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DontEvenAsk
2017-06-06, 11:49 AM
So while I was working on adapting Tome of Battle material to my homebrew setting, I came across this (http://rpgbot.net/dnd35/characters/disciplines.php) little gem, and it was abruptly brought to my attention that most of the discipline-specific feats in ToB are pretty lackluster. And that's sad, so I decided to do something about it, in the hopes that my unworthy efforts would be reformed into something actually usable by y'all esteemed forum PEACHers and then I could stick the feats in my setting bible.

Some things to note:

My setting isn't mechanically E6, but finding anyone above level 8 or so is quite the job of work, and I run on the assumption that once you reach level 6, you've crossed into the domain of myth (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2). Not that I think that's a bad thing, since D&D is essentially myths with dice.
Tier 1 classes don't generally appear in this setting except as creatures/persons of deliberately mythic power, and Tier 2 classes are generally nerfed down to Tier 3 if possible. I'm still working on restrictions for those Tier 1 classes whose concepts are just too cool to pass up (Artificer, for instance) - I might post those ideas sometime, in fact - but in general, assume nobody's Tier 1.
Classes that are Tier 5 or below are boosted - either I use homebrew fixes or I gestalt the more niche classes with other classes that go well together. For instance, Project Heretica's Paladin (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Paladin,_Project_Heretica_(3.5e_Class)) and Jiriku's Remixed Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?150122-3-5-The-Monk-Remixed), as well as combining the Dragonfire Adept and the Dragon Shaman, the Dragonlance Mariner and the Complete Warrior Swashbuckler, etc, etc. That Paladin one is actually pretty important because there's a Paladin multiclassing feat and I forgot to mention I wasn't thinking of core Paladin the first time around. So. Using a Paladin remix over here.
Stone Dragon doesn't exist. (It's just cruddy. Sorry, Mountain Hammer users.) is no longer part of the main Nine Swords lineup, and is using a homebrew fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22079984&postcount=10) (thanks GideonFalcon). While we're on that subject, here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22066664&postcount=6) a full list of all the homebrew disciplines and skill changes being applied, if that helps anyone. Plus a lot of other crap you can feel free to ignore. (It never made sense to me that there'd be only nine disciplines in the whole world.)
However, not all of those disciplines are going to get feat sets. The big nine of the Temple of Nine Swords, as the most formally accepted styles, get feats. I'd ideally like to reach the point where all nine of the Temple disciplines have two or three feats. (Super duper ideally I'd like them to all have the same number, but we'll see how that goes.)


Divine Spirit now uses divine spell slots rather than smite attempts, scales with level, can be applied to allies, and heals more - thanks to Seerow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22069005&postcount=2).
Divine Spirit hit point formula now takes into account spell slot level and is no longer based on Charisma, and the feat requirements are back to specifying Smite - thanks to Morphic tide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22069957&postcount=6).
First up: Desert Wind. I made the flat bonuses given by Desert Fire and Desert Wind Dodge scale by level. I also noticed the fire resistance problem, so I threw together a quick and messy fix for that based on the Energy Substitution feat. I figured that way there'd be some versatility - a Desert Wind user with Desert Adaptation can choose either fire damage or their other energy type, rather than being stuck with one or the other.

Desert Wind Dodge
Your Desert Wind training has prepared you for evasive combat, and you run circles around your opponents.
Prerequisite: Dex 13, one Desert Wind maneuver.
Benefit: If you move at least 10 feet from your initial position in a turn, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC per two initiator levels and deal an equal amount of extra fire damage with any attack you make with a Desert Wind associated weapon. This benefit lasts until the start of your next turn.

Desert Fire
As a Desert Wind initiate, you fight like a moving flame, and through your understanding of the discipline you are able to channel the spiritual flame of the desert into your strikes.
Prerequisite: One Desert Wind strike.
Benefit: If you move at least 10 feet from your initial position in a turn before using a Desert Wind strike in the same round, that strike deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage per 2 initiator levels.

