Feat help, is this possible? Too much?

[Azazel_Unbound]

So, one of my players was asking about spending a feat for an extra attack. While I have no personal issue, I can also see there coukd be issue with this with mele combatants already. One is sacrificing a valuable ABI increase for an extra attack, which can be nice for a caster, but giving that to classes that already have four attacks, or smites can be ridiculous. I don't know. While I can see pro's and con's, I'm not always great at designing balance, especially since I'm new to DMing.

What do the playgrounders think?

[Honest Tiefling]

Extra attack is a powerful ability, and one that defines warrior classes. Remember that multiclass characters would have to burn 5 levels to get it. So my instinct is no, pretty much.

What is your player's argument to burn a feat for it? Perhaps if you made it usable a certain number of times per short rest? Also, has this player been lagging in the combat department?

[Azazel_Unbound]

It seems to be more of a matter of character concept with them clashing with their desire not to lose out on spell slot progression. They're a full caster, so as a full caster he can only attack once (twice with a bonus action) per turn with a mele weapon. I will admit, I love when my players have cool ideas, especially the way he described his desire to use stone shape to fabricate rough weapons to use in the midst of combat when he is running low on slots, but laments the fact that to be effective witht hat, he'd have to take 5+ level dips for extra attack

[Honest Tiefling]

Acquire the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. Within is a different type Arcane Tradition, called the Bladesinger, which is technically limited to elves, but since you are the DM, lift that restriction. I've heard it's quite balanced, and does have Extra Attack.

There are even a few cantrips that have the character make a melee attack that seem good for this concept. They are excellent choices for a gish, and it means they can stop taking the REAL wizard's spells. Shoo! Get your own! Stop using my fire bolt! Staaaaaahp!

[Azazel_Unbound]

Acquire the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. Within is a different type Arcane Tradition, called the Bladesinger, which is technically limited to elves, but since you are the DM, lift that restriction. I've heard it's quite balanced, and does have Extra Attack.

There are even a few cantrips that have the character make a melee attack that seem good for this concept. They are excellent choices for a gish, and it means they can stop taking the REAL wizard's spells. Shoo! Get your own! Stop using my fire bolt! Staaaaaahp!

The only problem with this is they are really into the idea of a druid. Perhaps I could switch one of the class abilities out?

Edit: Perhaps maybe I should make a new circle?

[lunaticfringe]

I'd honestly just give them access to the blade Cantrips or a Magic Staff with extra damage. No reason to reinvent the wheel IMHO.

[lunaticfringe]

Better Idea: Starter Spells UA, Primal Savagery Cantrip.

[Honest Tiefling]

The only problem with this is they are really into the idea of a druid. Perhaps I could switch one of the class abilities out?

Edit: Perhaps maybe I should make a new circle?

Hrm. The problem is, a Moon Druid (which is what I assume he is) is NOT a frontline combatant the same way a fighter is. Which is fine, they can rely on their spells, just not for this character.

Homebrewing is a delicate art, so I don't suggest it for a newbie. I am going to second the UA cantrip (found here (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-Starter-Spells.pdf)) because it gives him a nice beefy attack without inching in on the territory of other classes.

Is there a particular reason he didn't make a ranger?

[busterswd]

It seems to be more of a matter of character concept with them clashing with their desire not to lose out on spell slot progression. They're a full caster, so as a full caster he can only attack once (twice with a bonus action) per turn with a mele weapon. I will admit, I love when my players have cool ideas, especially the way he described his desire to use stone shape to fabricate rough weapons to use in the midst of combat when he is running low on slots, but laments the fact that to be effective witht hat, he'd have to take 5+ level dips for extra attack

Why not just let him reflavor his attack cantrips, which scale automatically with level? So Produce Flame with the power of Stone Shape becomes a melee range spell, and scales at 5 and 11. I'd even let him use the 1d8 damage dice on separate targets, if he so desired; it shouldn't drastically break the game.

[Azazel_Unbound]

Taking current suggestions into account, I'll talk them over with the player and see what they think. Thanks, playgrounders.



On the subject of Homebrew: I've always considered trying it. I usually run the stuff I feel needs balancing by a friend of mine who likes that sort of thing, so that helps.

[Foxhound438]

I'd honestly just give them access to the blade Cantrips or a Magic Staff with extra damage. No reason to reinvent the wheel IMHO.

this is definitely a fair approach


I am going to second the UA cantrip (found here (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-Starter-Spells.pdf))

this is also a fair approach

If you wanted to go the extra mile, it's not totally out of character for full casters to have an archetype that gives extra attack... I see no reason why it wouldn't be fine to homebrew a druid circle that maybe focuses on "partial transformation" that's always on and thus would give things like extra attack, unarmored defense, etc. Probably monk's unarmored defense at 2, extra attack at 6, maybe bonus action dash at 10, and then a damage boost (+ wis to weapon damage) at 14.

[Honest Tiefling]

On the subject of Homebrew: I've always considered trying it. I usually run the stuff I feel needs balancing by a friend of mine who likes that sort of thing, so that helps.

Oh, well, nevermind then. I would use the cantrip for now, and then try to homebrew something. Introducing it soon is necessary, but taking some time to tweak it is probably for the best.

Were other players allowed homebrew? I would suggest asking their opinions and if there is anything they wish to change just to be fair.

[Azazel_Unbound]

I usually have them run anything that is UA or Homebrew by me to see if it isn't too OP. I generally don't take much from DnDwiki often because of how OP some of the classes made there are.

[Honest Tiefling]

I usually have them run anything that is UA or Homebrew by me to see if it isn't too OP. I generally don't take much from DnDwiki often because of how OP some of the classes made there are.

You are a wise man. So nevermind, everyone else got some UA lovin'.