Clerics and Improvised Holy Symbols

[Guinea Anubis]

So since a cleric needs a holy symbol to cast his spells if he was caught and striped naked what could he use for an improvised holy symbol?

An easy one it a Cleric of Thor could just use a hammer. But some of the other gods have a lot more complex holy symbols.

So has anyone run in to this before?

[Drider]

like stripped naked? or given a complimentary loincloth of everlasting dont want to describe player nudity?
if the first one and you have a god of lust...then yea. with the second one you could take the loincloths off and they re-grow instantly and you just get enough, and twist them into shapes

[Yakk]

Complete Champion has a cantrip to summon a holy symbol appanently.

I'd allow Bless to be used on something somewhat appropriate to turn it into a holy symbol.

[Aquillion]

Hmm. Needs a "Drunken Cleric" PRC with the Improvised Holy Symbol ability, where they can grab any object and use it as a holy symbol.

They'd also get bonuses to their turning attempts when drunk.

[Telonius]

So since a cleric needs a holy symbol to cast his spells if he was caught and striped naked what could he use for an improvised holy symbol?

An easy one it a Cleric of Thor could just use a hammer. But some of the other gods have a lot more complex holy symbols.

So has anyone run in to this before?

Well, for certain fertility deities ...:smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, go through their portfolio. Anything that's a symbol of portfolio aspects could be used.

[ZeroNumerous]

What would the IHS of Heironious be?

[Telonius]

Let's see, Valor, justice ... I'd say, any bladed weapon, shortsword or bigger, ought to do in a pinch. Alternately, scratch a lightning-bolt symbol onto your shield.

[ZeroNumerous]

Let's see, Valor, justice ... I'd say, any bladed weapon, shortsword or bigger, ought to do in a pinch.

Ah-ha! But he's not a god of war. He's a god of defending the weak and downtrodden.


Alternately, scratch a lightning-bolt symbol onto your shield.

That would probably be best.

[Solo]

Let's see, Valor, justice ... I'd say, any bladed weapon, shortsword or bigger, ought to do in a pinch. Alternately, scratch a lightning-bolt symbol onto your shield.

Scratch one on your forehead for tons of gaming fun.

[PlatinumJester]

Tattoo one onto his skin and then below t make it say "Pelor loves you".

[MrNexx]

I would be very strict about improvised holy symbols. The requirement for a holy symbol is a big one for divine spellcasters, and giving them the ability to fudge one easily is just adding to their power; even a wooden holy symbol is 1gp (a third of a month's wages for a unskilled laborer). I'd require some sort of Craft Check unless the holy symbol is a common item, and then I'd require some sort Knowledge: Religion check to run a simple ceremony to empower it... you're paying for someone's work, after all.

[bigbaddragon]

If you happen to be a worshiper of Sovereign Host in Eberron campaign setting you could take the Worldly Focus feat (Faiths of Eberron) which allows you to cast divine spells without divine focus.

If the above doesn't apply you could maybe tattoo one on yourself (but take care that the process isn't exactly painless and think hard before you chose the location on your body because sometimes you'll have to present it :smallbiggrin: ).

[UserClone]

I think that in the PHB it mentions that Heironeous's worshippers often brand his holy symbol onto their inner forearm. As a DM I would rule that, if stripped naked, a cleric or paladin of said god would still be able to prepare/cast spells, as long as he presents his "Improvised" holy symbol. My thinking is, it depends on the god. If you follow a materialistic god, this probably wouldn't fly.

[averagejoe]

Complete Champion has a cantrip to summon a holy symbol appanently.

I'd allow Bless to be used on something somewhat appropriate to turn it into a holy symbol.

But you need a divine focus to cast bless! It's a religious catch 22. :smalltongue:

[MrNexx]

1st edition had a spell called "Ceremony" which would allow you to perform all the various ceremonies... including, IIRC, blessing items for use in the church.

[Thanatos 51-50]

"I'm a (Insert obscenely high level) cleric! I don't need a hoy symbol, I AM a holy symbol."

It worked... once.

