Deep Space 9 economics question - Spoilers

[gooddragon1]

In episode 4x16 of DS9 (Bar Association) (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Bar_Association_(episode)), Leeta (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Leeta) says that she can't afford the 1/3 pay cut that Quark (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Quark) is implementing. Don't they all have free access to replicators on DS9? If they do, what exactly does she mean by that?

[JadedDM]

The economics of Star Trek is pretty messy and because of different writers over the years, there's a lot of contradiction.

It's possible that the replicators are free for members of the Federation, which Leeta is not. That seems kind of a jerk move on the Federation's part, if true, but I don't know. I'm just speculating.

It's also possible that food isn't the issue, but there is something else Leeta needs that requires latinum. Like living space, for instance. She may pay some kind of rent to stay on the station; again, I'm not sure. Just speculating.

[Blackhawk748]

I would assume that the replicators are food replicators, so she'd have to buy everything else, including rent.

I is true that ST economics dont make a ton of sense, but that is mostly because they dont go into it in any detail.

[gooddragon1]

I would assume that the replicators are food replicators, so she'd have to buy everything else, including rent.

I is true that ST economics dont make a ton of sense, but that is mostly because they dont go into it in any detail.

Well there goes any hope of daydreaming about ds9 living... eh probably would've gotten destroyed eventually.

[Silfir]

I think the fact you can't replicate living space is a likely explanation, definitely. (I think replicators give access to any object within a certain size - aside from food, clothing for instance shouldn't be a problem, though the selection of styles may be limited.) Then there's the possibility she isn't just taking care of herself; she might be sending most of what she earns from Quark to relatives in need off the station. I don't think Bajor is post-scarcity just yet, even if it has access to at least some degree of Federation tech.

Federation economics as a larger topic always raise questions. I think what it boils down to is that the Federation will provide anything that its citizens want, for as long as its citizens' wants are reasonable - so any people who have needs that the Federation in its great wisdom considers unreasonable have no choice but to find markets that will satisfy those needs, and source currency that those markets consider valid.

[tomandtish]

While the station is run by the Federation, it is owned by Bajor. Most of the merchants on it (esp. those we see like Quark and Garek) are actually NOT Federation members.Most other cultures still use a cash economy, and Ferengi are notorious for it.

IIRC, there's even an episode where you discover that Quark actually pays for the energy for the replicators HE has in his bar, and at one point he's caught "mooching" off of Federation replicators.

[Kitten Champion]

The problem with making the economy fit their technology-level logically is the relatability-factor of the plot would be lost. That's a cheap meta-answer, but most Trek-staple tech exists to make the production of television easier while still evoking the far-future SF-feel the setting is going for rather than creating a world in which the logical consequences of those technologies existing are explored.

This is particularly significant for DS9 because so much of the early series is about dealing with scarcity. Bajor being decimated by the occupation and the crippling effect it had on their economy and infrastructure fuels various conflicts and mirrors the emotional and spiritual scars of the Bajoran (and occasionally Cardassian) characters. The Federation contingent being out of their element in a station which barely functions with limited manpower and Star Fleet tech, creates the frontier-feeling of the show's setting and allows for conflict you couldn't normally find on TNG. Then you have the Ferengi-centered plots with a variety of characters motivated by the pursuit of wealth and the conflicts those drive.

The wide availability of the sorts of canon technologies prevalent in the Trek universe could very well make these sorts of resource limitations a moot point for all involved - as it is on the Enterprise - or at least dramatically diminish them in consequence of their existence. However, that's not why the show exists.

[Seppl]

The Federation probably does not give out free goods to everyone on DS9. They are too much aware of the societal damage they would most probably cause by doing so.

Bajor, after the occupation, is already a struggling society that has to re-organize itself. Waltzing in and giving everybody everywhere anything they need would have two major effects:

Any socioeconomic bonds are shattered overnight. This may lead to major unrest in a society that is already struggling and has no previous experience with post-scarcity economics.
Bajor is now completely dependent on Federation technology. The moment the Federation pulls out of a replicator-dependent Bajor, everyone on Bajor would starve, because there are no longer any independent Bajoran farms or industry, as those became obsolete the moment replicators were introduced. Therefore, pulling out of Bajor would no longer be an option for the Federation and not joining the Federation would no longer be an option for Bajor.


