Arcane trickster Overshadowed, by dragon sorcerer and crazy multi-UA sorcadinlock

[Regius]

A bit of a Preface, - this isn't about power - nor is it about each class having their own role, and certainley it is not about the Charisma overlap of the three - the rogue has a 10 in charisma.

Recentley I stared a new campaign, not my first rodeo, using a custom setting and all the bells and whistles when it comes to homebrew. the players have been playing in my campaigns for just a bit more than a year by this point and we all know each other quite well, their characters are as follows;

protector Aasimar (dragon) sorcerer (7) with an angelic flavouring to his sorcerer abilities
AC 17, HP 60, stat 10 18 18 10 11 20, Noble background, pearl of power

Human Ancients Paladin (3) pheonix sorc (2) (undying light) lock (2) with some extra blade cantrips. sword'n'board
AC 22 (and possible shield), HP 74, stat 18 10 18 9 9 18, Noble background Knight variant, cloack of protection - new guy, who let me help build a char for him.

Variant Human Arcane trickster rogue (using weapon master for a longbow), Bookish adventurer magical indiana jones
AC 18, HP 61, stat 11 20 18 18 16 10, Urchin background, Cloak of protection, expertise in insight, investigation, perception, and stealth

I use a custom way of rolling stats to generate above average Distros to encourage feats, and a few other houserule systems not pertinent to this disscussion. at the session 0 and soon after the rogue player, was 100% focused on playing a rogue, she would've done last campaign but decided against it, and had prettymuch decided before session 0, as had the sorc on playing sorc but not necasserilary on dragon sorc.

my problem, playground, is twofold, on one hand she excells out of combat in travel skills, but in the dungeon unless it's checking for traps she really is in the background only using her sneak attack on a turn in combat, not really able to contribute and massivley out shined by the others, in addition the roles she does excel at - perception and investigation - could be done, albiet not as well by the others, in addition just from flavour, it certainley seems like she's just part of the retinue - to superman and shazam.

is there something I can give her, or some sort of homebrew alteration that might get her to be more on par with the others? some way I can make her a ittle bit less mundane? or would I be overstepping my mark as a DM?

[jaappleton]

After going over things, you're cool with UA and tweaks to things. That's a fair assessment, right?

Look at the SCAG cantrips.

My suggestion would be to allow her to use Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade with her longbow. Greenflame Arrow and Booming Arrow.

The Trickster will NEVER have the spell selection of the Paladin/Sorc/Warlock, or even the Dragon Sorc. It just won't happen. The Trickster doesn't have the slots, progression or the selection.

Although... If the Dragon Sorc Twinn'd Haste to let the Trickster get a second action, the Trickster could hold that second action and unleash another Sneak Attack. It is once per turn, not once per round.

[Lombra]

Look at the class' skills and try to implement encounters (not necessary combat encounters) to make them shine. A rogue is good when he gets the chance to sneak around and ambush or scout ahead, ultimately you should think about the character concept and maybe lay a magic item that makes that character much better then the other two at his purpose. The one other problem is that UA multiclass is a mess and when you compare it with the weakest (well, one of the hardest to play at least) archetype of the rogue the difference feels heightened.

[Specter]

Include more encounters in the adventuring day. A Rogue's Sneak Attack is an always-on feature, whereas all the boom of the other two lasts only for a few rounds.

It's common for adventures with few encounters to be trumped by Sorcerers, especislly the Palasorc. So it's not really the rogue being bad, it's the others being in their niche.

[Sir cryosin]

In the newer warlock UA there's a pack of the blade Invocation for the fey Patron called moonbow. Have this rogue fine a magic bow that's enchated with that effect.

Moon Bow. A silvery white wood longbow etched with pictures and runes Fey origin. When you draw back its string and fire, it creates an arrow of white wood, which vanishes after 1 minute. You have advantage on attack rolls against lycanthropes with the bow. When you hit a creature with it, you can expend a spell slot to deal an additional 2d8 radiant damage to the target per spell level.

[KnotaGuru]

Does the rogue player feel left behind or is this just an observation on your part? If you increase her damage output encounters will become trivial forcing you to increase the difficulty.

You could give her additional options to perform with mage hand (a defining feature of the trickster) as a bonus (cunning) action, such as disarm, trip, blind (cover enemy eyes for 1 round), dazed (just bitch-slapped by an invisible hand for 1 round).