Desert Adaptation
You are so familiar with the process of channeling power into Desert Wind maneuvers that you can apply it to nearly any form of elemental power.
Prerequisite: Martial Lore 5 ranks, Desert Fire OR Desert Wind Dodge.
Benefit: Choose one type of energy other than fire (acid, cold, or electricity). You can then modify any Desert Wind maneuver with the fire descriptor to use your chosen type of energy instead. An energy substituted maneuver is treated as two maneuvers for the purpose of readying daily maneuvers. The maneuver's descriptor changes to the new energy type - for example, a burning brand maneuver using electricity is a boost [electricity].

I gave both of these a teamwork aspect and a numerical boost, and made Divine Spirit about spell slots rather than turn attempts.

Devoted Bulwark
Your power as a Devoted Spirit initiate grows in the face of adversity, as the bite of enemy blades reminds you why you fight and your resilience inspires your comrades to follow suit.
Prerequisite: One Devoted Spirit maneuver.
Benefit: If an enemy deals damage to you with a melee attack, you and your allies gain a morale bonus to AC equal to your Charisma bonus until the end of your next turn.

Divine Spirit
Your dedication to your cause has allowed your spirit to transcend mortal impediments, giving you the power to heal your own wounds and return to battle through only the force of your faith.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 1st-level divine spells, Smite class feature, one Devoted Spirit stance.
Benefit: While in a Devoted Spirit stance, you can expend a divine spell slot as an immediate action to heal yourself or an ally within 30 feet of your location a number of hit points equal to (1d8+initiator level)*the level of the spell slot (0-level spell slots are considered to have a value of 1 for this purpose).

Unnerving Calm is no longer solely applicable to that one weak gimmick nobody uses. (I mean, I think the duel of wills mechanic is really cool and I wish it were more widely used, but it's still not exactly powerful enough to warrant a whole feat.)

Unnerving Calm
You present an uncanny, unwavering face to the world, striking fear into the hearts of your enemies.
Prerequisite: Concentration 1 rank, one Diamond Mind strike.
Benefit: Whenever you would make an Intimidate check, you may make a Concentration check instead. You gain a +4 bonus on skill checks made to resolve a duel of wills.

Iron Heart is just so completely not about boosting allies that Ironheart Aura just seems... why? So I cut it. However, I've gotten at least two ideas (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22079984&postcount=10) (thanks Gideon Falcon) on what to base an Iron Heart feat on, and I snuck some of Ironheart Aura's effect into White Raven Defense (see below). Feat brew pending.


The discipline that replaces Stone Dragon as one of the original Nine Disciplines in this setting is the esteemed Demented One's Scarlet Bravura (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?101008-Just-Who-The-Hell-Do-You-Think-We-Are!-Discipline). I quite like the Stone Power feat, so I tweaked it to go with Scarlet Bravura. Now it's about steeling yourself to take hits for the team - think the guy in every action movie who jumps in with a wild strike because he's actually just trying to be a meat shield. This feat is for that guy.

Taking the Blow
The principles of the Scarlet Bravura discipline teach you to gather your resolve in preparation for self-sacrifice.
Prerequisite: Str 13, one Scarlet Bravura maneuver.
Benefit: When you use an attack action or a full attack action, or you initiate a Scarlet Bravura strike in melee combat, you can take a penalty of as much as -5 on your attack rolls. This number cannot exceed your base attack bonus. You gain temporary hit points equal to twice the number that you subtract from your attack rolls (to a maximum of +10). These temporary hit points last until the beginning of your next turn.
Special: Taking the Blow can be used in place of Power Attack to qualify for feats, prestige classes, and other special abilities. You can take both this feat and Power Attack.
Falling Sun Attack just boosts the wrong things, really. Before, it boosted save DCs, and as far as I know literally one Setting Sun maneuver even grants a save. Now, it boosts melee touch attacks, making the Mighty Throw line just a little bit more awesome. As if picking a dude up and throwing him wasn't awesome already.

