe, and it would make in this case sense - a man blessed by a chaotic good power, who cheats the infernal/abyssal creatures in the name of a higher good...not really BoED-style, but acceptable.

If I go that route I'm gonna make my backstory a tragedy and turn my character into neutral evil.

[Thurbane]

No love for the Neraphim, huh? (Planar Handbook). No ability score penalties, no LA.

Also, favoured class: Ranger, which does not work for the OP's purposes.

[animewatcha]

handy thing about becoming spellscale "with sacrafice of gp" is that you can keep your 'old race's ' favored class in addition to gaining sorceror for favored. So if were a half-elf that became a spellscale, you have "any" and "sorceror" for favored classes.

[Thurbane]

That's a good point, I keep forgetting that you can become Spellscale with a ritual: it's not as widely discussed as Dragonborn. Rite of Spellscale Assumption, RoTD p.31.

It is specifically for Humanoids only (unlike Dragonborn) though. If the aim was to use in combo with the Otherworldly feat, you will most likely lose the benefits of the feat after the rite, as you no longer meet the reqs.

[Crake]

Spellscale from Races of the Dragon got +2 Cha/-2 Con, and Favored Class: Sorcerer, for LA: +0
Slap on it Mulhorandi Divine Minion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a), and there will be your Outsider with Cha bonus and LA +1

Another variant:
Chaos Gnome (Races of Stone) - +2 Cha, Con, and Dex/-2 Str, Favored Class: Sorcerer, LA: +1
Apply Petitioner (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineMinions.htm#creatingaPetitioner) template - it's LA +0*, and switch your Type to Outsider
Let's prove what "death is but the next great adventure"! :smallsmile:Usual hesitations about the Petitioner template:
You're dead! You can't adventuring anymore! Yes. Dead. So what? Ghosts are dead too, but able to adventuring just fine (ungodly LA aside)
Petitioner template don't have any listed LA! It's intended for NPCs! Actually, "no listed LA" on a template mean "LA +0"; templates which are intended as NPC-only must have "LA: -"
Planar Commitment locks you on your new home plane. You wouldn't be able to adventuring outside of it. Yes; but Petitioners of several planes have handy No Planar Commitment SQ, which did exactly what it says. Those planes are (AFAIK) Abyss, Barrens of Doom and Despair, Blood Rift, Celestia, Hades, and House of the Triad.

the petitioner section literally says "The template presented below is for NPCs, not player characters." so it is quite clearly LA - rather than LA0

[ShurikVch]

the petitioner section literally says "The template presented below is for NPCs, not player characters." so it is quite clearly LA - rather than LA0It doesn't matter what it says - the whole thing is a copy from the Deities and Demigods
Manual of the Planes (with 3.5 update (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnD35_Manual_of_the_Planes.zip)) is newer, and have it's own variant of Petitioner (which is essentially the same, but without the whole "... not player characters" stick)
Player's Guide to Faerûn lists additional variants of Petitioners for FRCS cosmology, but don't have the template itself; however, the article mentioned Manual of the Planes multiple times, but not a once - Deities and Demigods. IMHO, it should mean variant from MotP is the working one, and one from DD - gone to trash bin