What to do with Prestidigitation?

[danielxcutter]

I've heard that it's a really nice cantrip, since all you need is a bit of creativity. I guess so, and I'd probably buy an Eternal Wand of one if I have enough spare change, but I'd like to hear a few more specific examples. Preferably ones that are somewhat less obvious than "make the Everlasting Rations we bought taste better" and "save money on soap".

[Darrin]

Tome & Blood page 80 is a very good read. I try to make sure that every arcane caster that sits down at my table has a photocopy of that page.

[danielxcutter]

Tome & Blood page 80 is a very good read. I try to make sure that every arcane caster that sits down at my table has a photocopy of that page.

Don't have it, sadly.

[Inevitability]

Don't have it, sadly.

I believe Darrin is referring to this (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707), fortunately also available online.

Notably, it allows one to make objects entirely immune to lava by dampening them and quickly refill caltrop and flour bags by gathering the material.

[Celestia]

Turn all your copper pieces into platinum pieces and buy something really cool. Then flee town because you've only got an hour before they change back.

[Jowgen]

The sketch function is very handy for quickly getting information accross, as you can project an image of literally anything you can imagine.

Explain the layout of an area or building to allies. Show the local sage what creature, symbol or a person of interest looks like without doing a lengthy description. That kinda stuff.

[NOhara24]

Turn all your copper pieces into platinum pieces and buy something really cool. Then flee town because you've only got an hour before they change back.

Changing the physical element of an object falls outside the capabilities of prestidigitation, IMO. Although if the player told me their idea, I'd probably allow it as long as they were prepared to accept any consequences that would befall them as a result of this.

[danielxcutter]

I believe Darrin is referring to this (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707), fortunately also available online.

Woot! Thanks!


Notably, it allows one to make objects entirely immune to lava by dampening them and quickly refill caltrop and flour bags by gathering the material.

Lol. I think most DMs won't be too pleased by that...


Turn all your copper pieces into platinum pieces and buy something really cool. Then flee town because you've only got an hour before they change back.

Lol x 53. Can you do that?


The sketch function is very handy for quickly getting information accross, as you can project an image of literally anything you can imagine.

Explain the layout of an area or building to allies. Show the local sage what creature, symbol or a person of interest looks like without doing a lengthy description. That kinda stuff.

Nice.

[Celestia]

Changing the physical element of an object falls outside the capabilities of prestidigitation, IMO. Although if the player told me their idea, I'd probably allow it as long as they were prepared to accept any consequences that would befall them as a result of this.

Change: You transform one object of Fine size or smaller into another object of roughly the same size. The object can weigh no more than 8 ounces.

The change must be within the same kingdom (animal, vegetable, or mineral). For example, you could change a piece of paper into scrap of linen, and then change that into a rose. Likewise, you could change a coin into a ring. You could not, however, turn a strip of leather into a piece of paper
This line has been intentionally left blank.

[Deophaun]

Turn all your copper pieces into platinum pieces and buy something really cool. Then flee town because you've only got an hour before they change back.
Going with that, a Small dagger is within the weight limit for prestidigitation to turn it adamantine. Universal lock pick at level 1!

I've also used prestidigitation for detection when a DM threw roaming AMFs at us as a terrain hazard: ripped up a sack and turned the scraps neon-orange, and did the same with the ranger's arrows. Let me know which allies and which enemies I could cast on without risk of spell failure.

[Afgncaap5]

To date, I think my favorite use of Prestidigitation was when I needed to get something from a chef. I told him I could give him the best seasoning he'd ever tasted, but that the seasoning had no preservatives and so, after I prepared it, it would only last an hour. He said he'd have to taste it first, so I just spent a few copper on a healthy dose of pepper, cast prestidigitation on it to alter its flavor to something amazing, and traded away.

Also, with a DM who permits somewhat broader interpretations of "minor magical tricks" to include things that fall outside the purview of the things stated, you can basically just make yourself appear awesome. My GMs really seem to like it when my character makes a flock of doves and flashes of light accompany me whenever I open doors to enter rooms, for instance (the doves themselves vanishing into thin air moments later, of course.) I also had a GM allow one character who was a stage magician to use it to make a cloud of playing cards spiral around him in a cloud constantly.