[MrNexx]

"I'm a (Insert obscenely high level) cleric! I don't need a hoy symbol, I AM a holy symbol."

It worked... once.

At that point, the deity disabuses him of this notion.

[UglyPanda]

You can always use a knife or sharp stick and literally carve a new holy symbol into your hand or wrist. Tattoos work pretty well and it's the method of choice for VoP clerics.

Of course, you could always rip out somebody's eyeball if you're a cleric of Gruumsh or Vecna.

Edit: On second thought, don't say you're going to slice open your wrist. The palm works much better.

[F.H. Zebedee]

It must say, carving one's holy symbol into their palm in a dire straight is totally badass. I'd allow it on almost any occasion.

[Toric]

Convince the party rogue to take ranks in Profession (Contortionist) and have him roll a check to take the basic shape of your holy symbol whenever you need it. Annoint him with a little holy water and you'll be good to go. Just make sure you ask the DM first whether contortionism grants a synergy bonus to Escape Artist.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I would be very strict about improvised holy symbols.

You should listen to the Christmas Ogre, lest you will have clerics running around using heavy shields as holy symbols!

[Matthew]

You should listen to the Christmas Ogre, lest you will have clerics running around using heavy shields as holy symbols!

Heh, heh. A Cleric of a Cause could totally do that...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Heh, heh. A Cleric of a Cause could totally do that...

In a certain country bordering Oz, sure. :smalltongue:

[Matthew]

In a certain country bordering Oz, sure. :smalltongue:

I had to go and look that up, still gave me the giggles though. How do you feel about Paladin's who use their Swords as Holy Symbols?

[LordLocke]

I had to go and look that up, still gave me the giggles though. How do you feel about Paladin's who use their Swords as Holy Symbols?

Ask not what man thinks of your blade being a symbol of your faith. Ask your god what he thinks of you shoving his divine representation into every filthy, pus-filled orc, ogre, and owlbear that happens to wander by.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I had to go and look that up, still gave me the giggles though. How do you feel about Paladin's who use their Swords as Holy Symbols?

It is wearing the same shade of blue clothing as the aforementioned country's inhabitants. (Or if you prefer a movie reference: related to the midget in the colourful clothing.)

Balance-wise this is of course a smaller problem, but the RAW makes no Paladin exemptions.

[Matthew]

Ask not what man thinks of your blade being a symbol of your faith. Ask your god what he thinks of you shoving his divine representation into every filthy, pus-filled orc, ogre, and owlbear that happens to wander by.

I wonder what he would say? His Holy Symbol active in the world...


It is wearing the same shade of blue clothing as the aforementioned country's inhabitants. (Or if you prefer a movie reference: related to the midget in the colourful clothing.)

Balance-wise this is of course a smaller problem, but the RAW makes no Paladin exemptions.

What RAW are you thinking of that would prohibit it?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

What RAW are you thinking of that would prohibit it?

Holy Symbols are well-defined items and listed in the equipment section of the PHB.

Unless a specific deity list an exception the PHB limits you to silver or wooden holy symbols weighing a pound or less.

Other symbols were introduced in a splatbook (Complete Divine?), but they were just stressing the limitations of its nature.

[Leon]

My 2E Cleric of Torm has had a tattoo holy symbol since i started playing (joined that game as a striped naked and hung upside down prisoner - those evil little ninja bunnies....)

I think there is a spell that can create a new one, not 100% on that as my 2e knowledge is hazy

[Matthew]

Holy Symbols are well-defined items and listed in the equipment section of the PHB.

Unless a specific deity list an exception the PHB limits you to silver or wooden holy symbols weighing a pound or less.

Other symbols were introduced in a splatbook (Complete Divine?), but they were just stressing the limitations of its nature.

Okay, I was looking at the Magic Section. Still, I reckon a Paladin could combine a Holy Symbol with the pommel of his Sword. I'll look into it, maybe Complete Divine/Champion or Defenders of the Faith has something to say...

[Edit] Nah, looks like there is no option to combine a Holy Symbol with a Weapon or Armour, though these often prominantly display the symbol itself.


