Mutants and masterminds 3e: Maximum circumstance bonus? Stacking Multi/team attack.

[Zjordan85]

Real simple scenario, 3 mooks do a team attack with machine pistols, which have multi attack. What is the overall combined effect?
Is this further modified if they use Accurate Attack?
Do circumstance bonuses stack and is there a maximum of they do?

Thanks in advance

[noob]

I believe it is in "Older D&D/AD&D and Other Systems" section that you should post this thread since Mutants and masterminds 3e is not d&d3.X.
I would assume that unless there is a rule saying that modifiers do or do not stacks you can not know.
By reading the rule it do not seems to stack beyond 5.
But is multiattack a circumstance bonus?



To use a Multiattack against a single target, make your attack check normally. If successful, increase the attack’s resistance check DC by +2 for two degrees of success, and +5 for three or more. This circumstance bonus does not count against power level limits.

It would probably be one if I was not an insane cultist of evil misinterpretation of rules.
Most people will say that it is a circumstance bonus.




Some circumstances make checks easier or harder, resulting in a bonus or penalty to the check. Characters in a favorable situation are said to have a circumstance bonus for the check, while those in a disadvantageous situation are said to be have a circumstance penalty.

As a general rule, apply a modifier of plus or minus 2 if the character is at a minor bonus or minor penalty, and a modifier of plus or minus 5 if the character is at a major bonus or major penalty for the check:

+/-2 for bonus/penalty

+/-5 for major bonus/penalty

Seems to suggest you can only get one circumstance modifier to a given throw since it gives a single boost or malus depending on situation.




When you make an attack, you can take a penalty of up to –2 on the effect modifier of the attack and add the same number (up to +2) to your attack bonus. Your effect modifier cannot be reduced below +0 and your attack bonus cannot more than double in this way. The changes are declared before you make the attack check and last until the start of your next turn.
it does not seems to be a circumstance bonus but no rules says that any bonus stacks or do not stacks.

But here team attack probably apply to the attack throw and multiattack apply to the save difficulty so it is not a story of them stacking.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Two mooks make team checks for the third. I believe you count up the total degrees of success they score, so if both only get one degree the leader only gets a +2 bonus, not +4, but either way, the total bonus is explicitly capped at +5 regardless of how many people help. The leader would then roll their Multiattack effect normally, targetting one person and dealing extra damage if they hit by a lot, or taking a penalty to shoot at multiple people.

Accurate attack could continue to boost their to-hit, at the cost of reducing their damage. It's not technically a circumstance bonus, I don't think, but it doesn't matter, becuase power level limits are conserved.

I believe that circumstance bonuses all stack indefinitely, with no limit-- they're outside the normal PL limits, and there's no modifier stacking rules like there are in D&D.

[noob]

Two mooks make team checks for the third. I believe you count up the total degrees of success they score, so if both only get one degree the leader only gets a +2 bonus, not +4, but either way, the total bonus is explicitly capped at +5 regardless of how many people help. The leader would then roll their Multiattack effect normally, targetting one person and dealing extra damage if they hit by a lot, or taking a penalty to shoot at multiple people.

Accurate attack could continue to boost their to-hit, at the cost of reducing their damage. It's not technically a circumstance bonus, I don't think, but it doesn't matter, becuase power level limits are conserved.

I believe that circumstance bonuses all stack indefinitely, with no limit-- they're outside the normal PL limits, and there's no modifier stacking rules like there are in D&D.

Even if circumstance bonuses did not stack the multiattack apply to a different throw from the one of the team attack.

[Zjordan85]

So realistically, you apply the circumstance bonus of the team check to the effect rank AND the bonus from multiattack to the resistance dc, even though that amounts to the same thing. With the small difference that increasing the effect rank aids in bypassing impervious toughness.

[Grod_The_Giant]

So realistically, you apply the circumstance bonus of the team check to the effect rank AND the bonus from multiattack to the resistance dc, even though that amounts to the same thing. With the small difference that increasing the effect rank aids in bypassing impervious toughness.
Correct; you could have both. It's usually not worth it, because M&M is swingy enough that the second chance at a flubbed Toughness roll is more valuable, but it's a nice tactic for minions-- I sometimes simplify and have groups of minions, with one leader and everyone else providing +1 attack or damage.