Guns that aren't guns

[CIDE]

Alright! So, I've encountered a new challenge for a game I'm participating in. We're on the edge of epic and I'm playing an Artificer/renegade mastermaker. Feats really won't matter since I have ways around most of those. While it's a 3.5/d20 game mechanically the setting is 4e's Toril. One thing that has really come up, though, is that guns are completely and utterly banned. No smoke/gun powder, no gnome weapons, no DMG guns or D20 modern/past, none of that. Nothing that is mechanically a gun is allowed in the setting.

So, with all of that in mind the DM did say that gun-like projectile or magic weapons are still available. It just needs to be its own custom and unqique item and that my character has to be the one to make it. Any outside help is iffy given the strict taboo in this specific version of Toril (changed a little by the DM). The Ethergaunt glaives also aren't on the table currently since that would require a lot of extra work to steal that tech and understand it.

I would like to also add that I'm not looking for power here. It's a large almost sand-box style world with multiple characters and groups . There enough characters that power levels vary greatly in power and most players are on the lower end of understanding. This is more of a thematic addition to the game or a thought exercise just to see what other people have come up with.

What ideas do you guys have while sticking to the rules as closey as possible? An alchemical item that launches tiny spherical flasks? A wondrous item that launches bolts of force? Crossbows minus the limbs?

[Kaleph]

Simce you are an artificer, what about a re-fluffed rod of many wands with the right spell on it?

[Grod_The_Giant]

A Wand of Lesser Orb of Sound, or of full-on Orb of Force? A wondrous item that casts Launch Bolt at-will?

[Freezy]

crossbow with wand slot? ;-)
it's just 100GP to get a whole lot of awesome

you can either shoot a bolt or activate the wand, which could be a swift action spell (there are some good ones).
Or fire a spell, like fireball or any of the rays. A 'battery'/cartridge would contain 50 'bullets'

and you can add items that grant additional actions to fire it multiple times.


What I don't get it why the DM would ban with a 'anything like it' description.
You should at least be able to build an alchemical refluffed version of whatever you want to make.

Wheter it is psionic, alchemical, divine, mechanical, per spell level you can deal 1d6 points of damage.
You can copy the mechanics of any of the weapons, but change the description completely (crossbow with the strings internally, or steam powered pressure, sure why not)
As long as you pay the same amount in gold for all the related resources, as long as it fits it should just be allowed.


If you want to get creative, try to mimic spells (use mechanics of wand) with your personal creations.
Powerwise they are identical (though you need to account for anti-magic if applicable).
Alchemy that mixes in magical power would just be magic, just alchemical instead of arcane/divine/psionic.

It only becomes a problem if you add stuff like a crystal spray attack to a device you carry around (basically a wide arc shotgun)
You would need to work with your DM on what is fair in your campaign. You could say that any such effect is up to one-half lower damage (so 3d6 instead of 6d6), just like you would with any spell that does not allow a save.
Alternatively, because the ammo is not magical it is affected by damage reduction, which should pose either a financial problem (adamantine ammo) or a damage output one.

Compare to stuff, figure out the power levels ;-)
Then you can refluff it as creatively as you want/are allowed within the setting.

[ijon]

would a rocket launcher fly under the radar? cannons do exist, after all, and if it's still too close, the rockets could be launched, fly, and detonate (fireball) through magic.

plus, blowing stuff up is fun. PROVE ME WRONG

[Inevitability]

Cast (Empowered, Maximized) Gembomb on pieces of git or amber, then place them in a container filled with quintessence/unguent of timelessness.

Next, create an item of use-activated Launch Object, and give it a magically enlarged 'chamber' where you place the gembombs in. You can now fire them as you please.

[Starbuck_II]

If non-normal guns nor allowed, how about a grenade launcher?
Light APG Launcher
Price 1,000 gp; Type two-handed firearm
Dmg (M) 1d8 B, 1d8 P, 1d6 fire; Dmg (S) 1d6 B, 1d6 P, 1d6 fire; Critical ×2; Range 40 ft.; Capacity 2
Special see text; Weight 20 lbs. Misfire 2
This alchemical pellet grenade launcher is light enough to mount on one's shoulder. The metal tube possesses a hatch to load a specially prepared pellet grenade designed to propel like a missile when ignited. The light APG launcher can fire at a target or an unoccupied square like a splash weapon. The weapon deals 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage, 1d8 points of piercing damage, and 1d6 points of fire damage in a 10-foot radius burst (Reflex DC 15 halves). A creature that takes a direct hit receives no saving throw. If the weapon misses, treat as a thrown splash weapon.
A light APG launcher uses a single iron, silver, cold iron, or adamantine pellet grenade worth 60 gp, 80 gp, 110 gp, or 160 gp respectively. These bypass damage reduction as a pellet grenade of the appropriate type and are considered alchemical cartridges.