[MrStabby]

Use illusions more. These usually take an int check, something the arcane trickster is good at. Also uncertainty as to whether a target is real provides an incentive for the other characters not to nova and for more always on damage types to be a little better.

[Mortis_Elrod]

gonna go ahead and say see where it goes first. The player may end up being alot more useful in play than on paper. If it becomes a problem, like the rogue not enjoying the game, THATS when you do something. But before that just play, maybe let the rogue investigate things more, or have puzzles that cater to the characters concept of Indiana Jones. Definitely at least once, let the rogue use mage hand and a bag of sand to swap out something with the bag of sand. Indiana Jones would have loves mage hand.

[solidork]

It won't help with combat, but maybe you could offer a souped up version of Ritual Caster as a feat? For instance, she could pick two classes to be able to learn rituals from. It seems like it would fit her character concept well, and it would be very useful, it might only reinforce her dissatisfaction with being in a 'supporting' role.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Sharpshooter is a pretty strong feat for a ranged martial of any stripe. As for the dungeon and set piece battles, try building things that are better suited to the skills she's got.


Although... If the Dragon Sorc Twinn'd Haste to let the Trickster get a second action, the Trickster could hold that second action and unleash another Sneak Attack. It is once per turn, not once per round.

That is an absolutely filthy abuse of the action economy and sneak attack.

I approve.

[SharkForce]

i'm going to second the speculation that your party doesn't get into the expected number of encounters per day. you have two very nova-capable classes, and one class not so capable of novas. the "typical" adventuring day is supposed to be something like 2-3 encounters, short rest, 2-3 more encounters, short rest, 2-3 more encounters, long rest. that can be hard to sustain, but you really do need something to drain resources (and prevent them from just resting immediately upon expending resources, or at least make it undesirable, for example by having the dungeon react to knowing that they've got hours of setup time and the knowledge that they are currently being invaded).

conveniently, many of the things a bunch of monsters resisting an invasion would likely try in such a situation should be things that help the rogue shine. simple traps (i'm not talking about digging tons of perfectly-concealed pit traps, but putting down animal traps covered in debris, tripwire-triggered crossbows, boulders at the top of a gradient ready to fall on the party etc), closing and locking any and all doors, setting up ambushes, setting up barricades and defensive positions with stuff like caltrops and spiked moats, possibly destroying anything that's like a bridge... the sort of thing where a scout would be very nice to have. monsters should probably patrol more often (making it harder to get rests easily), be more prepared to retreat to a stronger prepared position or respond to calls for help, maybe even travel in larger groups. any special things that would normally be held in reserve (greek fire, potions, and other single-use stuff) should be put to use as well. maybe even some gear that is normally a bit more inconvenient (pikes for the second row of monsters, heavier armour), a few throwing weapons for closing distance or for use from cover) suddenly feels a lot less inconvenient for the creatures in your dungeon as well. have monsters at the top of the stairs with ranged weapons break oil flasks on the stairs forcing dex saves to climb without falling (and sliding down to the bottom) for some damage. if your players were faced with some deadly threat invading their homes, they would use every trick they could think of to fight dirty. expect the same for their enemies... the first day of clearing a dungeon should be thought of as "the easy day", with every day getting progressively worse until the inhabitants run out of resources to make it worse; the more stuff they kill on the first day, the fewer enemies are available to help set up traps and fortify an area, and the fewer enemies they'll have to fight in trapped and fortified areas tomorrow. give them a *reason* to want to get as much done as possible each day. if there's a necromancer, have them animate corpses (and reanimate them - a destroyed zombie still leaves a corpse, after all) and use those for traps as well. just look at the resources the creatures in the dungeon have available, and then have them use them (and also, make sure you give them some resources to use... an armoury with unused weapons and armour and tools, crates full of caltrops, poison that can be put on caltrops that only lasts for a day, etc). if the party is willing to push hard enough (and they push in the right direction), have it possible for them to maybe take out some of that equipment as well as the manpower required to deploy it :)

(and if the dungeon inhabitants do have burrowing creatures, just try to imagine all the ways you could use those as a player, and ask yourself if someone in the dungeon would be smart enough and capable of putting that to good use... which will probably actually mean tons of pit traps after all ;) )

another thing: enemies shouldn't (usually) fight to the death mindlessly. i mean, skeletons or zombies, sure, maybe some constructs, but most enemies when they see things going badly should run away. at some point, if faced with a foe that is going to slowly kill them and nothing they do slows down or stops the party, expect most dungeon inhabitants to just leave. and of course, they're going to take everything of value with them if they can.

but seriously, it sounds suspiciously like you need to motivate the party to manage resources. at some point, consistently hitting with sneak attack every round should start to sound pretty good when everyone else is trying to conserve resources so that they can do more in a day.

