There is an artifact in VGM that can make you a Demigod

[Renduaz]

And it is currently the only actual official way in 5E to become a deity. During my time writing "The Adventurer's Guide to Abusing Monsters" ( http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?525624-The-Advenurer-s-Guide-to-Abusing-Monsters ), which details ways to use various creatures to accomplish all kind of great stuff like gaining unlimited wealth, time traveling, controlling entire species and so forth ( Shameless self shilling introduction ), I came across the entry for the Xvarts, and specifically, the information concerning "Raxivort's Betrayal" ( All of you who have VGM can open it now for reference ). In short, the creator of all Xvarts, an entity which looks exactly like all Xvarts named "Raxivort", now a demigod, has in his possession an item called the "Infinity Spindle" which can turn even the lowliest of creatures into a Demigod. After news of it has Spread, Raxivort fled to the Prime Material, and did something which causes all divination spells attempting to find him and take the item from him show instead the nearest Xvart, while spawning ever more Xvarts and remaining in hiding, only occasionally emerging before a Xvart tribe to plunder their treasuries.

So the Spindle of Infinity would in fact be the only officially published method for someone to transform into a deity in 5E so far. Now, if great minds think alike, there must be a few of you currently jumping into the conclusion of how a player could obtain this item? Now, you could try killing all Xvarts across the planes until you find Raxivort himself ( Which by the way, is actually a minor feat if you read the guide to abusing monsters, seriously. Final shilling ), or you could try casting Locate Object nearby Xvarts over miles and miles until you locate the Spindle itself, which also isn't ideal. But fear not, salvation comes to us in yet another segment of information in the VGM, "Xvart Warlocks". A Xvart will sometimes forge a pact with Raxivort by stealing an item of such great value that Raxivort himself will come to claim it, and become a Xvart Warlock.

So this means you could go incognito ( Invisibility, non-detection, followed by Etherealness even, the whole thing ) and plant any artifact of great value near a Xvart, or let it "steal" it from you while doing something to track it ( Hunter's Mark, Scrying, Drawmij's Instant Summons, etc.. ), waiting for Raxivort to show up to potentially claim it for himself and forge the pact. As soon as he does, you control or trap him ( I also discussed methods for that in the guide ) and take the Infinity Spindle from him. Now the problem is, Raxivort doesn't have stats so the DM could make up anything, however Tiamat and the Demon Lords are much more powerful, I mean, Raxivort even worked for Graz'zt so he's not supposed to be impossible to control or trap canonically. In case the Infinity Spindle isn't with him, you could of course either threaten him, do something like Detect Thoughts, or just Dominate Monster or Person or the like and make him tell you where he keeps everything. Alternatively, you could cast Drawmij's Instant Summons on your artifact of great value and track it back to Raxivort's own treasury or hideout. Lastly, of course, you could always simply just Gate Raxivort, but he's probably hiding his True Name, or you will never learn it, so it won't work.

So basically as far as I know this is the only officially valid way in 5E ( Until a book about attaining divinity is published ) right now to become a deity. Learn of Raxivort, lure him, and obtain the Infinity Spindle. What do you think? Would you let this fly in a campaign? Interesting thing.

[lunaticfringe]

Congratulations you're a Demi God, now reroll because the action of Gods fall under my control as DM.

[Renduaz]

Congratulations you're a Demi God, now reroll because the action of Gods fall under my control as DM.

Joke's on you, I'm just gonna find some Fey, Celestial or Fiend, cast Planar Binding on it, and make it my Demigod slave!

[JackPhoenix]

Note that being a demigod doesn't have any known benefits besides fancy title.

It may as well be a tunic patch with "I'm a demigod now!" written/stitched on it.

[Squiddish]

Note that being a demigod doesn't have any known benefits besides fancy title.

It may as well be a tunic patch with "I'm a demigod now!" written/stitched on it.

Hey, don't diss the tunic patch. That was exclusive for DemigodCon '08.

[Honest Tiefling]

Um...I could forsee one problem with this. The exact text of the Infinity Spindle is "One of the treasures [Ravimxort] stole was the Infinity Spindle, a crystalline shard from the early days of the
multiverse that could transform even a creature as low as Raxivort into a demigod." The problem is, there's no text that states that the Infinity Spindle could even be used again. Sure, powers are trying to get it, but the chances of them being duped by Graz'zt out of revenge is high. Demon and all.