Alchemy Pistol
Price 800 gp; Type one-handed firearm
Dmg (M) 1d8 B and P; Dmg (S) 1d6 B and P; Critical ×4; Range 20 ft.; Capacity 2
Special see text; Weight 4 lbs. Misfire 1
This modified pistol possesses a special chamber capable of loading 1 or more vials of acid, alchemist fire, bottled lightning, or liquid ice. As part of an attack, an alchemy pistol can consume the item to perform a single attack at the wielder’s full base attack bonus. This attack deals energy damage (instead of bludgeoning and piercing damage) appropriate to the alchemy item’s type as a touch attack. These alchemy items are considered alchemical cartridges for the purpose of reloading.

Alchemy Musket
Price 1,400 gp; Type two-handed firearm
Dmg (M) 1d12 B and P; Dmg (S) 1d10 B and P; Critical ×4; Range 40 ft.; Capacity 3
Special see text; Weight 9 lbs. Misfire 1
This modified musket possesses a special chamber capable of loading 1 or more vials of acid, alche-mist fire, bottled lightning, or liquid ice. As part of an attack, an alchemy musket can consume the item to perform a single attack at the wielder’s full base attack bonus. This attack deals energy damage (in-stead of bludgeoning and piercing damage) appropriate to the alchemy item’s type as a touch attack. These alchemy items are considered alchemical cartridges for the purpose of reloading.


If want a little weirder:
Dwarven Volley Gun:
Price 1,700 gp; Type two-handed firearm
Dmg (M) 1d4 B and P each; Dmg (S) 1d3 B and P each; Critical ×3; Range 60 ft (Cone).; Capacity 7 (1 each)
Special ; Weight 7 lbs. Misfire 1
This musket improvement created by dwarves. It has seven barrels that only fire simultaneously attacking with separate attack rolls to all targets in cone; if fewer than seven divide as choose. Attacks other than primary attack take -2 penalty. Each barrel must be reloaded separately.


New item for gun-like wand: Wand rifle.

Wand Rifle: 250 gp and weighs 3 pounds.
This wooden-barreled device can be loaded more than one separate wands, enabling its wielder to cycle between them as a free action as desired. The rifle’s slender barrel provides a +1 circumstance bonus on ranged touch attacks with discharged spells. Wand rifles are frequently outfitted with bayonets, which share the statistics of short swords (they can even be made masterwork). One can make a wand rifle with more than two slots for wands; additional slots when created cost 50 gp up to 6 slots for 450 gp instead of standard 250 gp for 2 slots. While the wand rifle itself is not truly a weapon and it can be enhanced as one as if masterwork. Only enhancement bonuses can be added, no special abilities which are added to the spells if possible.

I even made a class-
Wand Slinger: Basically like gunslinger in PF but wands using Wand rifle.
Here is a snippet:

Eventually people with minor magical abilities developed the Wand Rifle allowing everyday people to be used as soldiers with little training. With time, the recruits' extreme focus on one kind of item led the more talented of them to develop skills unknown to traditional spellcasters, paralleling those of gunslingers on other worlds. Nowadays, the Art of the Wand is established enough that even people with no experience in the war can train themselves towards it.

Wandsmith: At 1st level, a wandslinger gains one battered Wand rifle and two battered wands, each containing a 0th-level spell with 50 charges. The wand rifle and these wands function only for the wandslinger, and each have negligible sale value (2d10 gp each).
Knowing the tools of his trade, the wandslinger gains the extraordinary ability to identify wands merely by handling and examining them. The character spends one minute studying the wand and makes a DC 15 + the level of the stored spell Spellcraft check to determine the spell stored in the wand. No retry is allowed on this check. This replaces the gunslinger's Gunsmith ability.
Wand Training (Su): At 1st level as long as he maintains 1 Grit, when a wandslinger uses a spell trigger item to cast a 0th-level spell he succeeds on his Use Magic Device check automatically. If the spell requires a ranged attack roll he gains a bonus on the damage roll equal to his Dex modifier (if the spell does not deal damage he may choose to deal damage equal to his Dex modifier in addition to the normal effects). At every 4th level thereafter this ability applies to spells of one level higher. This replaces the gunslinger's Gun Training abilit., or the Mysterious Stranger archetype's Stranger's Fortune ability.
Grit: A wandslinger gains grit from spells (including spells cast from items) rather than firearms. Note that only spells which require an attack roll are capable of inflicting critical hits