[Regius]

Thanks for all the replies guys, although some of you probably need to read the question before deciding on an answer or telling me of course I'm having problems I'm allowing MC UA. Although only a few answers were helpful I have certainley enjoyed seeing the multitude of generic "you need more encounters anwswers".


After going over things, you're cool with UA and tweaks to things. That's a fair assessment, right?

My suggestion would be to allow her to use Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade with her longbow. Greenflame Arrow and Booming Arrow.

The Trickster will NEVER have the spell selection of the Paladin/Sorc/Warlock, or even the Dragon Sorc. It just won't happen. The Trickster doesn't have the slots, progression or the selection.

huh, I never thought to do something like that perhaps not GFB or BB directly converted as they aren't really to a rogue's style, but maybe something along those lines. like perhaps one that procs additional damage on the next hit on a target. and perhaps I could do smething about the selection,


In the newer warlock UA there's a pack of the blade Invocation for the fey Patron called moonbow. Have this rogue fine a magic bow that's enchated with that effect.

Moon Bow. A silvery white wood longbow etched with pictures and runes Fey origin. When you draw back its string and fire, it creates an arrow of white wood, which vanishes after 1 minute. You have advantage on attack rolls against lycanthropes with the bow. When you hit a creature with it, you can expend a spell slot to deal an additional 2d8 radiant damage to the target per spell level.

hmmm, maybe not that exactly but something along thoselines would be a good reward, perhaps floor(slot level/4)*sneak-attack as radiant damage or another more arcane type like force, perhaps some otherways to use resources in combat



It won't help with combat, but maybe you could offer a souped up version of Ritual Caster as a feat? For instance, she could pick two classes to be able to learn rituals from. It seems like it would fit her character concept well, and it would be very useful, it might only reinforce her dissatisfaction with being in a 'supporting' role.

ooooh, I kinda like that, it definetley adds more reason to use magic and makes her a bit less of a mundy, but yeah as you mention it doesn't really solve most of the problem.


The player may end up being alot more useful in play than on paper.
we're already in play though? as I said we started the campaign, if not it'd have read "starting a campaign"

ok, to answer the rest of you, who didn't actually answer what I asked, I'll explain a bit more what I'm looking for.


A bit of a Preface, - this isn't about power - nor is it about each class having their own role, and certainley it is not about the Charisma overlap of the three - the rogue has a 10 in charisma.

to those of you who tell me I need more encounters and to expend more of my parties resources - I can tell you that I already do, it's not about power, it's about diversity, he player in question already complained to me a while back that she felt like she didn't have options in combat, and regularly finds it boring, dispite my best efforts =<

It's about giving her more interesting things to do on her turn rather than just hide+sneakattack which will get old fast if that's all she's doing (as you and I no the arcane trickster spells are not suited for that save Hold person) so I was looking t=for things to spice up her turn and bring out the character more.


only using her sneak attack on a turn in combat, not really able to contribute and massivley out shined by the others, in addition the roles she does excel at - perception and investigation - could be done, albiet not as well by the others, in addition just from flavour, it certainley seems like she's just part of the retinue - to superman and shazam.

as demonstrated in this bit here where I point out that the only thing she adds to combat - which you're suggesting I put more in - and that the other issue is that the expertise doesnt shine as much, however I have taken on board your points about more simple traps to help with the use of that, however I really don't want it to dissolve into either an OD&D dungeon crawl or just be a waste of words.


is there something I can give her, or some sort of homebrew alteration that might get her to be more on par with the others? some way I can make her a ittle bit less mundane? or would I be overstepping my mark as a DM?

so I'll rephrase my question for those whose reading comprehension was struggling,
can you give me some Ideas for abilities/items/changes to the class rules/anything that will give her more capabilites?