Secondly...Raxivort doesn't HAVE to show up. The text sorta implies that he's watching his minions in order to know of them stealing something. So presumably he could discern if there's anyone in the area, even with those spells since he IS a demigod. Furthermore, he probably doesn't have the spindle on him, since demons can split themselves, so one would assume that both gods and demonic gods can as well. Also, the text says nothing of him NOT showing up with an army of Xvart Warlocks, but does heavily imply he is very cautious and paranoid...So why would he appear in a form and manner that he is vulnerable?

Not to mention, I wouldn't be surprised if actual gods didn't count as creatures, because the idea of spamming Dominate Person on one is silly and more then a little strange.

[Renduaz]

Um...I could forsee one problem with this. The exact text of the Infinity Spindle is "One of the treasures [Ravimxort] stole was the Infinity Spindle, a crystalline shard from the early days of the
multiverse that could transform even a creature as low as Raxivort into a demigod." The problem is, there's no text that states that the Infinity Spindle could even be used again. Sure, powers are trying to get it, but the chances of them being duped by Graz'zt out of revenge is high. Demon and all.

Secondly...Raxivort doesn't HAVE to show up. The text sorta implies that he's watching his minions in order to know of them stealing something. So presumably he could discern if there's anyone in the area, even with those spells since he IS a demigod. Furthermore, he probably doesn't have the spindle on him, since demons can split themselves, so one would assume that both gods and demonic gods can as well. Also, the text says nothing of him NOT showing up with an army of Xvart Warlocks, but does heavily imply he is very cautious and paranoid...So why would he appear in a form and manner that he is vulnerable?

Not to mention, I wouldn't be surprised if actual gods didn't count as creatures, because the idea of spamming Dominate Person on one is silly and more then a little strange.

Well, a particularly reluctant DM could claim this per RAW, but it would be extremely illogical in other aspects. First of all, the reason Raxivort can barely come out of hiding and lives such a wretched existence is because everyone is after his spindle, if it's useless, and Raxivort isn't one to be interested in useless things especially if they harm him so much, why wouldn't he just throw it somewhere to someone and spread the message that he no longer has it, so everyone would chase the new owner. Secondly, although you could claim it can have two meanings, Volo's says "The
demon prince had no need to regain the Infinity Spindle, since he already possessed power greater than what it could grant. "

As for not counting as creatures, Raxivort is merely a Demigod, and we know even Tiamat ( Lesesr/Intermediate probably ) is still a creature that can be targeted, and Graz'zt himself who is much more powerful than Raxivort and has lair actions in OOTA in his very own domain in the Abyss. Meaning he can be vanquished on his own Abyssal layer even. So, I did say Raxivort has no stats, so it would be tricky ( I mentioned that myself ), but Raxivort shouldn't theoretically be so powerful.

>Secondly...Raxivort doesn't HAVE to show up. The text sorta implies that he's watching his minions in order to know of them stealing something.

Well it didn't say he's watching them. It would say it shows up sometimes to claim an artifact of great value. But again, I did mention myself, that since Raxivort has got no stats, this would all be up to a DM. It's still the only official method though.

>Furthermore, he probably doesn't have the spindle on him, since demons can split themselves, so one would assume that both gods and demonic gods can as well.

I have written about what to do if he doesn't have it with him.

>so, the text says nothing of him NOT showing up with an army of Xvart Warlocks, but does heavily imply he is very cautious and paranoid...So why would he appear in a form and manner that he is vulnerable?

Well, it says he appears before the xvart to claim it. And even if he did appear with an army of Xvart Warlocks, at their level, or with anything else for that matter, there should be ample opportunities for a clever set-up to immediately trap, track or destroy Raxivort even in the midst of his army, although once again, depending on whether or no a DM gives him realistic stats.

[Honest Tiefling]

Well, a particularly reluctant DM could claim this per RAW, but it would be extremely illogical in other aspects. First of all, the reason Raxivort can barely come out of hiding and lives such a wretched existence is because everyone is after his spindle, if it's useless, and Raxivort isn't one to be interested in useless things especially if they harm him so much, why wouldn't he just throw it somewhere to someone and spread the message that he no longer has it, so everyone would chase the new owner.

Simple. Graz'zt, who is a known manipulator and deciever, even for a demon prince. He could probably start convincing people that Raxivort tastes like cotton candy if he particularly wanted to. Also, even if the Spindle was spent, there is a chance that Raxivort needs to or believes that he needs to keep a hold of it to continue being a demigod. I mean, it's not like Demons have ever made complicated schemes to trick people...Like trying to replace Waukeen with an imposter, or posing as someone else...