And a feat:

Daring Wandslinger (Combat)
You can discharge two wands in a round or one wand twice in round.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Spellcraft 5 ranks
Benefit: You may activate more than one wand with a single standard action provided you hold each in a different hand or using a Wand rifle.
Each wand uses 1d4 charges instead of 1 charge when used.
Special: If one of the wand casts a spell with casting time longer than than 1 action, you activate all wand in the same time needed for the longest casting of wand.

[Ellrin]

Step 1: Make a necklace of fireballs.
Step 2: Detach beads.
Step 3: Load beads in your favored ammunition-delivering device.
Step 4: Fire beads.
Step 5: ?????
Step 6: Run screaming through the night attempting to extinguish yourself.

[mabriss lethe]

3.5's mechanical trap rules have some interesting ways to handle things. There's a line on the table that allows a trap to mimic a spell effect nonmagically. It just requires alchemical reagents. You could create a weapon based on those rules if you like. (Typing this on the phone, so hunting down the relevant section isn't something that I can do easily at the moment.) It's in the trap section of the SRD.

[atemu1234]

Step 1: Make a necklace of fireballs.
Step 2: Detach beads.
Step 3: Load beads in your favored ammunition-delivering device.
Step 4: Fire beads.
Step 5: ?????
Step 6: Run screaming through the night attempting to extinguish yourself.

Step 0: Have GP set aside for a resurrection, and a trustworthy Cleric for a friend.

[Gildedragon]

A self loading xbow with spell-storing ammo

[The Viscount]

Hank's Energy Bow could be something to base off of.

Alternatively, the Grell weapon as presented in Lords of Madness.

[CIDE]

Simce you are an artificer, what about a re-fluffed rod of many wands with the right spell on it?

A Wand of Lesser Orb of Sound, or of full-on Orb of Force? A wondrous item that casts Launch Bolt at-will?

would a rocket launcher fly under the radar? cannons do exist, after all, and if it's still too close, the rockets could be launched, fly, and detonate (fireball) through magic.

plus, blowing stuff up is fun. PROVE ME WRONG

These are the things I was kind of trying to avoid. The simple and obvious anwers that virtually anyone can do. Also, not thematically what I'm trying to go for. The idea of the gun shaped weapon, reloading,etc. The fluff aspect of the character using an experimental weapon that could very well blow up in his face. Specifically, the character DOES know guns were a thing but they've since also been banned in-universe and so can't actually be made. He's trying to replicate the weapon without the use of the banned black powder/smoke powder/whatever.


Cast (Empowered, Maximized) Gembomb on pieces of git or amber, then place them in a container filled with quintessence/unguent of timelessness.

Next, create an item of use-activated Launch Object, and give it a magically enlarged 'chamber' where you place the gembombs in. You can now fire them as you please.


This is almost perfect. I'd prefer a non-magical version but for a more powerful magical variation this is just plain awesome. Definitely going to keep this one in mind.


snip

These are basically the kinds of things that are outright banned. At least unless I can find an existing alchemical item that can accomplish the same thing as black powder withoutactually being black powder. Not a homebrew substances either.




Step 1: Make a necklace of fireballs.
Step 2: Detach beads.
Step 3: Load beads in your favored ammunition-delivering device.
Step 4: Fire beads.
Step 5: ?????
Step 6: Run screaming through the night attempting to extinguish yourself.

Good news! Thanks to the one spell from Sandstorm I have the fire subtype! I also have the opposing subtype from the frostburn spell (DM allowed them to work together).


3.5's mechanical trap rules have some interesting ways to handle things. There's a line on the table that allows a trap to mimic a spell effect nonmagically. It just requires alchemical reagents. You could create a weapon based on those rules if you like. (Typing this on the phone, so hunting down the relevant section isn't something that I can do easily at the moment.) It's in the trap section of the SRD.

Going to need to take a look at these. I must've missed it reading through the trap rules.


Hank's Energy Bow could be something to base off of.