oh and I'll adress this gem specifically cause I get to sperg big time,



Look at the class' skills and try to implement encounters (not necessary combat encounters) to make them shine. A rogue is good when he gets the chance to sneak around and ambush or scout ahead,

have you actually done the math for this, it's actually quite enlightening, it's not that the rogue shines, quite the opposite in fact. see the rogue sneak attack is balanced against the fighter's multiattack it's why it's a once per turn thing, only the only issues are the rogue must wither be hidden, have advantage, or be attacking a target engage by another creature to fight on par with the fighter, and even then all of the rogue's damage is gambled on one attack roll, whilst the fighter's damage is split across four discrete chunks, meaning that the rogue (save the assasin which is what your thinking of) actually needs to sneak, skulk and strike to be on par with the rest of the classes.


ultimately you should think about the character concept and maybe lay a magic item that makes that character much better then the other two at his purpose.
I like this as a philosphy about items in 5e but really that's how the DM should deal with items any way give the player an item that compliments the skillset, though deciding to is the tricky part.


The one other problem is that UA multiclass is a mess and when you compare it with the weakest (well, one of the hardest to play at least) archetype of the rogue the difference feels heightened.
you don't think I didn't know that already, seriously I wouldn't have suggested they play as an arcane trickster, though to be honest I never felt rogue's were a good class in 5e as the AE kinda screws them over, considering they have to use the whole set to play as a kind of subpar stealthy fighter, the rest of the class which centers around out of combat skills is absolutley excellent. though I wish for once they'd offer archetypes for more legitimate runnings like detectives and explorers, but hey what am I to do.
and here you even highlight the point of the thread I have incrediby powerful characters - okay maybe just one - so how do I bring the rogue up there? Nerfing is a bad idea, bring the others up (provided nobody ends up casting three wishes a day) you can still run a functioning game you just need to put in more work, especially if you control the rate that power climbs

[Beelzebubba]

You're kind of being a jerk, dude. People are taking time out to help, at least be gracious.

I'd personally work with the Trickster spellcasting. Expand their spell selection, or home-brew spells that would give them the kind of options they want. Rangers get Ensnaring Strike and Hail of Thorns, why are Tricksters limited only to Wizard spells? Make new ones just for that character.

I like that Sword Coast cantrip idea, but if you go through that, the Elemental Evil companion (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/EE_PlayersCompanion.pdf), and UA Starter Spells (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-Starter-Spells.pdf), there are plenty of other ideas to build on top of.

Things that add conditions, force movement, knock prone, make enemies attack each other, stuff like that are really fun. It's not just the hit points, it's the confusion factor.

[Sir cryosin]

The player feels bored because they have no creativity. Just a simple I wrote hit I had I do the X damage yeah that's boring but if you spice it up by describing how it looks it could make it so much better. "I run slide in between the the Giants legs turning around letting loose one shot right in the back of its spine then doing a combat roll into the other side of a rock." That was the attack action and bonus action.
" I run over to that large bolder run up. Leap into the giants neck." Here the player is using the help action. And the DM can call for a roll to make it on the giant or one to keep on the giant.


My point is people are feel combats are boring. It because it not descriptive. Thats one reason why people subconsciously like playing casters or classes with fancy abilities. It because those spells and abilities have descriptors of what they do and look like. So we can imagine them a little bit more easily when we say we use such and such ability or sucking such spell. But when it comes to Marshall classes like the Rogue or the fighter we have to come up with the descriptions of how it looks. And it's also up to you as the DM to keep the game in exciting and fun. If you just say art roll are you hit or how much damage do you do that's not fun. If the player is not creative enough to describe their own attack scenes then you as the DM do it for them that will make the combat so much cooler to them they're like oh wow I just did that.

P.S don't be a prick. The way you typed out your problem. It didn't sound like your player was bored in combats. It sounded like you have different power rangers and the rogue was feel weak compared to the other players.