My 2E Cleric of Torm has had a tattoo holy symbol since i started playing (joined that game as a striped naked and hung upside down prisoner - those evil little ninja bunnies....)

I think there is a spell that can create a new one, not 100% on that as my 2e knowledge is hazy

Yes, the 2e version is called Create Holy Symbol and is Level 2 Creation Spell from Tome of Magic. The 3e version can be found in Complete Champion, where it is called Summon Holy Symbol (Cleric 0, Paladin 1), but it only lasts 1 Round per level.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

[Edit] Nah, looks like there is no option to combine a Holy Symbol with a Weapon or Armour, though these often prominantly display the symbol itself.


I could see a relic weapon having the properties of a Holy Symbol, but I still would not allow it to be used to circumvent somatic components of course.

[CyberWyld]

Every cleric I've ever played has his holy symbol tatooed on his palms or backs of both hands. That way even if I lost one I'd have a spare. :)



Hasta

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Having your Holy Symbols sundered or disarmed is even more fun in that case.:smallamused:

[Leon]

Yes, the 2e version is called Create Holy Symbol and is Level 2 Creation Spell from Tome of Magic. The 3e version can be found in Complete Champion, where it is called Summon Holy Symbol (Cleric 0, Paladin 1), but it only lasts 1 Round per level.

Cool, im looking foward to my book arriving soon and reading up on all these good complete champion things

[The Glyphstone]

Somehow, I just think it's funny that two separate people have accidentally misspelled the topic as "Striped Naked"...I wonder what god would accept a striped pattern as resembling their holy symbol...

[Sir Jason]

The God of Naked Tiger Fetishes?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Every cleric I've ever played has his holy symbol tatooed on his palms or backs of both hands. That way even if I lost one I'd have a spare. :)



Hasta
I agree with this strategy. A holy symbol tattoo should probably do in a pinch.

For the more devoted but less foresightful, giving yourself a knifepoint tattoo on the outer forearm is pretty badass. Just don't try to actually ink it.

Alternatively, some faiths can realistically use acquired weapons or shields for symbols: Thor (Hammer), Vecna (Dagger). In Eberron, there's the Worldly Focus feat for Sovereign Hosters, so you'll never be without one. I'd let the Silver Flame get away with using a torch or something if they thought about it and roleplayed it well. The Blood of Vol, interestingly, choose their own holy symbols with personal meaning. For example, Garrow, the BoV cleric in some of the published adventures, uses a dagger. If the cleric's personal symbol was a dagger, a garnet gem, or a vial of their own blood, those are fairly easy to replace.

[MrNexx]

You should listen to the Christmas Ogre, lest you will have clerics running around using heavy shields as holy symbols!

Mind you, I don't actually object to this, provided their shield is designed to be a holy symbol... and it's going to have to be designed with an integral holy symbol, not just painted (which will chip and disappear in a few fights).

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Mind you, I don't actually object to this, provided their shield is designed to be a holy symbol... and it's going to have to be designed with an integral holy symbol, not just painted (which will chip and disappear in a few fights).

As long as people are not worried about Holy Symbols that cannot be disarmed or sundered and that can be used to Turn Undead with both hands full... :smallcool:

[Arbitrarity]

Having your Holy Symbols sundered or disarmed is even more fun in that case.:smallamused:

Owww... Monk/Kensai/Cleric with Throwing, Returning fists, with tatoo Holy Symbols, which are then disarmed...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Owww... Monk/Kensai/Cleric with Throwing, Returning fists, with tatoo Holy Symbols, which are then disarmed...

If you dislike tattoos you could go with a God that has a fist as a Holy Symbol or a Skull (and enchant your head with Throwing and Returning instead, disarming has never been so much fun).

[MrNexx]

As long as people are not worried about Holy Symbols that cannot be disarmed or sundered and that can be used to Turn Undead with both hands full... :smallcool:

Since I have a tattoo of Thor's hammer on my right arm, and one of Odin's raven's on my back, I tend to agree that tattoos aren't that unreasonable, and from there, it's a short step to a shield.

Makes shield bashes against vampires an effective weapon... I can think of few stronger ways to strongly present a holy symbol.