Falling Sun Attack
Your Setting Sun training allows you to intuitively discern key pressure and leverage points that afford you a valuable advantage in battle.
Prerequisite: Stunning Fist, one Setting Sun strike.
Benefit: You can declare any Setting Sun strike delivered with an unarmed strike to be a stunning attack. In addition, add 2 to the save DC of your Stunning Fist attacks and on melee touch attacks to use Setting Sun maneuvers.

Shadow Blade is fine - great, in fact - but its little sister Shadow Trickster... that took some thought. I decided to gear it towards Swordsage/Shadowcaster or Swordsage/Beguiler. (The Shadowcaster is noted as qualified for "Caster level X" prerequisites as long as the type of caster level isn't specified, so it checks out.) It's now off-brand Sneak Attack. I was concerned that that might be too powerful, but then, Sneak Attack sure isn't enough to make the Rogue Tier 3, so(!)

Shadow Blade
As given on page 32 of Tome of Battle.

Shadow Trickster
Your mastery of the Shadow Hand discipline lends you insight into the spiritual properties of shadow that you have learned to apply to your magic.
Prerequisite: Caster level 1st, one Shadow Hand strike.
Benefit: While you are in a Shadow Hand stance, the save DC for any illusion spell you cast or mystery you initiate increases by 2. The bonus you gain from flanking an opponent increases by 1 per two initiator levels, and you gain this bonus on damage rolls against flanked opponents as well as attack and damage rolls against flat-footed opponents.

Tiger Blooded now scales with level. I actually think I know someone who has this feat! :smalltongue:

Tiger Blooded
The Tiger Claw discipline gives initiates the raw strength and ferocity to dominate their territory by pushing foes across the battlefield.
Prerequisite: Ability to rage, shift, or wild shape; one Tiger Claw maneuver.
Benefit: While you are in a rage, shifted, or wild shaped into animal form, you can attempt to knock back a creature of your size category or smaller that you hit with a Tiger Claw strike a distance of 5 feet per character level unless it succeeds on a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your Str modifier). This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

So here's a puzzle for you. That thing I linked, the RPGbot page? Under Ironheart Aura, it says, "Giving your allies bonuses to saves is nice, but White Raven is much better at defending adjacent allies." Then, under White Raven Defense, it says, "AC bonuses are always nice, but you won't spend a lot of time in combat standing adjacent to allies." Like, what? How does that figure? Song of the White Raven is fine, White Raven Defense is just... well, I decided to make it a line-of-sight thing rather than an adjacency thing, and I added the Ironheart Aura just a little bit, so hopefully that'll patch it up. Otherwise: whaaaa? :smallconfused: (Also, note that it says "bonus" and not "morale bonus" so it's technically untyped - probably unintentional in RAW, but entirely intentional on my part because White Raven uses a lot of morale bonuses and you want your goodies to stack.)

Song of the White Raven
As given on page 32 of Tome of Battle.

White Raven Defense
The ways of the White Raven discipline have taught you to live as an example to your comrades and take heart in the knowledge that allies are close at hand.
Prerequisite: One White Raven stance.
Benefit: When you are in a White Raven stance and have line of sight to at least one ally, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and all saves. Furthermore, when you are wielding one of the White Raven discipline's preferred weapons, each ally who has line of sight to you also gains these bonuses. This does not apply when you are flat-footed, but it does apply when your allies are, so long as you aren't.

Thoughts? Questions? Comments? Concerns? On most of these I actually have a niggling concern that they're either too strong or too weak...

Seerow
2017-06-06, 12:05 PM
Divine Spirit
Your dedication to your cause has allowed your spirit to transcend mortal impediments, allowing you to heal your own wounds and return to battle through only the force of your faith.
Prerequisite: Ability to smite enemies as per class feature, one Devoted Spirit stance.
Benefit: While in a Devoted Spirit stance, you can expend a daily use of your smite ability as an immediate action to heal yourself a number of hit points equal to 1d6+Charisma modifier (minimum 1 point).

