[3.5] Favourite Botched Stat Blocks?

[Thurbane]

We all know that WotC monster and NPC stat blocks were riddled with errors and all kind of weird stuff.

Just wondering what some of your favourite botched stat blocks from official 3E resources were?

I'll share some examples of mine as I find them.

Both of the sample Fiend-Blooded (HoH p.107): neither has way to legally qualify for the class. There is nothing in either stat block to show how a Sorcerer 6 got the required Knowledge (planes) 8 ranks. I mean, there's definitely ways to do this, but neither character has any of them. I can only assume the guy who came up with the PrC, clearly intended primarily for Sorcerers, though it was a class skill for them.

Cheers - T

[Vossler]

Poison dusk lizardfolk monster manual 2 the ranger

[ShurikVch]

Both of the sample Fiend-Blooded (HoH p.107): neither has way to legally qualify for the class. There is nothing in either stat block to show how a Sorcerer 6 got the required Knowledge (planes) 8 ranks. I mean, there's definitely ways to do this, but neither character has any of them. I can only assume the guy who came up with the PrC, clearly intended primarily for Sorcerers, though it was a class skill for them.Yenejg Togan's Planar Syllabus (Dungeon #88, p. 104): 4000 gp and three days to get Knowledge (planes) 8 :smallwink:

[danielxcutter]

Poison dusk lizardfolk monster manual 2 the ranger


Yenejg Togan's Planar Syllabus (Dungeon #88, p. 104): 4000 gp and three days to get Knowledge (planes) 8 :smallwink:

I need context for these like a Hellfire Warlock needs a Rod of Bodily Restoration.

[ShurikVch]

I need context for these like a Hellfire Warlock needs a Rod of Bodily Restoration.Yenejg Togan's Planar Syllabus is a magical book from "The Seventh Arm" adventure in Dungeon #88; it gives to whoever read it (which required either Comprehend Languages, or Decipher Script DC 25) for 3 days certain amount of ranks in Knowledge (planes) - regardless of reader's actual HD or if Knowledge (planes) a class skill or not; it cost 500 gp per rank of Knowledge (planes)

[danielxcutter]

Yenejg Togan's Planar Syllabus is a magical book from "The Seventh Arm" adventure in Dungeon #88; it gives to whoever read it (which required either Comprehend Languages, or Decipher Script DC 25) for 3 days certain amount of ranks in Knowledge (planes) - regardless of reader's actual HD or if Knowledge (planes) a class skill or not; it cost 500 gp per rank of Knowledge (planes)

#88? What version of D&D is that for?

[ShurikVch]

#88? What version of D&D is that for?D&D 3.0 (October 2001)

[Remuko]

I'm gonna put the Mummy Lord. I still can't believe it to be RAI that undead are supposed to have less than D12 hp per HD regardless of taking class levels. Maybe if undead had an easier, if not built in way, to get bonus HP with Con - I could believe it, but as is? I really just feel like the Mummy with Cleric levels is an error that got ignored in revisions.

[Thurbane]

I'm gonna put the Mummy Lord. I still can't believe it to be RAI that undead are supposed to have less than D12 hp per HD regardless of taking class levels. Maybe if undead had an easier, if not built in way, to get bonus HP with Con - I could believe it, but as is? I really just feel like the Mummy with Cleric levels is an error that got ignored in revisions.

Funnily enough, I think this one is accurate by RAW.

I've not seen a specific rules citation that says all Undead with class levels change class HD to d12. I mean, it's certainly written there in every Undead template I can think of (there's probably an exception- there always is), but I'm not aware of a default rule.

It may well be RAI, though.

[Pex]

I'm still fond of 2E where dolphins are Lawful Good and have an Intelligence of 11, remembering that the average for humans is 10.

I'm fuzzy on whether this was before or after "So Long And Thanks For All The Fish" since I'm not a fan of that series to know the publishing details.

[Friv]

I will always be a fan of the disastrously messed-up Carnival of Shadows from the 3.0 Scarred Lands Creature Collection, a book filled with messed-up stats and neat ideas.

The Carnival features alligator warriors with 6 HD, +9 to hit (which doesn't match a full or partial progression with only +4 Str) and AC 24 (+10 natural armour!), listed at CR 3. It has a CR 2 Plague Wretch which, if it touches you, forces a DC 18 Fortitude check that if you fail, causes you to lose 1 Con per twelve hours until you die, with no mundane way to cure the disease listed. Also it has DR 4/- so it's real resistant to stabbing. It has the utterly absurd and weirdly built Blood Kraken, a lovely little CR 5 monster that has 7 HD and a base attack set of "8 Tentacles +9 (1d6+3)", and anyone struck by a tentacle is held and takes automatic damage every round until the kraken dies with no save allowed, and also the Kraken casts all the spells in five domains as a Level 8 cleric and can maximize spells - no notes on how often it can cast those spells per day, since it specifically only has access to those domains. Maybe it prepares from that small spell list?

