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whisperwind1
2017-06-05, 11:59 AM
Hi all, so I've been gaming with someone for years and to put it bluntly, he cheats in combat and probably outside of combat as well. This has caused conflict in the past, and I had basically learned to ignore it because confrontation did not work. But we just started a new campaign and he naturally got up to his old tricks. Its probably because its a new game and a part of me hoped it wouldn't happen, but it just ripped open old wounds and almost ruined my evening. Im still mad about it but i don't know what I can do.

Any advice on how to live and game with a cheater?

Koo Rehtorb
2017-06-05, 12:01 PM
Play with better people.

Segev
2017-06-05, 12:10 PM
Are you the GM? Don't invite him to the game.

If you're a fellow player, point it out to the GM. Either publicly or privately.

If you can't reach a satisfactory conclusion, drop out of any game he's in. Refuse to game with him.

Lvl 2 Expert
2017-06-05, 12:15 PM
Have you already tried to talk with him one on one outside of the game? If yes and it didn't help, is the cheating a problem, or is it just him hitting extra crits which you can live with perfectly well? If the latter, you can choose to ignore it. I you don't choose to, or it really is a problem, are you willing to officially unfriend him? If so, subtly check what the other players think, and if they agree you guys should continue without him. If talking didn't help, if it really is a problem and if you want to keep him as a good friend, good luck. Maybe drop out of the game and find another group?

noob
2017-06-05, 12:19 PM
He never said the cheater was not the GM.
If the cheater is the gm it can be problematic(I mean seriously you are allowed when gm to do everything in game(not in real life of course) you want so if you cheat instead of using that power(like saying "the encounter narrative makes so that there is more sense if the villain succeed in fleeing") you are just trying to annoy people).

Honest Tiefling
2017-06-05, 12:47 PM
The problem isn't that he cheats, the problem is that he's a jerk, since he didn't listen to your concerns. Also, he's cheating at a cooperative story-telling game. Don't play with him, and try to socialize with him outside of DnD.

And then form a better, more kick-*** group with people who are not jerks.

whisperwind1
2017-06-05, 01:02 PM
He never said the cheater was not the GM.


Nah he's not the GM, just a fellow player. The sad part is I could just be paranoid and jumping at shadows with him, but i'm not the only player who thinks this. But again, confronting him only led to a huge fight.

Stale Tales
2017-06-05, 01:23 PM
All good games need at least one big fight

Lord Torath
2017-06-05, 01:29 PM
How does he cheat? Dice rolls? Easily fixed. Privately ask the DM to institute a "Declare your roll and get acknowledgement from me before rolling, and roll using a cup into this box or it doesn't count." rule. Doesn't need to specify who it applies to, or the reason behind it.

Other forms of cheating are more difficult (too many feats? Feats keep changing? Your THAC0/BAB is what now?) to catch, but it's not impossible. DM can ask for a copy of each player's character sheet each time they level, and compare to track leveling and catch changes. More work for the DM, though.

Has the guy admitted to cheating in the past, or does he deny it?

whisperwind1
2017-06-05, 02:31 PM
Has the guy admitted to cheating in the past, or does he deny it?

No he's never admitted to it and consistently acts angry when i display exasperation at his over convenient crits

Kalmageddon
2017-06-05, 02:41 PM
Eh, some people are just childish. I have a very similar player in my group, he doesn't cheat most of the times and when he does it's not like he's fudging rolls, more like conveniently declaring what the roll was for after having already rolled. This is the same guy that threw a fit because while their characters were taken prisoners he was summarily executed after heavily disrespecting the Darth Vader-like enemy commander.
The only thing that helps with these kind of people is setting up strict rules from the beginning and for everyone. That way if he complains about the GM asking to repeat a roll he won't be able to feel like he's being picked on.

CharonsHelper
2017-06-05, 02:46 PM
I'll give a +1 to having a table rule that all dice be rolled out in the open and only when your turn rolls around. (This is of course assuming that he isn't super sneaky and has weighted dice.)

Quertus
2017-06-05, 03:02 PM
Nah he's not the GM, just a fellow player. The sad part is I could just be paranoid and jumping at shadows with him, but i'm not the only player who thinks this. But again, confronting him only led to a huge fight.


No he's never admitted to it and consistently acts angry when i display exasperation at his over convenient crits

Well, you worded the thread title as how to be a better you, so let's focus on that.

I'm glad people already brought it up, because a GM cheating is difficult to deal with. This is just a player, no problem.

So what if he happens to get crits at just the right moment? He's not the GM, so it in no way affects your character. I've known people who, rolling the same dice, were just amazingly, predictably lucky or unlucky.