Also, I haven't played Rise of Tiamat, but I believed that the assumption was that wasn't all of her, and she was heavily weakened from being summoned and isn't a good standard for gods or demon princes. She also wasn't well prepared, but I could be wrong.

Basically, this entire plan rests on the idea that the DM thinks that a level 20 wizard should be able to defeat a demigod and will stat and gear him appropriately, so it'd only work if the DM is on board else they have too many ways to just stop it.

[Renduaz]

Simple. Graz'zt, who is a known manipulator and deciever, even for a demon prince. He could probably start convincing people that Raxivort tastes like cotton candy if he particularly wanted to. Also, even if the Spindle was spent, there is a chance that Raxivort needs to or believes that he needs to keep a hold of it to continue being a demigod. I mean, it's not like Demons have ever made complicated schemes to trick people...Like trying to replace Waukeen with an imposter, or posing as someone else...

Also, I haven't played Rise of Tiamat, but I believed that the assumption was that wasn't all of her, and she was heavily weakened from being summoned and isn't a good standard for gods or demon princes. She also wasn't well prepared, but I could be wrong.

Basically, this entire plan rests on the idea that the DM thinks that a level 20 wizard should be able to defeat a demigod and will stat and gear him appropriately, so it'd only work if the DM is on board else they have too many ways to just stop it.

>Simple. Graz'zt, who is a known manipulator and deciever, even for a demon prince.

Volo's does say ""The demon prince had no need to regain the Infinity Spindle, since he already possessed power greater than what it could grant.", which seems to indicate the spindle still grants that power moreso than it's powerless.

> but I believed that the assumption was that wasn't all of her, and she was heavily weakened from being summoned and isn't a good standard for gods or demon princes. She also wasn't well prepared, but I could be wrong.

No, it was all of her, she got summoned from the Nine Hells to walk on the Prime Material, and she only gets weakened if the players weaken her. Otherwise her normal statistics represent her actual abilities. Secondly, I've already said, OOTA has statistics for fighting the Demon Lords in the Abyss itself, and we know Graz'zt is more powerful than Raxivort.

>Basically, this entire plan rests on the idea that the DM thinks that a level 20 wizard should be able to defeat a demigod and will stat and gear him appropriately, so it'd only work if the DM is on board else they have too many ways to just stop it.

If players can defeat the Demon Lords, Dawn Titans and Tiamat, then yes, they should be able to. And yes, a DM could stat Raxivort any way he wanted or announce that the Spindle is destroyed by itself or by Graz'zt inlaid enchantment or something as soon as anyone other than Raxivort attempts to use it. It's notability is being the only official way to attain divinity ( Via an artifact ) if a DM enables it by giving Raxivort appropriate stat and deciding where the spindle is.

[Coffee_Dragon]

the only officially published method for someone to transform into a deity in 5E so far

So...

1. Locate and obtain reputed artefact mentioned in flavour text (massive DM fiat)

2. Employ artefact for reputed effect using unspecified procedures and observing unspecified requirements (mind-boggling helpings of DM fiat)

3. Arglebargle, glop-glyf!?! (arglebargle)

4. Be a demigod (wafer-thin mint of DM fiat)

At least it's official though.

[Renduaz]

So...

1. Locate and obtain reputed artefact mentioned in flavour text (massive DM fiat)

2. Employ artefact for reputed effect using unspecified procedures and observing unspecified requirements (mind-boggling helpings of DM fiat)

3. Arglebargle, glop-glyf!?! (arglebargle)

4. Be a demigod (wafer-thin mint of DM fiat)

At least it's official though.

Yes, that's what this thread is about. That there is an interesting artifact in VGM which currently is the only thing officially given as having the ability to turn a creature into a deity, and with DM fiat, you could try to lure Raxivort according to the information given, hope it succeeds, try to take it from him, and attempt to use it. Thank you for chiming in.

[Unoriginal]

Sorry to say, but having you present something that'd be worth a whole campaign to get, or at least an extended high-level adventure, as if it was something Billy the Wizz could steal in one afternoon makes me cringe.

[Honest Tiefling]

I think this method is no more valid then saying 'Graz'zt became a demon prince, so can I!" I mean, both are mentioned in fluff, so why not?

[Renduaz]

Sorry to say, but having you present something that'd be worth a whole campaign to get, or at least an extended high-level adventure, as if it was something Billy the Wizz could steal in one afternoon makes me cringe.