[Contrast]

to those of you who tell me I need more encounters and to expend more of my parties resources - I can tell you that I already do, it's not about power, it's about diversity, he player in question already complained to me a while back that she felt like she didn't have options in combat, and regularly finds it boring, dispite my best efforts =<

...I mean the issue seems to be that the others get to sling spells and do interesting things all the time. They should be having to rely on cantrips at least some of the time at which point the rogue should be outshining them. You didn't say how many encounters you were doing a day and this would be the obvious cause of the problem you're experiencing in the majority of cases so I wouldn't get too snippy with people for raising it as a potential issue :smalltongue:


It's about giving her more interesting things to do on her turn rather than just hide+sneakattack which will get old fast if that's all she's doing (as you and I no the arcane trickster spells are not suited for that save Hold person) so I was looking t=for things to spice up her turn and bring out the character more.

Honestly, if her idea of fun isn't sneak attacking every turn in combat (supplemented with the mobility and flexibility provided by Cunning Action) then rogue simply isn't the class for her. That is what you will spend your time doing. You could maybe allow a rebuild as a strength rogue as Shield Master gives you some options with shoving but your bread and butter every turn will be 'I attack the thing I can sneak attack'. If that doesn't appeal to her at some point you just have to sit down and ask the question 'are you sure this is the class you want to play?'. Maybe offer a rebuild as a valor bard or something (with Int as a casting stat if that fits her character better).

[SharkForce]

ok, so... the character isn't choosing to do much then. got it.

first thing: consider a minor character rebuild. or a major one.

weapon master is a terrible feat. so rebuild pick something more interesting. maybe magic initiate for more cantrips, because there are some fairly interesting ones out there, especially in the elemental evil book. also consider possibly splashing in some other classes. if she really wants to use a longbow (which is tbh not that much better than a shortbow, especially for a rogue) and only make one attack per round, she will need to make the most of it. a level or three of fighter might be interesting here. battlemaster can give her some really interesting options with a bow, including at least being able to greatly increase the chance of hitting, action surge 1/rest, better scouting (if you can find out things by observing creatures, who better to have that on than a rogue?), archery combat style, and a small self-heal. maybe even the healer feat, which she should be able to use her mage hand for. or maybe the feat to add more superiority dice and options for them. perhaps the skulker feat would be another option instead of weapon master. you could also consider splashing in some shadow monk, which might give her some interesting options. or maybe even change race, if she feels comfortable with that... elves would give her bow proficiency and potentially some other interesting stuff like a bonus cantrip or the ability to hide in natural environments, depending on which type of elf she goes for.

second thing: make better use of the already available options.

look at the cantrips she has. she should get a few as an arcane trickster (note: the cantrips are not limited by school), and in particular, she gets bonus action mage hand. she also gets regular cunning action every round, which can be used to hide for advantage on attacks. what i would suggest is that the character needs to use the options available. for example, caltrops and bags of marbles are perfect for mage hand, as are flasks of oil in the right terrain (remember those stairs i mentioned earlier?). you might also try something like smoke bombs (or just scattering some powdery stuff in the air... like pepper or cinnamon, at 2gp per pound, which should have some interesting effects on anyone passing through that cloud :smallamused: ), stealing arrows out of quivers, triggering traps that enemies have set up... you can do a *lot* with mage hand alone. if mending was her second cantrip, she'd be able to repair a lot of things that got damaged by use as well, so those caltrops, marbles, etc can all be reused more easily. a bottomless bag of tricks (caltrops, oil, marbles, etc) might be an interesting item to make use of bonus action mage hand, actually. you could probably even place (though i doubt you could arm) animal traps and tie them to various objects.

additionally, you may need to look at what out-of-school spells have been chosen. not everything needs to be enchantment and illusion. you could even consider removing that restriction entirely, by the way... i've never heard of it breaking anyone's campaign to do that.

but seriously, i would strongly consider that character rebuild. even if it's just minor tweaks (replacing the weapon master feat for something that isn't terrible, changing cantrips, retroactively buying a bunch of stuff to use her mage hand on, etc), it can make a difference. just remember to tweak flavour as appropriate; just because she's picking battlemaster mechanically doesn't mean she has to love war, it can very easily be refluffed as having picked up a few tricks along the way to help get out of a tight spot.

[djreynolds]

A bit of a Preface, - this isn't about power - nor is it about each class having their own role, and certainley it is not about the Charisma overlap of the three - the rogue has a 10 in charisma.