I myself a) only buy dice which trend high; b) have met people who can control the outcome of (unweighted) dice; c) have learned their skills sufficiently to demonstrate to myself that it is possible to intentionally manipulate the outcome of dice.

I further hold that it is possible to subconsciously manipulate the dice, thus explaining the people who just trend lucky or unlucky.

Rather than causing a fight about nothing, you just need to accept that this happens, and be grateful that Mr. Lucky is on your team.

That's the attitude you need to adopt to make the game enjoyable.

Slipperychicken
2017-06-05, 04:15 PM
Don't play with cheaters. Either he stops playing or you do, simple as that. You could find a better group, or even start one yourself.

If I had players bad enough to make me forum-post about it, I'd be on my way out of that group.

Kalmageddon
2017-06-05, 04:57 PM
Don't play with cheaters. Either he stops playing or you do, simple as that. You could find a better group, or even start one yourself.

If I had players bad enough to make me forum-post about it, I'd be on my way out of that group.

That's oversimplifying an often complex situation. Finding people to play with can be very hard, more often than not a group has to make compromises just to have enough people at the table.
Booting people out is an option only when their flaws are so unbearable or disruptive that tolerating or working around them is not an option, but in my experience this requires a truly staggering amount of misbehaviour.
Leaving the group is also an overrated solution, because, as I mentioned before, this can leave one unable to find another. For example, I work a lot, I have night shifts, PM shifts and all kinds of obstacles in the way of my social life. I also have a girlfriend with whom I'd like to be able to spend some time. This leaves me with very little time to dedicate to any other kind of leisure, which means that if I want to be able to indulge in one of my favorite hobbies, that being playing ttrpg, I'd better stick with the only group I've found so far that has a schedule compatible with mine, even if some things are suboptimal.
Doubtlessly many other people are in a similar situation and, consciously or not, are making similar decisions.

KillianHawkeye
2017-06-05, 05:48 PM
That's oversimplifying an often complex situation. Finding people to play with can be very hard, more often than not a group has to make compromises just to have enough people at the table.
Booting people out is an option only when their flaws are so unbearable or disruptive that tolerating or working around them is not an option, but in my experience this requires a truly staggering amount of misbehaviour.
Leaving the group is also an overrated solution, because, as I mentioned before, this can leave one unable to find another. For example, I work a lot, I have night shifts, PM shifts and all kinds of obstacles in the way of my social life. I also have a girlfriend with whom I'd like to be able to spend some time. This leaves me with very little time to dedicate to any other kind of leisure, which means that if I want to be able to indulge in one of my favorite hobbies, that being playing ttrpg, I'd better stick with the only group I've found so far that has a schedule compatible with mine, even if some things are suboptimal.
Doubtlessly many other people are in a similar situation and, consciously or not, are making similar decisions.

Alternatively, there could be another group nearby with non-sucky people that just happens to be perfect for you, and you'd never know because you're too dedicated to staying in a bad situation.

Kalmageddon
2017-06-05, 06:03 PM
Alternatively, there could be another group nearby with non-sucky people that just happens to be perfect for you, and you'd never know because you're too dedicated to staying in a bad situation.
What would prevent me from seeing it before leaving the current one, exactly? A quick look at a few sites and social media, plus a message to the usual suspects is usually enough to get a sense of your local tabletop gaming scene.
And if that's not enough and you would need to put a lot more time and effort into searching, therefore somehow preventing you from staying in your current group AND looking for another one at the same time... well then it's a gamble, isn't it? Stay in a suboptimal but secure situation or risk losing even that for the chance of finding something better.
In this particular case, as long as I'm having enough fun, I'd gladly put up with the compromise and security of my current group, rather than finding myself out of tabletop gaming for God knows how long.
I think this is a respectable and rational position, wouldn't you?

PrismCat21
2017-06-06, 04:12 PM
So just to be clear, you only believe that he's cheating? He's not admitted to it or been caught yet?
It'll change the kind of advice that's offered.

Jay R
2017-06-06, 04:25 PM
If you want more specific advice, we need more specific information. What exactly makes you think he's cheating, how do you think he's doing it, and how often do you think he's doing it?

If you give us exact details, we'll be able to give much better advice.

Aliquid
2017-06-06, 05:15 PM
No he's never admitted to it and consistently acts angry when i display exasperation at his over convenient critsIn my experience... the quicker someone is to anger when accused of cheating/lying, the more likely your accusation is accurate. It is an annoying tactic: quickly turn the situation into an uncomfortable emotional scenario... then people will focus their energy on dealing with the emotions, rather than the actual issue. (some people choose to break down crying instead of getting mad. Same process otherwise)

Calthropstu
2017-06-06, 05:45 PM
All good games need at least one big fight

Aren't there specifically rules for fighting in D&D? Just saying...