[NOhara24]

-Snip-

Okay, great. You've copy-pasted one of the capabilities of Prestidigitation. That doesn't change the fact that what you're describing is Alchemy, and falls under its own system in 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm)

[Deophaun]

Okay, great. You've copy-pasted one of the capabilities of Prestidigitation. That doesn't change the fact that what you're describing is Alchemy, and falls under its own system in 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm)
A) Not it's not (What's the DC for a platinum piece?)
B) Even if it was, there's nothing in the spell description for prestidigitation that prevents it from performing alchemy. It's prohibited from reproducing spells, not skills.

[Segev]

Actually being able to use it to make even small weapons into weapons with special material properties seems a bit strong for the spell. That doesn't necessarily mean the RAW don't permit it, but we should be very careful to be certain.

Can you make a normal dagger adamantine and thus overcome DR? What about (alchemical) silver? Cold iron? That metal that sucks down souls?

[Celestia]

Okay, great. You've copy-pasted one of the capabilities of Prestidigitation. That doesn't change the fact that what you're describing is Alchemy, and falls under its own system in 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm)
This is the most blatant willful ignorance I've ever seen. I didn't even suggest something weird. That description literally even mentions changing coins into other things

[Honest Tiefling]

It's a spell to get the smell of smoke out of your clothes and clean yourself of any blood paint you might have accidentally gotten onto yourself. If that's not enough reason to get it on its own, I don't know what is.

[NOhara24]

A) Not it's not (What's the DC for a platinum piece?)
B) Even if it was, there's nothing in the spell description for prestidigitation that prevents it from performing alchemy. It's prohibited from reproducing spells, not skills.

A) Yes it is, actually. Common aims for Alchemy were Chrysopoeia; the changing of less valuable metals into more valuable ones. (The traditional example being lead to gold.) Copper to platinum definitely qualifies here. The DC for a platinum piece is a 10 (Typical Item) or 15 (High-Quality Item) dependent on how the DM feels about currency. Seen here:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm

B) Correct, and in this instance it would qualify as a transmutation...meaning it would be copying Polymorph Any Object. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Polymorph_Any_Object)

[NOhara24]

This is the most blatant willful ignorance I've ever seen. I didn't even suggest something weird. That description literally even mentions changing coins into other things

It mentions turning a coin into a ring...meaning a copper coin would be a copper ring.

[Celestia]

It mentions turning a coin into a ring...meaning a copper coin would be a copper ring.
A. It says nothing about the materials of the coin or ring or specify that they must be the same.

B. It specifically states that changing material is a function of the spell and lists turning paper into linen as an example.

You literally have zero basis for your argument.

[Deophaun]

A) Yes it is, actually. Common aims for Alchemy were Chrysopoeia; the changing of less valuable metals into more valuable ones. (The traditional example being lead to gold.)
Traditional where? What source book? PHB? DMG? MM? Which one?

I do not give a flying fig about Newton in this discussion: RL is not D&D. Give me a page number.

Copper to platinum definitely qualifies here. The DC for a platinum piece is a 10 (Typical Item) or 15 (High-Quality Item) dependent on how the DM feels about currency. Seen here:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm
You'll note that alchemy doesn't actually follow that rule. The typical alchemical item is atypical.

B) Correct, and in this instance it would qualify as a transmutation...meaning it would be copying Polymorph Any Object. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Polymorph_Any_Object)
Yes, but you did not hinge your argument on that. You hinged your argument on it not being able to imitate a skill.

So, since you admit that I am correct, you admit your argument was completely without merit. Good. glad that's settled.

[CharonsHelper]

I've used it to clear our tracks while we walked so that no one would notice us. (An official rule from Pathfinder module Library of the Lion)

Of course that character (bard) mostly uses it to make sure that he and his clothing are always look pristine.


A. It says nothing about the materials of the coin or ring or specify that they must be the same.

B. It specifically states that changing material is a function of the spell and lists turning paper into linen as an example.

You literally have zero basis for your argument.

That being the case - I choose to turn a copper coin into a +5 ring of protection! It doesn't specifically say that I can't!