And of course, the Carnival King himself, who has 18 HD, DR 10/+1 and SR 24, casts spells as a Level 18 Sorcerer, and can completely restore his own HP and remove all of his debilities at will as often as he wants (which, just by itself is a bad idea) and has a CR of 10.

[Inevitability]

There's a demon in one of the monster manuals that has blindsense where it should've had blindsight. As a result, it's nearly unable to perceive its surroundings.

[Bohandas]

The description for the Sibriex' (FC1 pg.53) "Animate Chains" ability mentions the demon's polymorph any object spell-like ability. It has no such ability listed in its stat block

[ZamielVanWeber]

The siren PRC messed up and added the bonus from the Reverberation feat to the listed DCS without saying so. The example monster stat block did not acknowledge the mistake and thus was wrong in the right direction.

[Remuko]

Funnily enough, I think this one is accurate by RAW.

I've not seen a specific rules citation that says all Undead with class levels change class HD to d12. I mean, it's certainly written there in every Undead template I can think of (there's probably an exception- there always is), but I'm not aware of a default rule.

It may well be RAI, though.

Yeah I think its RAI so I'm claiming the mummy with D8 cleric hps is a "botched statblock". Afaik there's no other undead with class levels that doesn't use d12s for all of them.

[RedWarlock]

The MM Mummy isn't a template, tho, it's a concrete single creature. Liches, Ghosts, and Vampires are templates applied to pre-existing creatures who have character levels, and Zombies and Skeletons lose their class levels if they had any, whereas the Mummy is a standalone creature who *later* gains levels. Find another non-template-based undead-type creature with class levels, and then we can talk about a botched stat block.

(The Mummified Creature template in SS/LM is not at all the same thing. Use that if you want, but it doesn't make the MM Mummy or Mummy Lord wrong.)

[Remuko]

The MM Mummy isn't a template, tho, it's a concrete single creature. Liches, Ghosts, and Vampires are templates applied to pre-existing creatures who have character levels, and Zombies and Skeletons lose their class levels if they had any, whereas the Mummy is a standalone creature who *later* gains levels. Find another non-template-based undead-type creature with class levels, and then we can talk about a botched stat block.

(The Mummified Creature template in SS/LM is not at all the same thing. Use that if you want, but it doesn't make the MM Mummy or Mummy Lord wrong.)

I didn't say there was proof of it, but why would they make literally every undead template do it but not non-template undead? I just don't think it makes any sense so I think it makes more sense to view it as an error. Plus mummy should have been a template anyways like vampire is, most humanoid and monstrous humanoids (and probably others) should have been able to be made into MM style mummies without them having to make up a separate template. That template feels like a bandage (hah puns) to fix the fact that mummy wasn't designed with PCs in mind originally.

[Kaleph]

Almost all entries in deities' stats (deities and demigods) are wrong - which makes perfectly sense, because stat blocks for deities is a botched idea in the first place.

[Thurbane]

I didn't say there was proof of it, but why would they make literally every undead template do it but not non-template undead? I just don't think it makes any sense so I think it makes more sense to view it as an error. Plus mummy should have been a template anyways like vampire is, most humanoid and monstrous humanoids (and probably others) should have been able to be made into MM style mummies without them having to make up a separate template. That template feels like a bandage (hah puns) to fix the fact that mummy wasn't designed with PCs in mind originally.

Just FYI, there is the Mummified Creature template in Savage Species. It might better represent what you are looking for.

[gkathellar]

Really, pick a stat block from FR's Player's Guide, and there's at least one error.

[Eldan]

I'm still fond of 2E where dolphins are Lawful Good and have an Intelligence of 11, remembering that the average for humans is 10.

I'm fuzzy on whether this was before or after "So Long And Thanks For All The Fish" since I'm not a fan of that series to know the publishing details.

That's ridiculous. Dolphins are clearly neutral evil.

[Gemini476]

I'm still fond of 2E where dolphins are Lawful Good and have an Intelligence of 11, remembering that the average for humans is 10.

I'm fuzzy on whether this was before or after "So Long And Thanks For All The Fish" since I'm not a fan of that series to know the publishing details.

AD&D 1E Monster Manual 1 has the Dolphin as Lawful Good with an intelligence of "Very" - that being 11-12, higher than "8-10 Average (human) intelligence". Although it's worth noting that the actual Men in the Monster Manual have "INTELLIGENCE: Mean: average to very", presumably because the mean is 10.5.

So it's been a thing since at least 1977, two years before H2G2 and seven before So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

I think it's probably more directly a result of John C. Lilly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly)'s ketamine-addled experiments on dolphins in the '60s - there was a sincere belief that dolphins might very well be hyper-intelligent back then that both D&D and H2G2 latched on to.
Or, if John C. Lilly was to be believed, that dolphins were the link to communicating with the alien intelligence known as E.C.C.O. (This is where Ecco the Dolphin got its inspiration, by the by.)

To quote Wikipedia's summary:

He was a researcher of the nature of consciousness using mainly isolation tanks,[1] dolphin communication, and psychedelic drugs, sometimes in combination.