Spell Perfection with Summon Monster?

[Serarya]

Hi there,

I want to know your opinions on my thought for Spell Perfection. Regarding RAW:

Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

Lets say, I'll take Summon Monster IX with Spell Perfection. Althrough I can't use this spell to add a metamagic feat, due the modified level will be greater than 9, my summon Spells will be affected by the second effect:

Augment Summoning should add +8 instead of +4 to strengh and constitution
Superior Summoning should add +2 instead of +1 to the numbers of creatures summoned, if I summon more than one creature.

So I could Summon 1W3+2 Monsters VIII when I use this spell with +8 strengh (+4 to hit and damage) and +8 constitution (+4 hit points per dice)

Am I right? Is it worth the feat?

[SangoProduction]

Yeah, basically, also, check this thread out. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187105-PF-Spell-Perfection-Feat-abuse

Do note that Necroplague did say something about quadrupling the bonuses, but when you add multipliers, you take 1 off of each additional multiplier. So having a 2x (Spell Perfection) and a 2x (some Epic feat) would come out to having 3x multiplier.

[Serarya]

Yeah I did take a look in this thread, it has high abuse potential, but this is not what I am targeting for. See above, I am think on takeing this for my highest level Summon Spell, so the Metamagic Abuse potatial is negated.

Is this feat still good without the mentioned Metamagic reduction and is a +8 to STR and CON instad of +4 and one creature more to summon worth it?

It is still a level 17 feat due a level 9 spell - very lategame here.

[The_Jette]

Side question here, if you don't mind: if you cast a Maximized Summon Monster, would the monster(s) summoned have max hit points?

[SangoProduction]

Yeah I did take a look in this thread, it has high abuse potential, but this is not what I am targeting for. See above, I am think on takeing this for my highest level Summon Spell, so the Metamagic Abuse potatial is negated.

Is this feat still good without the mentioned Metamagic reduction and is a +8 to STR and CON instad of +4 and one creature more to summon worth it?

It is still a level 17 feat due a level 9 spell - very lategame here.

Yeah. There are few singular feats as valuable as this one, that aren't basically ripping something from casters in to some tiny feat (like acquire familiar in 3.5).

[Serarya]

Side question here, if you don't mind: if you cast a Maximized Summon Monster, would the monster(s) summoned have max hit points?

I can't answer your question - but when you want to take Spell Perfection with the highest spell slot available, you can't use metamagic, due the modified slot would be higher than spell-level 9.

You can't take spell perfection earlier than Level 15 due high requirements, and I can't think about it being worth: Is it better to have a 6th level summoned monster with maximum hit points or a 9th level summoned monster?

[Necroticplague]

You can't take spell perfection earlier than Level 15 due high requirements, and I can't think about it being worth: Is it better to have a 6th level summoned monster with maximum hit points or a 9th level summoned monster?

9th level summoned monster. A summon dying isn't a big deal, as they're replaceable. However, a stronger summon can do damage/exert more control while it's their, and it's improved defences (like AC and Saves) could very well compensate for non-maximized HP).

[the_david]

Am I right? Is it worth the feat?

Spell Focus (Conjuration) + Augment Summoning + Superior Summoning + Spell Perfection + 3 metamagic feats = 7 feats.

When you go for tricks like this one you risk turning your build into a one trick pony. In this case it's summoning, and that's not a bad tactic. You just got to keep at it until you reach level 17. Are you willing to do that?

On a side note, I'll add this tactic to my Ponymancer.

[Serarya]

Spell Focus (Conjuration) + Augment Summoning + Superior Summoning + Spell Perfection + 3 metamagic feats = 7 feats.

When you go for tricks like this one you risk turning your build into a one trick pony. In this case it's summoning, and that's not a bad tactic. You just got to keep at it until you reach level 17. Are you willing to do that?

On a side note, I'll add this tactic to my Ponymancer.

At the moment I'm already a level 7 summoner, so Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning are already taken. Augment Summoning is on my way, too.
At least 2 Metamagic feats will be taken, too, Quicken Spell and Rime Spell for a Cone of Cold. I'm sure I'll find the 3rd one.

Even if my Specialisation is for summoning - I'm still a wizzard. I'm not giving up my other powers, I'm only specializing into some of them.

[The_Jette]

Spell Focus (Conjuration) + Spell Perfection + Augment Summoning + Beckon The Frozen = summoning a monster with +8 to Str and Con, and +2d6 cold damage to all attacks. Add Imbued Summoning, and you can cast any 3rd level or lower spell on the summoned monster without taking up any extra actions. So, all of a sudden your summoned monster comes in with Protection From Energy, Heroism, Rage (morale bonus to Str stacks with the enhancement bonus), or even Invisibility! And, that still leaves four or five free feats to do with as you please.

[Psyren]

Side question here, if you don't mind: if you cast a Maximized Summon Monster, would the monster(s) summoned have max hit points?

No, because the hit points of the monster you summon are not an effect of the spell. You will however maximize the number of creatures you get if you're downranking (e.g. to 1d3 one rank lower or to 1d4+1 two ranks lower.)

[Serarya]

Spell Focus (Conjuration) + Spell Perfection + Augment Summoning + Beckon The Frozen = summoning a monster with +8 to Str and Con, and +2d6 cold damage to all attacks. Add Imbued Summoning, and you can cast any 3rd level or lower spell on the summoned monster without taking up any extra actions. So, all of a sudden your summoned monster comes in with Protection From Energy, Heroism, Rage (morale bonus to Str stacks with the enhancement bonus), or even Invisibility! And, that still leaves four or five free feats to do with as you please.

I believer Beckon The Frozen and Imbued Summoning are D&D 3.5 Feats if I could remember right. I can't use them due I'm playing Pathfinder^^

[Florian]

Am I right? Is it worth the feat?

You´re right and no, not worth it. Consider that you build up a very heavy feat chain that does what a one-level dip into Skald or a good group buff could also do.