[Bullet06320]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444094-About-cantips-prestidigitations

[NOhara24]

A. It says nothing about the materials of the coin or ring or specify that they must be the same.

B. It specifically states that changing material is a function of the spell and lists turning paper into linen as an example.

You literally have zero basis for your argument.

This has already been pointed out, but by your argument you could turn any coin into any ring...this is a level zero spell. You cannot take a copper coin and turn it into a golden diamond ring with a level zero spell, unless we're giving arcane casters polymorph any object at level 1. Paper to linen is pointed out because they're made from the same thing...copper and platinum are two very different things. Any DM who says "eh, they're both metal, close enough." Should not be behind the DM's screen.

[Celestia]

This has already been pointed out, but by your argument you could turn any coin into any ring...this is a level zero spell. You cannot take a copper coin and turn it into a golden diamond ring with a level zero spell, unless we're giving arcane casters polymorph any object at level 1. Paper to linen is pointed out because they're made from the same thing...copper and platinum are two very different things. Any DM who says "eh, they're both metal, close enough." Should not be behind the DM's screen.
What world are you living in? Paper and linen are not remotely made of the same thing. You are grasping at straws here. And then claiming that it's the same thing as corn.

And you can turn any coin into any ring, as long as they're both in the same "kingdom" as defined as plant, animal, or mineral. That is exactly what the spell says it does.

[Gildedragon]

You can use it to splice several lengths of rope together
Re: the coin to dagger, if the metal must stay the same: shuriken into dagger, a lockpick into a key (or vice-versa), a dagger into a bracelet (so as to sneak it into the no-weapons-allowed place)

[Honest Tiefling]

What world are you living in? Paper and linen are not remotely made of the same thing. You are grasping at straws here. And then claiming that it's the same thing as corn.

I think he means that both are made of plant fiber, which while different do have some similarities. I'd also say both kinda fall into the plant kingdom because of that.

[Inevitability]

Paper and linen are not remotely made of the same thing. You are grasping at straws here. And then claiming that it's the same thing as corn.

Discussion notwithstanding, I'd like to sig this.


I think he means that both are made of plant fiber, which while different do have some similarities. I'd also say both kinda fall into the plant kingdom because of that.

This goes for copper and platinum as well, though. Both are metals, they have a similar atomic structure, and they're both part of the mineral kingdom.

[Celestia]

Discussion notwithstanding, I'd like to sig this.



This goes for copper and platinum as well, though. Both are metals, they have a similar atomic structure, and they're both part of the mineral kingdom.
Yay! My first sigged quote! :3

[Segev]

Correct, and in this instance it would qualify as a transmutation...meaning it would be copying Polymorph Any Object. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Polymorph_Any_Object)

Eh, by that logic, you've obviated the clause he quoted as actually being able to do anything at all, since PAO can be used to transmute anything to anything, and thus all changes of one object to another (despite being called out explicitly as doable by prestidigitation) are disallowed for duplicating PAO.

[Deophaun]

Eh, by that logic, you've obviated the clause he quoted as actually being able to do anything at all, since PAO can be used to transmute anything to anything, and thus all changes of one object to another (despite being called out explicitly as doable by prestidigitation) are disallowed for duplicating PAO.
Tome and Blood is 3.0, so it's reasonable to drop the feature in the update to 3.5. Although I don't know what prestidigitation's actual text was in 3.0.

But, that's an entirely different argument and one that is a complete judgement call.

[Segev]

Tome and Blood is 3.0, so it's reasonable to drop the feature in the update to 3.5. Although I don't know what prestidigitation's actual text was in 3.0.

But, that's an entirely different argument and one that is a complete judgement call.

It's flimsy, but technically the RAW for 3.5 is that anything printed 3.0 that is not reprinted with different rules in 3.5 is still legal in 3.5. Flimsy on two fronts, because one could argue that the reprinting of prestidigitation failing to include the expanded capabilities means it was reprinted to override (but, since no "expanded capabilities" discussion was printed, that isn't quite true), and because it's still 3.0 and insisting that all 3.0 that hasn't been explicitly overridden is RAW legal is...well, flimsy.

