Does True Polymorph create new souls?

[Koningkrush]

What are the philosophical implications of creating an intelligent humanoid, say a regular human, using True Polymorph on a tea cup? Does it have any memories, beliefs, motives, morals, etc.?

[Hypersmith]

It clearly will quickly turn and call the kettle black

Other than that it's a real interesting question, maybe it "borrows" souls?

[Koningkrush]

I suppose one possibility is that it creates a carbon copy of an existing soul, from somewhere, along with all the memories and personality that come with it. Otherwise, the result would be creating a fully grown adult man without much more intelligence than an infant.

The problem with this is, which soul? Would it just be a random draw, ending up with Joe the Farmer?

[90sMusic]

I would argue that souls can only be created through divine means by gods.
Any object turned into a creature would not have a soul in my opinion.

Might make an interesting quest actually, to try and get a soul for something that doesn't have one.

As far as memories, beliefs, personal experiences.... The spell says say it uses a standard of whatever creature, not custom or specialized ones, so i'd say it would have about the average personality, beliefs, etc of whatever kind of creature it is. For a human this would probably be a peasant of some sort since the vast majority of people in these kinds of worlds (realistically speaking) are going to be peasants, most likely farmers.

[Koningkrush]

I would argue that souls can only be created through divine means by gods.
Any object turned into a creature would not have a soul in my opinion.

One option is to let the spell be able to create souls, and let any who use the spell for such means invite the wrath of such gods upon them. It is a 9th level spell, so it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities.

[MadBear]

I would argue that souls can only be created through divine means by gods.
Any object turned into a creature would not have a soul in my opinion.

Might make an interesting quest actually, to try and get a soul for something that doesn't have one.

As far as memories, beliefs, personal experiences.... The spell says say it uses a standard of whatever creature, not custom or specialized ones, so i'd say it would have about the average personality, beliefs, etc of whatever kind of creature it is. For a human this would probably be a peasant of some sort since the vast majority of people in these kinds of worlds (realistically speaking) are going to be peasants, most likely farmers.

Heck, that could be the basis for the formation of an entire campaign. The argument over whether polymorphed creatures have souls. You'd have hardliner clerics denying that they do, while others would argue that of course they do. You could have a totalitarian regime that persecutes polymorphed creatures and subjugates them to do their bidding (it isn't slavery if their souless right?), while an underground movement seeks to free these wretched souls (ha). Leave the actual answer really murky until the end of the campaign (or never resolve it at all).

(I just realized this is the plot of Fallout 4)

[90sMusic]

This also makes me wonder if awakened plants have souls...

I'd say the awakening wouldn't give them a soul, but do plants have souls by default? I wouldn't think so... But maybe that is my animal lifeform bias.

[Koningkrush]

This also makes me wonder if awakened plants have souls...

I'd say the awakening wouldn't give them a soul, but do plants have souls by default? I wouldn't think so... But maybe that is my animal lifeform bias.

I'd say awakening gives something like an "animating spirit". This is what Speak with Dead says:

This spell doesn't return the creature's soul to its body, only its animating spirit. Thus, the corpse can't learn new information, doesn't comprehend anything that has happened since it died, and can't speculate about future events.

Given that True Polymorph is a 9th level spell, and the name has the word True before Polymorph, I'm leaning on the idea that what's created is indeed that creation in every way possible, including a soul.
The other option that might be easier, is to say that the new body simply just has an animating spirit.
The problem with everything is that none of this is supported by RAW and the book just leaves it to a DM call.

[90sMusic]

The problem is, an awakened plant CAN learn new skills and information. It is given an intelligence of 10 I believe, and is able to use that intelligence in a manner that any living creature would to choose how it wants to live, what it wants to do with it's new life, and so on. After the 30 day charm wears off, that plant may decide it likes helping the heroes or maybe it throws it's planthands up in the air and says "the heck with this" and wants to go back into the woods. Or maybe that tree you gave sentience to decides it wants to goto a local town and sells the apples it grows. It isn't really like speak with the dead at all, and it is an instantaneous effect and cannot be removed.

True Polymorph is wildly different. I don't believe it tinkers with souls at all because when you use it on a living creature, it retains it's alignment and personality and all that, it isn't changing their soul into a different soul like it changing their physical body. Also, it can be dispelled and removed if concentration is broken. So if it made a new soul, is that soul then instantly destroyed when the spell is broken for any reason? Or are you just adding new souls to the underworld constantly with every cast? Messing with souls really doesn't make sense for the spell.

I think alignment and personality is as close as you can get to "soul" and true polymorph says it doesn't affect it. And if it doesn't even change or modify an existing soul, why do you think it would just create a new one?

Also the name of the spell doesn't mean anything. Detect Good and Evil for example doesn't actually detect good or evil, it simply detects certain types of creatures.

[Lawful Good]

The other option that might be easier, is to say that the new body simply just has an animating spirit.
The problem with everything is that none of this is supported by RAW and the book just leaves it to a DM call.

This begs the question:
What is the animating spirit? Its obviously part of the person, as it contains their memories and ideas, but its not the soul. Maybe polymorphed creatures get this "spirit" that lets them have memories and be a person, but not a "soul" (i.e. when they die, they completely stop existing).