The Federation and Bajor would both be aware of this and would both be strongly opposed to any of these consequences. Therefore it stands to reason that Federation help would be given (and taken!) with great care. Some industrial replicators to jump-start the economy by supplying sparse resources. Some replicators so that the poor will not starve on the streets. But certainly not a replicator for every household and not replacing all factories with replicators.

[Cikomyr]

I think the Federation is already aware of some of the potential societal damage if people were shut in and only used replicators. I think the society encourage people to use meals as excuse to socialise, get out, go to restaurants.

Just because you can replicate anything you want at home doesnt mean its a healthy lifestyle.

[Gnoman]

I find that the Star Trek economy works way better if you just assume that replicators are absurdly expensive to operate. This has some canon support, and fixes a lot of their potential for disruption. On a starship the cost is largely negated by not needing to carry foodstuffs compatible with a very diverse multispecies crew, and developed worlds like Earth just subsidize the cost due to the many social benefits, but less wealthy worlds can't do that.

[Cikomyr]

I can see that. I mean, even if its merely a matter convertor (instead of an energy-to-matter creator), it will require absurd amount of energy to operate.

On a starship that has to power shields and phasers, this is still small change during non-combat situation. But in a home? Nahhh.. grow your food

[Chen]

I can see that. I mean, even if its merely a matter convertor (instead of an energy-to-matter creator), it will require absurd amount of energy to operate.

Replicators are in fact just matter converters. There's bulk stock that gets used to "create" things. Seems like power would make it more of a problem on starships (with limited antimatter stores) compared to a planet where you could have hundreds of fusion plants producing ridiculous amounts of power.

[FreddyNoNose]

In episode 4x16 of DS9 (Bar Association) (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Bar_Association_(episode)), Leeta (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Leeta) says that she can't afford the 1/3 pay cut that Quark (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Quark) is implementing. Don't they all have free access to replicators on DS9? If they do, what exactly does she mean by that?

It is a TV Show not a simulation. Or as people I know in Hollywood tell me "they are telling a story". It is as simple as that.

If you are looking to fix problems, how about looking at fixing problems in the real world and not in imaginary ones...

[Rogar Demonblud]

Because fixing the imaginary ones gives us an idea on how to fix a real one?

[gooddragon1]

It is a TV Show not a simulation. Or as people I know in Hollywood tell me "they are telling a story". It is as simple as that.

If you are looking to fix problems, how about looking at fixing problems in the real world and not in imaginary ones...

If I were looking to fix the problem, I'd have posted in Mad Science and Grumpy Technology forum or a more serious forum. No need to be harsh.

[Darth Ultron]

In episode 4x16 of DS9 (Bar Association) (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Bar_Association_(episode)), Leeta (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Leeta) says that she can't afford the 1/3 pay cut that Quark (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Quark) is implementing. Don't they all have free access to replicators on DS9? If they do, what exactly does she mean by that?

No.

All members of the Federation have free access to replicators. Note that DS9 is owned by Bajor and Bajor is not part of the Federation. Bajor, as well as nearly the entire galaxy still uses money and has ''20th century like economies''.

Though, Star Trek has kept the whole ''everything is free and there is no money'' bit very vague. Like ''it happens and it works and it's awesome.....now watch this show about aliens and actions and phasers.''

So Leeta, as a Bajorin, still needs and uses money, exactly like a ''20th century'' person. Her quarters on the station and the replicator there are owned by the government of Bajor. She pays rent and has to pay for use of the replicator.

And even the Federation folks don't have ''free unrestricted access'' to replicators. They have an allowance. And this is even more true on DS9 as the Federation also pays rent and usage fees to Bajor, of a sort.

And poor Leeta....working for Quark is a nightmare.

[gomipile]

It is a TV Show not a simulation. Or as people I know in Hollywood tell me "they are telling a story". It is as simple as that.

If you are looking to fix problems, how about looking at fixing problems in the real world and not in imaginary ones...

Because this is the Media forum, not the "real world problems" forum.

[Razade]

It is a TV Show not a simulation. Or as people I know in Hollywood tell me "they are telling a story". It is as simple as that.

If you are looking to fix problems, how about looking at fixing problems in the real world and not in imaginary ones...

We can do both at the same time.