Sorry to not dig into more at the moment, but this stuck out like a sore thumb as garbage literally nobody would take.

You have to spend smite attempts (a super limited daily resource) to restore literally meaningless amounts of hit points. And you even charge an action for it? Like even a SAD Cha based Paladin is looking at trading +12 to hit and +20 to damage for regain 1d6+12 hp. At the very least I would bump this up to 1d6 per 2 initiator levels, and allow it to be used on an ally within 30-60ft as well as self. Even then it probably still would never be used, but at least it might be considered.

DontEvenAsk
2017-06-06, 12:14 PM
Sorry to not dig into more at the moment, but this stuck out like a sore thumb as garbage literally nobody would take.

You have to spend smite attempts (a super limited daily resource) to restore literally meaningless amounts of hit points. And you even charge an action for it? Like even a SAD Cha based Paladin is looking at trading +12 to hit and +20 to damage for regain 1d6+12 hp. At the very least I would bump this up to 1d6 per 2 initiator levels, and allow it to be used on an ally within 30-60ft as well as self. Even then it probably still would never be used, but at least it might be considered.

See, this is why I posted these. :smallbiggrin: I knew I'd messed up at least one of them super big time, I just wasn't sure which one. Thank you! Editing now.

Morphic tide
2017-06-06, 03:24 PM
See, this is why I posted these. :smallbiggrin: I knew I'd messed up at least one of them super big time, I just wasn't sure which one. Thank you! Editing now.

It's still quite weird. It doesn't scale with the slot used. The Initiator level scaling is wonky, and makes it so that the slot not effecting the amount of healing leads to getting 7d8+7*Cha healing with a single 0th level slot is easy. In e6, you can still get 2d8+2*Cha for any slot, which is on par with a 2nd level spell.

I understand why the Initiator level scaling is there, but I think the better option is to have IL take the place of CL and have the multiplicative scaling come from slots. This makes it so that a 2nd level slot gives 2d8+2*IL, so it's still worth using a feat and somewhat encourages dipping from ToB instead of into ToB, like the vast majority of ToB related things do.

DontEvenAsk
2017-06-06, 04:01 PM
It's still quite weird. It doesn't scale with the slot used. The Initiator level scaling is wonky, and makes it so that the slot not effecting the amount of healing leads to getting 7d8+7*Cha healing with a single 0th level slot is easy. In e6, you can still get 2d8+2*Cha for any slot, which is on par with a 2nd level spell.

I understand why the Initiator level scaling is there, but I think the better option is to have IL take the place of CL and have the multiplicative scaling come from slots. This makes it so that a 2nd level slot gives 2d8+2*IL, so it's still worth using a feat and somewhat encourages dipping from ToB instead of into ToB, like the vast majority of ToB related things do.

Multiplicative scaling coming from spell slots is such a better idea than what I was doing I can't even brain. So, lemme parse that formula... 1d8 per spell slot level + 2 per Initiator Level? Is that right? Wait. Where did the Charisma go? I read that wrong.

Help? :smallredface:

Morphic tide
2017-06-06, 04:48 PM
Multiplicative scaling coming from spell slots is such a better idea than what I was doing I can't even brain. So, lemme parse that formula... 1d8 per spell slot level + 2 per Initiator Level? Is that right? Wait. Where did the Charisma go? I read that wrong.

Help? :smallredface:

The setup I gave is (1d8+IL)*slot level, and doesn't include Charisma to encourage dips from Crusader into a Divine caster. Feel free to change it as you wish, but I think it needs to be significantly better than a Cure spell from that slot by a full caster to be worth the feat. A feat is a big deal, after all. My problem with your initial version is the silliness with having the slot be irrelevant to the healing.