[Krobar]

Perfectly cold beer. Every time.

[Gildedragon]

Within the capacities: probably making the ground or mattresses or pillows feel softer or harder with regards to laying on it to sleep; it falls within the criteria of a small effect that isn't replicated by other spells

altering the timbre of a musical instrument

[Baby Gary]

you guys seem to be forgetting the duration of prestidigitation, an hour IIRC, whereas polymorph is permanent, also IIRC. Im away from my books at so moment (I know, how could I :smalleek:) so what I said might be wrong.

[Mordaedil]

With regards to turning copper pieces into platinum pieces, it doesn't actually have to be platinum pieces as long as they look like platinum pieces to the shopkeeper.

[Segev]

If the coin-metal-change is legal, then I'd suggest silver to platinum rather than copper to platinum. Even when the spell wears off, he might not notice immediately, and might think it at least in part his mistake for not noticing the difference if and when he does notice.

I mean, yeah, it's only an x100 value multiplier rather than an x1000, but...

[Luccan]

So, it's up in the air whether or not it's still okay to include the Tome and Blood page, but obviously a DM can choose to do so if they wish. If they do use it, I see no reason the coin change wouldn't work, by the rules of that page. Prestidigitation can't reproduce another spell effect, but even if you argue the Craft (Alchemy) skill supports the traditional uses of alchemy (even though it does not seem to mention it), that doesn't mean Prestidigitation can't do it, albeit temporarily. Both copper and platinum would seem to count as part of the minerals group and we've already acknowledged that paper can turn into that which it is not (linen), because they're both plant based. It has been pointed out that since PAO can do this, Prestidigitation can't. But since specific trumps general, it would seem in this instance Prestidigitation can be used to minorly duplicate a part of PAO for an hour at most. This assumes you use those rules of course.

I would argue that since there are several uses of the spell not mentioned in the 3.5 description, you aren't supposed to be able to do them, but there's no denying that the 3.0 version seems both cooler and more useful.

[Deophaun]

I will point out with that trick that it's only a DC 20 Spellcraft check to identify the coin as having been subject to prestidigitation, and that any merchant trading in valuable goods should be an Expert, not Commoner, and have Spellcraft as a class skill because of all the shenanigans that go on with magic. At least, the successful ones will through social evolution.

Tavern keeps and stall owners might not be so fortunate in their training, but you probably don't want to be paying for your rooms with phony platinum if you want to see the marrow.

The adamantine dagger at level 1 is probably more of an issue.

[Gildedragon]

Ooooh!
Prestidigitation the ranger's arrows into Serrenwood!
Heck turn a bunch of wood-pulp pages into Serrenwood arrows

[Deophaun]

Ooooh!
Prestidigitation the ranger's arrows into Serrenwood!
Heck turn a bunch of wood-pulp pages into Serrenwood arrows
See? More of an issue. This is why I would take that feature out of the T&B update, not for any "get rich quick by ripping off peasants" scheme.

Also, who needs Open Lock or knock when you can just prestidigitation a spoon into a key?

[Gildedragon]

See? More of an issue. This is why I would take that feature out of the T&B update, not for any "get rich quick by ripping off peasants" scheme.

Also, who needs Open Lock or knock when you can just prestidigitation a spoon into a key?

Well you'd need to know what the key is like...
Also the paper into Serrenwood arrows/clubs is probably to the party's benefit: gives the martials something to fend off incorporeals with

[Luccan]

See? More of an issue. This is why I would take that feature out of the T&B update, not for any "get rich quick by ripping off peasants" scheme.

Also, who needs Open Lock or knock when you can just prestidigitation a spoon into a key?

People who don't know what the original key was shaped like? I'd probably allow an untrained Open Lock check if you were willing to take extra time to go through every possible key shape on a lock, but just going "I turn the spoon into a key" shouldn't fly, at least not for well designed locks.

[Gildedragon]

People who don't know what the original key was shaped like? I'd probably allow an untrained Open Lock check if you were willing to take extra time to go through every possible key shape on a lock, but just going "I turn the spoon into a key" shouldn't fly, at least not for well designed locks.