Recentley I stared a new campaign, not my first rodeo, using a custom setting and all the bells and whistles when it comes to homebrew. the players have been playing in my campaigns for just a bit more than a year by this point and we all know each other quite well, their characters are as follows;

protector Aasimar (dragon) sorcerer (7) with an angelic flavouring to his sorcerer abilities
AC 17, HP 60, stat 10 18 18 10 11 20, Noble background, pearl of power

Human Ancients Paladin (3) pheonix sorc (2) (undying light) lock (2) with some extra blade cantrips. sword'n'board
AC 22 (and possible shield), HP 74, stat 18 10 18 9 9 18, Noble background Knight variant, cloack of protection - new guy, who let me help build a char for him.

Variant Human Arcane trickster rogue (using weapon master for a longbow), Bookish adventurer magical indiana jones
AC 18, HP 61, stat 11 20 18 18 16 10, Urchin background, Cloak of protection, expertise in insight, investigation, perception, and stealth


I'm assuming 7th level rogue, 4d6 SA every turn so long as the paladin is in combat and 5 feet from the enemy.

You have cunning action which allows you to hide as a bonus action after shooting with an arrow, thus gaining advantage for the next round to sneak attack if an ally is not with 5ft

You a 20 in dexterity

You have uncanny dodge, which makes that 61 HP very large, any attack you can see, once a turn, you take half damage.

If you are having a tough time hit in combat with bad die rolls, try gaining advantage as much as possible, and have the paladin spam bless

[Steampunkette]

So let's talk about Encounter Design.

Right now you've got two pretty great Nova characters and one pretty great constant damage character. I'm going to presume the Paladin is fairly Single-Target on the nova with hefty Smites and things of that nature, right? While the Dragon Sorcerer focuses, more heavily, on AoE. And the Rogue, of Course, is on Single-Target duty.

The biggest issues I see going into this discussion are going to be placement and movement. Large clusters of enemies will trigger the Sorcerer's AoE focus while singular hard targets are going to make the Paladin shine. Unfortunately, the Rogue -also- needs single targets to really benefit from the sneak-attack ability.

So split some focus.

Place a handful of fairly strong archers in several disparate areas of the battlefield, a direct danger to the Paladin through volleys of deadly attacks. Give the Paladin a powerful single foe, perhaps some form of large and meaty enemy to focus on, while the meaty enemy's reinforcements harry the Paladin in clusters.

The Paladin has good reason to aim for the singular foe, with some small AoE option thanks to the reinforcements, that must be locked down before it kills the squishier PCs. That should sate them nicely. The Sorcerer has the clusters of harriers to blow up with targeted AoEs that never quite get -all- of them because they're too close to the paladin. While the Archer-Trickster gets to fulfill a very specific and important role in targeting the ranged attackers that might otherwise pose a much more serious danger to the Paladin.

Give the Arcane Trickster some clear movement options to allow her to circle the field and take advantage of the environment using skills in combat. An Acrobatics check to walk up a Buttress that supports a balcony while firing arrows, for example, can make for some pretty epic moments as far as visualization and personal satisfaction go, while putting her in a position to gain a benefit (Advantage) thanks to the higher ground and/or cover she'll receive on that balcony from the ranged attackers. Make sure she has ample opportunity to use Cunning Action, as well! Forcing Dashes and Disengaging can make her feel defensively powerful or tactically brilliant.

Maybe even give her a magical bow that allows Rogues that wield it to gain access to a special Cunning Action ability: Bonus Action Shot. It's still a Magic Bow for anyone else, but she gets to do that because she's -got- Cunning Action. Heck, maybe even have the Magic Bow impart Arcane Knowledge of some specific archery-spells that Arcane Tricksters don't normally get access to. Conjure Barrage, for example, could help her feel like she's contributing to encounters that don't have the tailored bits for her to benefit from.

Your Paladin is going to wade into enemies. Your Sorcerer is going to play the part of a turret. Make the Rogue MOVE AROUND. That, alone, can make her feel like a much more dynamic and interesting character, even if she's not flinging massive damage around.

[Gtdead]

Well that's the thing, I don't see why the rogue is overshadowed. Combat isn't a rogue's strong point. You can optimize and do the double sa trick, but a rogue excels at scouting, initiating, stunts and social.

Something you can do is make her use a handbow with CE or give an item that grants haste once per day. Rogue with haste is an extremely strong skirmisher.