Strength-Based Shield Master Rogue

[Arcran]

So, I'm thinking of playing a bit of a "Dirty Knight" kind of character, along the lines from Game of Thrones, and I think some sort of Fighter/Rogue hybrid will fit that the best. It looks to me that Shield Master would make the build fairly killer, but was wondering if anybody had advice for the build beyond that.

Right now, I'm mostly wondering the following:

Do I start Fighter or Rogue?
What split of Fighter and Rogue is optimal?
Should I be gunning for Full Plate, or just coasting of lighter armors?

[lunaticfringe]

You don't really need to go Strength​ based unless you want some Barb. Expertise Athletics....

Just makes you more MAD really.

[ChampionWiggles]

If you plan to go lvl 7+ into Rogue, then Shield Master seems a bit redundant since you'll be getting Evasion, unless you REALLY want to be making those spell DEX saves. Rogue and Fighters meld well together though. You'll want to take Dueling fighting style if you stick with sword and board. If you go Battle Master, take Riposte maneuver for sure. If the conditions are met for Sneak Attack to trigger, you'll get Sneak Attack damage from the Riposte should it hit. Sneak Attack says it can trigger once per turn, not per round. If you happen to go Champion, you'll get higher chance for crits, which can get stupid high damage if you have lots of Sneak Attack dice.

[Willie the Duck]

Do I start Fighter or Rogue?
What split of Fighter and Rogue is optimal?
Should I be gunning for Full Plate, or just coasting of lighter armors?


I expect this is to get the high strength + expertise athletics shield shove and then sneak attack combo? I would start rogue for the extra skill point, and then rely on medium armor and a 14+ dex, since there are some really nice things that that dex does, and you need at least a 13 anyways.

lunaticfringe is right that you really don't need much str. By the time you really need the advantage to attacks, your double proficiency on athletics will be dwarfing your strength's contribution to the roll anyways.

There is no universal perfect level admixture for a fighter rogue. Each level of fighter is a level delay for sneak attack, and each level of rogue is a level delay for extra attacks.

[GlenSmash!]

I think the build works better with Barbarian rage giving advantage to Strength checks.

[Honest Tiefling]

I think the build works better with Barbarian rage giving advantage to Strength checks.

This is why I think Barbarian/Rogue might be a winner here. Go Barbarian first to grab that Constitution saving throw proficiency and you can use up to medium armor, no problem. Only issue I can see is a lack of skills, but I don't even know if that is needed for this build.

If the armor is super important, remember that Sneak Attack won't work with non-finesse weapons. Rogue 3/Fighter X could possibly work, but there are other splits. Look at the Assassin (which is the subclass I assume you're going for) and determine what is really necessary for the build/concept, and make the rest fighter.

Please keep in mind I haven't watched Game of Thrones.

[Flashy]

You don't really need to go Strength​ based unless you want some Barb. Expertise Athletics....

Just makes you more MAD really.

Sneak attack just requires a finesse weapon, you aren't actually forced to use dex as the attack stat. Since you're forced to dip into something that gets at least medium armor anyway strength seems perfectly valid for this build.

[leoryff]

You need some gamma radiation and a special super soldier cocktail. Most effective if mixed by a German scientist. (Don't get too attached to him though.)

[Corran]

Do I start Fighter or Rogue?
Fighter. Much better saves, and 1 extra hit point in the long run. No brainer if you want to go strength based and use heavy armor, but still the better choice even if you want to go dex-based with medium or light armor. The better saves are the important bit, and they are worth it at the cost of one skill less imo.


What split of Fighter and Rogue is optimal?
More rogue is better imo. Something like fighter5/rogue15 the idea. Splits like 6/14 and 7/13 have their merits too, depending on which subclasses you will use.


Should I be gunning for Full Plate, or just coasting of lighter armors?
Totally up to you. Each approach has its advantages.


ps: I suggest battlemaster for the fighter. If you build your defenses enough, you might want to look to pick up the sentinel feat at some point (near the mid levels).

[djreynolds]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?405449-Shield-Master-Rogue-The-Iron-Scoundrel

http://burrowowl.net/2014/10/the-5e-savage-duelist/

I have based many melee builds off these two concepts, Easy_Lee's iron scoundrel rocks

Fighter, barbarian, rogue.... just enough dex for medium armor and shield master and resilient wisdom and max out strength. I prefer half-orc for savage duelist. Battle master is good, but champion will benefit more from advantage from reckless attack and/or shield master. Shield and rapier and breast plate (for stealth) or half-plate

[Findulidas]

It will work. It wont be super optimal but who cares if its fun and its what you want anyway.

[djreynolds]

Any fighter and rogue will do, but honestly I prefer EK and AT, if only for some extra spells.

14/14/15/8/12/11...... half orc 16/14/16/8/12/8

Seriously, EK and AT will give you some spells for buff or utility.

If not raging and using reckless attack, you can spam the shield spell

As mentioned, there 2 great builds/guides out there and these builds are my favorite. Dirty, gritty, dungeon crawl D&D.

[Willie the Duck]

Just make sure it's worth the investment. If your warrior-rogue is getting to sneak attack every round anyways (perhaps because the DM is soft on familiar aiding attacks or the equivalent), then spending the feat on medium-armor mastery and two-weapon fighting might net you a similar AC and more damage.

[SharkForce]

rogues should almost always be able to get sneak attack. all it takes is one adjacent ally. you might not get it on the target you want, but you should be able to get it.

[MeeposFire]

Yea the big benefit is not just giving yourself advantage (though that is always good) but that it can grant your allies the same and reduces the targets mobility.

[Arcran]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback everybody! I think I have a decent idea about how to go about this now.

Thanks all!

[suplee215]

is UA allowed? Minotaur makes going Barb unneeded due to auto adv on any shove attempt.

[Citan]

So, I'm thinking of playing a bit of a "Dirty Knight" kind of character, along the lines from Game of Thrones, and I think some sort of Fighter/Rogue hybrid will fit that the best. It looks to me that Shield Master would make the build fairly killer, but was wondering if anybody had advice for the build beyond that.

Right now, I'm mostly wondering the following:

Do I start Fighter or Rogue?
What split of Fighter and Rogue is optimal?
Should I be gunning for Full Plate, or just coasting of lighter armors?

I'd say it depends on two things.
1/ Do you plan on being spellcaster (EK / AT)?
2/ Do you plan on being stealthy?

If yes to both, start Fighter for the Constitution proficiency, and play as a DEX-based character (having 14 in STR is enough with Expertise). That way, you will have good or better saves in STR (class), DEX (stat), CON (class) and ultimately WIS (if high Rogue).

If yes to 2nd only, either class is fine although I'd suggest DEX-based Rogue for extra Stealth and DEX saves.

If no to both, go as STR-based starting Rogue with heavy/medium armor depending on your DEX.