It'd be great if one managed to sneakily aquire a wax impression of the key.
Original key is left behind, so as to avoid rousing suspicions.

Leather into a steak?
A club into a loaf of bread?

[Luccan]

It'd be great if one managed to sneakily aquire a wax impression of the key.
Original key is left behind, so as to avoid rousing suspicions.

True. I've always wanted to run or be part of a game with a bunch of experts and warriors who can acquire low level spells through feats. Make it an espionage/political type of game. The T&B version of Prestidigitation would be great for this


Leather into a steak?
A club into a loaf of bread?

The club might be too large, but even just a piece of wood... You couldn't digest that in time, could you? :smalleek:

[Deophaun]

People who don't know what the original key was shaped like?
I don't really need to know what the original key looks like, because I can turn sap into rubber and take a mould of the inside of the lock.

[Calthropstu]

Oh the hijinks you can perform.
You can change the captain of the guard's uniform pink.
You can make the people's food at the next table over taste rancid.
You can clean hobos.
You can make your **** smell like roses.
So much fun to be had.

[Gildedragon]

I don't really need to know what the original key looks like, because I can turn sap into rubber and take a mould of the inside of the lock.

Turn the hinges into quicksilver
Or the hinges' pins into needles

Jam a clockwork by dirtying it up

Mark one's path through a maze by dirtying or cleaning the walls

Make friends by always having a light for anyone's pipe/cigar(ette)

[Luccan]

Is ice technically a material? If so, what could I change it in to?

Surely ice would count as a mineral, rather than a plant or animal.

Edit: If I had a dead frog, turned it into a mouse, and then brought it to life (or turned it into an undead), would it now be a (possibly undead) mouse or a frog?

[Jay R]

In the last few games, we've used it for the following:


After having to wade through the stinky pool in the guano cave, removing all traces of smell so we aren't automatically found.
Cleaning our appearance before seeing the king after weeks in the wilderness.
While tracking down what happened to a wagonload of special halfling mead, being able to show people what it tastes like and asking if they have tasted any.
Feeding superior food to our guests, to get on their good side, prior to questioning them.
Picking up spilled food after our cart-horses bolted.

[Ashtagon]

This has already been pointed out, but by your argument you could turn any coin into any ring...this is a level zero spell. You cannot take a copper coin and turn it into a golden diamond ring with a level zero spell, unless we're giving arcane casters polymorph any object at level 1. Paper to linen is pointed out because they're made from the same thing...copper and platinum are two very different things. Any DM who says "eh, they're both metal, close enough." Should not be behind the DM's screen.

"Paper to linen is pointed out because they're made from the same thing"

:confused:

Where I come from, linen is made from flax plants (aka linseed), and paper from trees.

Are your clothes made from trees?

Addressing the primary question, I'd certainly allow copper to gold, and similar transformations that stay within their respective "kingdom (animal-vegetable-mineral). However, the spell expires after one hour. One other thing I would definitely add to the spell is that any material so transformed retains its original gross physical properties. You can transform a fistful of copper coins into an adamantium dagger, but the adamantium is purely for show; it retains the physical hardness of copper. Similarly, copper coins transmuted to gold will certainly have the visual appearance of gold, but any money-changer who performs physical tests on the coins would detect that something is not right with these coins. Similarly, if you transform a random rock into a diamond and try to sell it, the merchant will probably be suspicious when that diamond fails a scratch test.

[Jay R]

"Paper to linen is pointed out because they're made from the same thing"

:confused:

Where I come from, linen is made from flax plants (aka linseed), and paper from trees.

Any plant is in large part composed of the same elements as any other plant: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus, and a very few others.

By contrast, copper and platinum are different elements.

I'd still allow changing any mineral to any other, because I don't think modern science is at issue here. But yes, linen and paper do have largely the same elements.

[Ashtagon]

Any plant is in large part composed of the same elements as any other plant: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus, and a very few others.

By contrast, copper and platinum are different elements.

I'd still allow changing any mineral to any other, because I don't think modern science is at issue here. But yes, linen and paper do have largely the same elements.

"carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus"

None of that stuff exists in D&D. Modern chemistry is not real in D&D. The number of elements totals four, not a hundred and something.