I don't know where you've seen that presentation. I don't recall any times being given, only the VGM information, and the obvious elaboration on how, and I hope this being read very carefully. Very carefully. Each word. Is that happening? Good. The elaboration on how someone could potentially try to lure Raxivort, which of course would have DM-given statistics if he does show up, and attempt to get the Spindle from him somehow, while use of the Spindle itself would also be a gamble, but possibly worth given VGM information.

That's all I'm seeing, personally.


I think this method is no more valid then saying 'Graz'zt became a demon prince, so can I!" I mean, both are mentioned in fluff, so why not?

Because it doesn't say how Graz'zt became a Demon Prince. Fluff which says "This specific artifact has the power to make the lowliest creature a demigod, and this specific creature is said to have it, and this specific creature sometimes shows up when X happens" is a bit more solid to go on, relative to any other idea on becoming a deity semi-officially and potentially.

[Coffee_Dragon]

Yes, that's what this thread is about. That there is an interesting artifact in VGM which currently is the only thing officially given as having the ability to turn a creature into a deity, and with DM fiat, you could try to lure Raxivort according to the information given, hope it succeeds, try to take it from him, and attempt to use it. Thank you for chiming in.

Actually, a way to become a god of unspecified stature already exists in Realmslore (which should be setting-specific canon unless they explicitly erased it): the Valley of the Gods, where the conceit was that since only gods could exist there, if you went there you'd become a god. Of course, the legend also implies the whole thing may not work as advertised, but that just means we need more dakka DM fiat, right?

[Honest Tiefling]

Because it doesn't say how Graz'zt became a Demon Prince. Fluff which says "This specific artifact has the power to make the lowliest creature a demigod" is a bit more solid, relative to any other idea on becoming a deity semi-officially and potentially.

I think outright sleeping with the DM is less convoluted then this plan. The problem is with the artifact is why you KNOW it works, you don't know how or what the conditions are, which might include sleeping with Graz'zt because he seems like that kind of guy. It's a gamble, but hardly a guaranteed one with a lot of chances for it to mess up, such as never getting access to the lore of the spindle, Raximvort, or his warlocks. It's semi-official, just unlikely to work with a lot of road blocks.

Also, I think it is pretty evident that not a lot of DMs would allow it, and those who would probably make it a campaign.

[Renduaz]

Actually, a way to become a god of unspecified stature already exists in Realmslore (which should be setting-specific canon unless they explicitly erased it): the Valley of the Gods, where the conceit was that since only gods could exist there, if you went there you'd become a god. Of course, the legend also implies the whole thing may not work as advertised, but that just means we need more dakka DM fiat, right?

Okay, great. And Realmslore isn't featured in any publish module so far, while the Forgotten Realms is, and I actually haven't heard of it that much so I have no idea if it's deleted. I didn't see it mentioned in the DMG though in the Prime Materials section even in reference.

Secondly, is there anything constructive at all you're trying to accomplish with these comments? Is there anything you actually want me to change in wording, is your goal for me to delete this thread and apologize for posting it, are you trying to say that this artifact is just not interesting to even discuss possible acquirement of whatsoever, or.... what? What are you trying to tell me? Surely your goal isn't just to insult me and leave, right? I'm sure you're above that.


I think outright sleeping with the DM is less convoluted then this plan. The problem is with the artifact is why you KNOW it works, you don't know how or what the conditions are, which might include sleeping with Graz'zt because he seems like that kind of guy. It's a gamble, but hardly a guaranteed one with a lot of chances for it to mess up, such as never getting access to the lore of the spindle, Raximvort, or his warlocks. It's semi-official, just unlikely to work with a lot of road blocks.

Also, I think it is pretty evident that not a lot of DMs would allow it, and those who would probably make it a campaign.


Sleeping with the DM isn't official to make someone a deity though. You're completely right, the Spindle's conditions are unknown. Might be interesting with a rational DM to attempt to study it or something. It is a gamble, indeed. You'd need to take an interest in Xvart Lore, yes, but since apparently this artifact has gained some fame among the powerful according to VGM, a DM might think that the information is out there. I think that it's an interesting entry in the VGM.

Where's my crucifix for typing that?

[Unoriginal]

I don't know where you've seen that presentation. I don't recall any times being given, only the VGM information, and the obvious elaboration on how, and I hope this being read very carefully. Very carefully. Each word. Is that happening? Good. The elaboration on how someone could potentially try to lure Raxivort, which of course would have DM-given statistics if he does show up, and attempt to get the Spindle from him somehow, while use of the Spindle itself would also be a gamble, but possibly worth given VGM information.

