Adventuring a dungeon

[Pr6i6e6st]

How do you guys do your dungeon diving?

I usually make or generate a random map, and let the players wander freely until combat ensues.

I'm not sure how this effects their frame of mind though. We play on fantasy grounds and I'll just unlock their tokens and remove the fog of war as they move along, describing any details as they go.

But there's been a lot of cases where no one rolls perception, and they all or most get hit by a trap. I would have killed everyone if I hadn't decided to fudge the damage rolls and leave them with like 1hp each.

So I mean, should I suggest they roll perception for each corner? Or should I take one perception roll each and run with that roll for a while?

Should I let them wander the mazes? Or should I do some kind of rolls to hasten the process?

How do you guys run dungeon dives, especially with mini's, or fantasy grounds?

[The Cats]

You could try making more use of passive perception. Even if their passive isn't high enough to see the trap, you could let whoever has the highest know "you notice something ____ about the ____" that would signal the need for a check without breaking immersion.

Don't use minis so can't offer much else.

[ThurlRavenscrof]

You could try making more use of passive perception. Even if their passive isn't high enough to see the trap, you could let whoever has the highest know "you notice something ____ about the ____" that would signal the need for a check without breaking immersion.

Don't use minis so can't offer much else.

Yeah get the players to write down their passive perception on a sheet of paper and keep it behind your screen.

Sounds like you're wanting them to incorporate some player skill into their gameplay but they might not have player skill. One way to teach them basic dungeon delving strategy is to have an old adventurer NPC go with the group on a quest and do all the things you expect the group to do like check for traps or carry around sand to find trap doors. Then you can use those same types of obstacles he overcame in the next dungeon and the players will have the skills to overcome them

[Pr6i6e6st]

Yeah get the players to write down their passive perception on a sheet of paper and keep it behind your screen.

Sounds like you're wanting them to incorporate some player skill into their gameplay but they might not have player skill. One way to teach them basic dungeon delving strategy is to have an old adventurer NPC go with the group on a quest and do all the things you expect the group to do like check for traps or carry around sand to find trap doors. Then you can use those same types of obstacles he overcame in the next dungeon and the players will have the skills to overcome them

Ok. After almost getting TPK'd twice, they've decided to retreat and interrogate a captive Orc, find out what a PC who has missed a few sessions has found out in the library, and maybe find someone to help guide them down there. They had a couple NPC's with them but none knew the area, and the players insisted they stay back (even though the NPCs are stronger than any of them. They're kind of my safeguard for if things get out of hand).

I'll be giving them a gnome to help guide them if they look for him.

Whats going on so far is they've escaped wrongful execution when the city came under attack and was burned to the ground. They've headed to the nearest city and told the local king of the attack and other rumours of dwarves going missing and stuff.

The King says he has his own problems as gnomish miners have gone missing and his daughter as well. So the party agreed to investigate the mines. They're under the city in the catacombs trying to find the entrance to the mines.

[ThurlRavenscrof]

Ok. After almost getting TPK'd twice, they've decided to retreat and interrogate a captive Orc, find out what a PC who has missed a few sessions has found out in the library, and maybe find someone to help guide them down there. They had a couple NPC's with them but none knew the area, and the players insisted they stay back (even though the NPCs are stronger than any of them. They're kind of my safeguard for if things get out of hand).

I'll be giving them a gnome to help guide them if they look for him.

Whats going on so far is they've escaped wrongful execution when the city came under attack and was burned to the ground. They've headed to the nearest city and told the local king of the attack and other rumours of dwarves going missing and stuff.

The King says he has his own problems as gnomish miners have gone missing and his daughter as well. So the party agreed to investigate the mines. They're under the city in the catacombs trying to find the entrance to the mines.

Yeah sounds like your group learned the value of research. I think that's a hard skill to learn because you don't have to do much research in video games and people think d&d will be the same. Sounds like they're on the right track

[Theodoxus]

Sounds like the group is pretty new to table top gaming.

What I do, if I have a new player just learning the game, is pull punches like you did - and then explain after the encounter how the group could have avoided or minimized whatever went wrong - provided it was their playstyle and not just bad dice rolls.

I mean, if they're doing everything right and the dice aren't having any of it - that's just the gods giving them a bad day.

But if they don't request additional information; if they aren't thinking 3 dimensionally (alway look up at the ceilings, it's where the 'bad things' live!); if they haven't let you know that they are being alert for inconsistencies (so passive perception is "on"), etc... well, those are learned behavior.

Someone might clue in faster - but rarely have I seen a true novice actually grok the nuances without being told first.

[Thrudd]

You describe what the characters see at any given moment. Perception and search results should always be secret. You should have a list of all the characters' passive perception and investigation scores, and compare them to the DC of traps and secrets. For most traps and secrets, you might actually give subtle hints in your descriptions, and if the players don't then decide the detail is worth investigating, check their passive score, and if that isn't high enough, then they get surprised by the trap or bypass the secret.

If the players tell you that they want to stop and listen carefully or ask to look carefully at something, then you make the perception or investigation roll for them, in secret, and decide what to tell them based on the results.

For dungeons, you never put up a map of the whole dungeon for them to see. They should see only what their characters can see. When there is a combat and you use minis, what you put out on the table is what the characters can see and that's all - just the room they are in, or the hallway, and the rocks or trees or furniture or doors that are nearby. If they start running through the dungeon, you keep the "fog of war" around them in a radius equal to the range of their sight or light source, and describe what they can see and hear.

A good idea for them is to assign a player to make a map as they go, at least a crude one, so they know which way they came and where they might want to go in the future. Remember the character that is making the map would need to have both hands free to do that, their weapons and other items put away. The accuracy of the map they make is not your concern, so long as you are giving them accurate information - it's for them only and if it's all wrong that's something they'll need to deal with when it comes up.