[Luccan]

"carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus"

None of that stuff exists in D&D. Modern chemistry is not real in D&D. The number of elements totals four, not a hundred and something.

I'm not sure chemistry doesn't work in D&D, it just also has to contend with magical factors and supernatural forces not present in our world. More to the point, the important thing here is that both are considered minerals. This covers their conversion back and forth entirely. It doesn't matter whether they're different elements here or just made of Earth in D&D, as both are minerals, they can change back and forth regardless.

[zergling.exe]

"Paper to linen is pointed out because they're made from the same thing"

:confused:

Where I come from, linen is made from flax plants (aka linseed), and paper from trees.

Are your clothes made from trees?

Well Egypt made clothes and paper out of the same thing, so...

Papyrus was a weed that grew wildly along the banks of the Nile River. It grew about 10 feet high. It was used to make everything! The ancient Egyptians used papyrus to make paper, baskets, sandals, mats, rope, blankets, tables, chairs, mattresses, medicine, perfume, food, and clothes.
Also I think medieval Europe (which is what most D&D tries to emulate) used more cloth-y paper than the tree based paper we know.

Also this thread has cemented by decision to ban prestidigitation from any game I run. :smalltongue:

[Celestia]

Also I think medieval Europe (which is what most D&D tries to emulate) used more cloth-y paper than the tree based paper we know.
That would be called parchment; it was made from animal hide.

[Honest Tiefling]

That would be called parchment; it was made from animal hide.

Actually, no. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_paper) Still plant pulp at the end of the day, since I don't think there was an equivalent with animal fibers (wool or silk).

[Celestia]

Actually, no. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_paper) Still plant pulp at the end of the day, since I don't think there was an equivalent with animal fibers (wool or silk).
Sweetie, that's the link to paper. We're talking about parchment (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_paper).

[Deophaun]

Sweetie, that's the link to paper. We're talking about parchment (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_paper).
As is that. I think you're looking for this (https://infogalactic.com/info/Parchment).

[Honest Tiefling]

Sweetie, that's the link to paper. We're talking about parchment (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_paper).

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant that there was rag-paper in use that wasn't derived from animal fibers, but plant fibers, as opposed to ancient parchment which was formed from hides.

[Afgncaap5]

Would I allow Prestidigitation to create platinum? Nnnno, no not quite.

But I *might* allow it to create a metal that looks and behaves like Platinum to the untrained eye. This is also something that feels like it should very by setting: if platinum coins are only about as rare as C-Notes in our world, it gets easier. If only the Ancient Empires used platinum coins and they're more exotic, then this would probably get harder.

For a player pulling this off, my answer would be "Yes, you can do that" and then I'd use some combination of a Craft (Minting) or Craft (Coining) check, a Bluff check, and mmmmaybe a Spellcraft check.


Prestidigitation's results are notoriously crude and fake looking when it's a pure creation, though since this is merely alteration I suppose some player skill might be warranted to replicate the picture of the King or Queen or Famous Artist on the money, so failure on the Craft check might cause the image on the coin (or sudden lack thereof) to be apparent to a bartender, notable for being someone who handles coins all day.

The Bluff check, meanwhile, could be used to keep a bartender from looking at the coin too closely. "Here's my fee and WHAT IN THE WORLD COULD THAT BE Oh wait theres nothing sorry eyes playing tricks on me wheres my ale." This may not be necessary for particularly stupid Ogres and their sort.

And failing all that, there's the Spellcraft check to "just let my magic work the way I want it to without all these dumb house rules and extra rolls for once I swear", a very obscure use of the Spellcraft skill but one I always encourage. The GM rolls this one, though: failure means that the bartender will probably accept the coins but will quickly realize it has the caster's face on it instead of the king's along with a phrase that's probably a hacked attempt at making a joke from the phrase E Pluribus Unum.

[Luccan]

I don't see what the problem is with turning them to platinum. Yeah, it allows them to throw around a ton of money they don't have, but not only does that transformation only last an hour, the majority of people who they would need to use that trick on probably have the means of tracking them down and making them regret it. If they cheat an innkeeper or regular shop keep, they're jerks, but why are they in a situation where the PCs can't afford basic services?