DontEvenAsk
2017-06-06, 07:17 PM
The setup I gave is (1d8+IL)*slot level, and doesn't include Charisma to encourage dips from Crusader into a Divine caster. Feel free to change it as you wish, but I think it needs to be significantly better than a Cure spell from that slot by a full caster to be worth the feat. A feat is a big deal, after all. My problem with your initial version is the silliness with having the slot be irrelevant to the healing.

It's not intended for full casters, but the slot being irrelevant is, I concur, entirely silly, and I am also silly. I shall get around to changing it.

Morphic tide
2017-06-06, 07:22 PM
It's not intended for full casters, but the slot being irrelevant is, I concur, entirely silly, and I am also silly. I shall get around to changing it.

The reason I mention full caster is just the caster level. Paladins, which is what the feat is obviously intended for, get half CL progression, so their Cure spells have half the CL a full caster of the same level would have.

DontEvenAsk
2017-06-09, 12:47 PM
Check the first post - I edited in some important info about classes that I really should've put there in the first place but sadly forgot. The long and short of it is, I'm assuming a particular Paladin fix that, while not a full caster, does get a better casting progression than the core Paladin does. Mea maxima culpa for not making this clear, and my apologies.

Edit: Divine Spirit is now updated. Sorry for the delay.

Gideon Falcon
2017-06-09, 08:23 PM
There's actually a really good Stone Dragon fix here, (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b4T_SzUloCtGUdBnUwy6tpoKtZf43OZ5BFef5p44DO4/edit) which might be a bit more spiritually in line with its original purpose than Falling Mountain.

As far as the feats, I like them so far. A lot of them resolve the issue that most feats give a +1 or +2 bonus that really never means much of anything after the first few levels- some give such a bonus, but give it in a much more universal way, because seriously, its a +1.

For Iron Heart, perhaps give a bonus based on having low health or on being surrounded- Iron Heart is focused on determination and crowd control, with its two most iconic maneuvers of Iron Heart Surge and Adamantine Hurricane.

DontEvenAsk
2017-06-10, 12:14 PM
There's actually a really good Stone Dragon fix here, (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b4T_SzUloCtGUdBnUwy6tpoKtZf43OZ5BFef5p44DO4/edit) which might be a bit more spiritually in line with its original purpose than Falling Mountain.

As far as the feats, I like them so far. A lot of them resolve the issue that most feats give a +1 or +2 bonus that really never means much of anything after the first few levels- some give such a bonus, but give it in a much more universal way, because seriously, its a +1.

For Iron Heart, perhaps give a bonus based on having low health or on being surrounded- Iron Heart is focused on determination and crowd control, with its two most iconic maneuvers of Iron Heart Surge and Adamantine Hurricane.

I mean, part of why I removed Stone Dragon (other than its being weak) was because I needed space for Scarlet Bravura on the big lineup of Nine Swords. The writeup for Scarlet Bravura says that the discipline was excluded before the founding of the Temple, but I didn't really like the "a Rakshasa did it" handwave explanation for the fall of the Temple into infighting. So I thought it'd be more naturalistic for there to be an actual dispute about the disciplines, and Scarlet Bravura versus White Raven fit the bill. But then I realized that I'd have to add Scarlet Bravura to the lineup, and I mean, the splatbook is called the Book of Nine Swords.

Another part was because I'd already included a homebrew discipline (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=145.0) that actually involved dragons, and I didn't want there to be any confusion.

Another part was because I didn't want more than two disciplines keyed off the same skill, and there are a lot of disciplines keyed off of Balance.

That fix looks pretty cool, though. I might sneak it in somewhere - Stone Elephant, perhaps, in honor of the whole applied-force thing - and key it off a different skill. (Iaijutsu Focus, maybe.)

Yeah, fixing the scaling problems was a major design goal. I basically took my trusty Plus One Per Two Initiator Levels and smacked all the feats on the head with it.

Hmmm. Low health or surrounded. I can work with that. Thanks! :smallsmile: