Tripping huge targets

[Braininthejar2]

My campaign requires a human monk (fluffwise only: in reality he will be some kind of a martial) epic NPC.

I want his introductory scene to involve him throwing a glabrezu through a wall. Problem is, all the throw related techiques require a trip, and that can only be executed against targets up to one size bigger.

So, short of temporarily increasing his size, what can I do to make it work?

[CozJa]

The Broken Fist Mastery I from Dragon Magazine #309 may be what you're looking for... it has lots of prerequisites, but almost none of them is a bad choice. Also, remember the presence of the "X throw" line of Setting Sun maneuvers for Swordsages.

[Braininthejar2]

So, everything except dirty fighting is useful?

Yes, I know the setting sun throws - I was specifically looking at ballista throw as something that could put the target through a wall. But that required a trip attempt, and that still has to be legal.

[Hackulator]

My campaign requires a human monk (fluffwise only: in reality he will be some kind of a martial) epic NPC.

I want his introductory scene to involve him throwing a glabrezu through a wall. Problem is, all the throw related techiques require a trip, and that can only be executed against targets up to one size bigger.

So, short of temporarily increasing his size, what can I do to make it work?

You're the DM. Create a custom feat that lets him do that. Only let PCs learn it if he decides to train them in it. Remember Occam's Razor.

[Waker]

A possible solution would be the Pebble Underfoot feat in Dragon Compendium. It gives you a +4 bonus on opposed trip checks against enemies who are at least two size categories larger than you. It doesn't specifically say anything about removing the limitation that Trip can't be used against targets larger than one size category, so by RAW it doesn't work. The RAI might be be to remove the limit.

[DrMotives]

You could also see about a custom magic item that grants a goliath's powerful build. Powerful build specifically calls out tripping as something it enhances by a size category.

[Thurbane]

Battle Jump feat:


You are treated as one size category larger than normal if you try to trip your opponent with the battle jump.

Also, Broken Fist Mastery, as already mentioned.

Some relevant links:

The Tripping Handbook - Stay down (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8774.0)

[3.X] Increasing Size, Effective Size, Unarmed Damage, Reach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127732)

[Deophaun]

You're the DM. Create a custom feat that lets him do that. Only let PCs learn it if he decides to train them in it. Remember Occam's Razor.
Better idea: you're the DM and the rule is stupid. Get rid of it for everyone.

[Braininthejar2]

Now that the original question seems answered, what tricks can I use to make him more tanky? When it's time for him to reveal himself as a boss, I want him to outlast his mooks even if the party focuses him.

What are the best ways of avoiding/mitigating damage for martial adepts?

[noob]

Now that the original question seems answered, what tricks can I use to make him more tanky? When it's time for him to reveal himself as a boss, I want him to outlast his mooks even if the party focuses him.

What are the best ways of avoiding/mitigating damage for martial adepts?

Fusing with an ice assasin(or simulacrum) of an aleax of yourself?
You just need one scroll and two power stones and there you go:eternal damage mitigation.

[Braininthejar2]

I'm not quite sure it works... Where would he get an aleax to cast ice assassin on?

Anything more relevant to swordsage, warblade, or crusader? (yes, I know, by the time you hit epic, you have indirect access to anything - but I'd like to keep to the theme)

[Eldariel]

Well, first of all, Exceptional and Infinite Deflection epic feats. Awesome. Also Stance of Alacrity + Master of the Nine Counterstance + Double Stance + Immortal Fortitude. Use a counter (One with Shadow, Wall of Blades vs. Touch attacks and such, save boosters, reroll, etc.), switch out of Stance of Alacrity, switch back, extra action. Buff Fort, reapply Immortal Fortitude as needed. Nice. Also, Aura of Perfect Order reapplied is great. Don't forget Moment of Prescience, White Raven Tactics, Moment of Alacrity nor the no-save disables. The usual. Of course, Evasion and Mettle are musts. I recommend a Legacy-weapon such as gauntlet with Heal, Mind Blank, Cunning, Contingency & co. Some way to fly non-magically (Feathered Wings Graft is nice). Lots of mobility and such maneuvers. Perhaps War Master's Charge. Pounce + Charge (Bounding Assault (DM4) is the best) + Leading the Attack is nice.

Second, simple Jotunbrud makes you count as Large for maneuvers. Allows you to Trip Huges. Though I never counted the limitation for Throws as the maneuver forces the check. YMMV.

[Braininthejar2]

That's the kind of advice I've been waiting for

Thank you :smallbiggrin:

[Braininthejar2]

So, if I wanted to try to put all of these advice into one character, and aimed for something like level 27, it would be something like...

Monk4
Crusader 13
Swordsage 5
Master of Nine 5

This way I get both mettle and evasion

For a human, that's 11 feats, plus improved unarmed strike, deflect arrows and stunning fist gained from monk

- dodge
- combat reflexes
- adaptive style
- blind fight
- improved initiative
- dirty fighting
- combat expertise
- improved trip
- broken fist mastery
- exceptional deflection
- infinite deflection

Am I doing it about right?

[Eldariel]

Monk 2 more than suffices. You could take Feat Rogue 2 for skills and feats. Trade second evasion for Spell Reflection. You definitely want Extra Granted Maneuver since you primarily rely on Crusader maneuvers.

I'd prefer Jotunbrud over BFM if you rule for it to also affect whom you can affect as that saves you a feat in Dirty Fighting and give you general bonuses to all maneuvers. Might want to fit Imperious Command + Fearso.e Armor Bracelets + Never Outnumbered Skill Trick or such. Or you could go for Broken Fist Mastery 2 which is more or less autowin on all Trip checks.

Looks good tho. Maneuver picks are key.

[CozJa]

I originally suggested Broken Fist Mastery over Jotunbrud exactly because the former works clearly for what you need, while the latter not, since it only says that helps you when you have to calculate modifiers, and not that lets you do something as if you were large. But, as a DM, I suppose you can easily fix it and let it work as you like.

[Braininthejar2]

I actually have very little experience with crusaders. If extra granted maneuver is essential...

I usually try to make the enemies in my games to be as rules-legal as the player characters. It's a game after all.

But the guy in question is a bhaalspawn, so I can cheat a little, and not feel bad about it. I guess I could give him virtual "powerful build" as part of his bhaalspawn powers, and then ditch dirty fighting and BFM for extra granted maneuver and superior unarmed strike.

[Eldariel]

Extra Granted Maneuver increases your control over which maneuvers you have and decreases your recharge time. It's huge. And yeah, work on the levels. More initiator and feat-granting levels. UASS over SS if you allow it. Ex-Barbarian for Pounce is not worthless either. And ya, Monk 2/X 2 for mor feats: the build is starved.