[Honest Tiefling]

I don't see what the problem is with turning them to platinum. Yeah, it allows them to throw around a ton of money they don't have, but not only does that transformation only last an hour, the majority of people who they would need to use that trick on probably have the means of tracking them down and making them regret it. If they cheat an innkeeper or regular shop keep, they're jerks, but why are they in a situation where the PCs can't afford basic services?

True, but on the other hand you've never seen a party attempt to hire every prostitute in town while wearing the fur of several magical animals. PCs are very good at finding weird and extravagant ways to spend coin. Through this would be a hilarious campaign hook...

[Luccan]

True, but on the other hand you've never seen a party attempt to hire every prostitute in town while wearing the fur of several magical animals. PCs are very good at finding weird and extravagant ways to spend coin. Through this would be a hilarious campaign hook...

I'll admit, the Pimp Party is a new one. But hey, what happens when every prostitute in town suddenly realizes the party cheated them? I'm certain there's a random table for determining which prostitutes are actually ancient red dragons.

[Elkad]

What world are you living in? Paper and linen are not remotely made of the same thing. You are grasping at straws here. And then claiming that it's the same thing as corn.

Paper and Linen are both made from Flax. No, not all paper, but flax is one of the higher quality options. As is cotton, hemp, wood fiber, and various other things.

[Ashtagon]

Well Egypt made clothes and paper out of the same thing, so...

Also I think medieval Europe (which is what most D&D tries to emulate) used more cloth-y paper than the tree based paper we know.

Also this thread has cemented by decision to ban prestidigitation from any game I run. :smalltongue:

No, Egyptians did not make paper out of reeds. They made papyrus out of a specific kind of reed (from which they also made a number of other things).

Mediaeval Europe (and ancient Greece) tended to use parchment rather than paper. Which, as any fool knows, is made out of animal skins. Given the right writing materials, prestidigitation could turn the scribe's notes into a nice juicy steak... for an hour. Although paper reached Europe much earlier, parchment remained the main writing surface in Europe until the 15th century, and even today continues to see use for some highly formal documents (the official records of the British parliament are written on a high-quality parchment called vellum, which is also used for graduation certificates from certain universities).

Checking wikipedia, the original source for paper (first made in China around 2nd century BC; spread to Islamic world in 8th century; to Europe in 11th century) was old cloth rags, typically hemp, linen, or cotton. Effective means of recycling paper appeared in 1774, and an effective way to use wood pulp appeared in 1843.

The main difference between paper, parchment, and papyrus is in manufacture technique rather than material composition. You could conceivably make papyrus out of paper or parchment, although that's getting a bit meta.


Paper is any suitably fibrous material, pulped then dried into sheets.
Parchment is an animal skin, stretched, dried and scraped clean of fur (order may vary, check with your local parchment maker).
Papyrus is made from broad reeds placed at right angles and then made to stick together using various techniques (such as hammering, glues, -partial decomposition; again, consult your local papyrus manufacturer).

[animewatcha]

Can we count air as an 'object' or 'item' in regards to prestidigitation? As in clean the area 1 cube foot per round?

[danielxcutter]

Can we count air as an 'object' or 'item' in regards to prestidigitation? As in clean the area 1 cube foot per round?

You mean clearing the air? That doesn't sound too bad as long you don't try to abuse it by "cleaning" away Stinking Clouds and the like.

[Bullet06320]

That would be called parchment; it was made from animal hide.

Actually, no. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_paper) Still plant pulp at the end of the day, since I don't think there was an equivalent with animal fibers (wool or silk).

Vellum is animal based paper
https://infogalactic.com/info/Vellum

[danielxcutter]

Vellum is animal based paper
https://infogalactic.com/info/Vellum

And is not exactly on topic for the OP. Can we fix that?

[Bohandas]

I believe Darrin is referring to this (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707), fortunately also available online.

Notably, it allows one to make objects entirely immune to lava by dampening them and quickly refill caltrop and flour bags by gathering the material.

The firefinger usage seems to be non-srd. Was it eliminated in 3.5?