Alternatively, the Grell weapon as presented in Lords of Madness.

I asked about the Energy Bow already. The weapon is allowed on the game and that "enchantment" can even be built into other bows or types of bows but ONLY bows. I already asked if it could be on a hand crossbow and I was shot down. I'll take a look at the Grell weapon.




Overall some awesome stuff, guys. Thanks for the responses. More than I thought I'd get in such a short amount of time.

[ShurikVch]

How about the Speargun (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Ranged_Weapons#Speargun), or this homebrewed Harpoon Gun (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Harpoon_Gun_(3.5e_Equipment))?

Return to the Temple of the Frog (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20070223a) have alien blasters; blaster does 6d6 fire damage (or 8d6 - for Heavy Blaster), may do up to 24 shots (or up to 12 - for Heavy Blaster), and need recharging port for "reloading"

"Greyhawk 2000" article (Dragon #277) have "dimensional weapons" (DiM Weapons), which are work a bit like a Mass Effect weapons (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons), just instead of mass accelerators they using pair of portals - leading to and from the high-gravity environment.
The same article also have "elven silvershot", which works like a refluffed wand of magic missiles, except it required ranged touch attack, does 1d12 piercing damage (X2 crit.), and have range increment 400

[CIDE]

How about the Speargun (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Ranged_Weapons#Speargun), or this homebrewed Harpoon Gun (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Harpoon_Gun_(3.5e_Equipment))?

Return to the Temple of the Frog (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20070223a) have alien blasters; blaster does 6d6 fire damage (or 8d6 - for Heavy Blaster), may do up to 24 shots (or up to 12 - for Heavy Blaster), and need recharging port for "reloading"

"Greyhawk 2000" article (Dragon #277) have "dimensional weapons" (DiM Weapons), which are work a bit like a Mass Effect weapons (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons), just instead of mass accelerators they using pair of portals - leading to and from the high-gravity environment.
The same article also have "elven silvershot", which works like a refluffed wand of magic missiles, except it required ranged touch attack, does 1d12 piercing damage (X2 crit.), and have range increment 400


The spear gun and harpoon just sound like a cross bow. Not sure about that but open to consideration there.

The blaster and other alien/energy weapons I brought up to the dm before and they were all shot down

The other two sounds promising. I'll just need to find the article to read for details.

[Buufreak]

It is 3rd party and pathfinder, but Pure Steam has pneumatic (steam) powered weapons and contraptions. Could you figure out how to make something like that?

[The Viscount]

To clarify on the weapon used by the Grell mentioned earlier, the lightning lance and greater version on page 115 of lords of madness, the greater shoot lightning dealing 5d6 electricity with an arc to secondary target, with 7 charges that renew daily. You could carry a few of these, or the lesser version since they're cheaper.

[CIDE]

To clarify on the weapon used by the Grell mentioned earlier, the lightning lance and greater version on page 115 of lords of madness, the greater shoot lightning dealing 5d6 electricity with an arc to secondary target, with 7 charges that renew daily. You could carry a few of these, or the lesser version since they're cheaper.


I found them, thanks. They kind of fit and kind of don't. I'll probably include them in the arsenal anyway but they wouldn't be the focus.

[druid zook]

What about borrowing from Greyhawk 2000? That had a rifle that magically accelerated a projectile, then dimensionally transferred it out to fall towards the sun, which accelerated it through falling, then dimensionally transferred it back out the end of the barrel. It went really fast and was very hot.

The article features magical technology. DRAGON magazine #277. See also DUNGEON #83, pg.91.

[CIDE]

It is 3rd party and pathfinder, but Pure Steam has pneumatic (steam) powered weapons and contraptions. Could you figure out how to make something like that?

I might be able to get away with that. Plenty of ways to do the steam thing. I like that approach.


What about borrowing from Greyhawk 2000? That had a rifle that magically accelerated a projectile, then dimensionally transferred it out to fall towards the sun, which accelerated it through falling, then dimensionally transferred it back out the end of the barrel. It went really fast and was very hot.

The article features magical technology. DRAGON magazine #277. See also DUNGEON #83, pg.91.

Someone already best you to it above.

I asked and they were approved. Same with the launch bolt gun which I'll turn into a general purpose thrower. Voidstones, gembombs, flask, dust of coughing and sneezing, poison, etc

[Braininthejar2]

http://rustyandco.com/comic/level-5-5/