That's all I'm seeing, personally.

Dude, you're speaking of a being who managed to secure his artifact against thieves from all across the Planes, including from beings such as Liches who'd sell their souls to become a demigod and who are already powerful wizards. No matter what else the Volo says about Raxivort, it's pretty clear that he's incredibly good at escaping his foes.

It's not going to be an easy "teehee, here's a few spells to use, do that and you get the Spindle."

Also, what are you going to do once you have the Spindle? Flee for the rest of your life because everyone wants it like Raxivort before you?

[Renduaz]

Dude, you're speaking of a being who managed to secure his artifact against thieves from all across the Planes, including from beings such as Liches who'd sell their souls to become a demigod and who are already powerful wizards. No matter what else the Volo says about Raxivort, it's pretty clear that he's incredibly good at escaping his foes.

It's not going to be an easy "teehee, here's a few spells to use, do that and you get the Spindle."

Also, what are you going to do once you have the Spindle? Flee for the rest of your life because everyone wants it like Raxivort before you?

Well, in pretty much most of the official adventure models, we have players "Going where nobody has gone before" and apparently doing things at higher levels which seemingly nobody else can, that's the premise of a lot of "Epic" campaigns. According to DMG, a level 20 is pretty much a legendary hero on a planet scale, apparently good enough to kill all of the Demon Lords in their own Abyssal Lairs according to OOTA ( Which gave statistics for heir lair actions and other stuff for players who do that ), so - yes, maybe they could be the ones to get their hands on the Spindle, just like they're the ones to defeat X or explore Z successfully or accomplish Y and so forth in other scenarios. Definitely not going to be easy.

As for what to do with the Spindle, I'd imagine Raxivort holds on to it because of the Xvart ( Imitations of Raxivort ) nature of unbelievable greed and hoarding. I'd probably just throw it into elemental chaos, It wouldn't really be my business if someone else picked it up from there somehow.

[Matrix_Walker]

Assuming a GM has introduced the spindle, and you are a demigod, you would have a new creature type, and no longer be affected by spells that only target humanoids.

So there's that...

[Unoriginal]

Well, in pretty much most of the official adventure models, we have players "Going where nobody has gone before" and apparently doing things at higher levels which seemingly nobody else can, that's the premise of a lot of "Epic" campaigns. According to DMG, a level 20 is pretty much a legendary hero on a planet scale, apparently good enough to kill all of the Demon Lords in their own Abyssal Lairs according to OOTA ( Which gave statistics for heir lair actions and other stuff for players who do that ), so - yes, maybe they could be the ones to get their hands on the Spindle, just like they're the ones to defeat X or explore Z successfully or accomplish Y and so forth in other scenarios. Definitely not going to be easy.


And so, like I said, it's something that would take a whole campaign, or at least a long high-level adventure.

Not something you can get by ambushing a xvart and then spamming spells a few times.

[Renduaz]

And so, like I said, it's something that would take a whole campaign, or at least a long high-level adventure.

Not something you can get by ambushing a xvart and then spamming spells a few times.

Obviously not, since you'd also need to acquire some other artifact of great value ( Eye and Hands of Vecna, Book of Exalted Deeds, etc.. ) to draw Raxivort's attention by depositing it with a Xvart covertly, so it's going to take some levels and time. Not sure what gave you a different impression.

[Beelzebubba]

Dude, you're being waaaaaaaay too literal here.

Every single thing in every book is not a 100% logically derived proof so therefore *strings them together feverishly at 3am while a montage of mathematical symbols floats around your brain* you realized you have BEAT the GAME
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/49076/2592492-i_did_it.jpg

That's because D&D is not a perfectly interlocking chain of logic with consistent fidelity throughout, it's a game with *some* logical rules embedded in fuzzy storytelling ultimately meant to spur imagination. You're treating them as both the same. They're not. This crystal is a neat idea meant to spur wonder and give you ideas on how crazy and fantastic the world can be, it's not written with the same intent or purpose or level of detail as the rules for weapons combat.

"Oh the entry on Drow says they were 'banished from the surface world'. Well, Banishment pushes someone to another dimension and requires concentration, so all the Drow are in another dimension and the only way to free them is to find that God and do enough damage so they fail that check!" That's what I think of when I see your arguments regarding this silly shard.