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Wolfswift
2017-06-07, 10:59 AM
I have Imperious Command, opponents cower when I demoralize them, cower says they can take no actions, but my DM says attacks of opportunity is a reaction, not an action.

Necroticplague
2017-06-07, 11:08 AM
I have Imperious Command, opponents cower when I demoralize them, cower says they can take no actions, but my DM says attacks of opportunity is a reaction, not an action.

I would say "no".
First off, an AoO is a type of action (attack action).
Second off: reducto ad absurdum: under this same logic, you could make AoO's while unconcious, paralyzed, sleeping, or dead, if he had Combat Reflexes.
Third off, Cowering is more severe than Panicking, which has this to say:
If cornered, a panicked creature cowers and does not attack, typically using the total defense action in combat. Since Cowering is more severe than Panicked, it should carry all the same penalties in, addition to it's own. Thus, it does not attack, even if cornered.

Elkad
2017-06-07, 11:54 AM
As a house rule, I might be inclined to allow AoO as a defensive move (vs a grapple, unarmed attack, or similar).
But taking a swing at people running by, or casting within threat range? No. And you'd automatically take the "safest for you" action in some cases. Like stepping aside vs an overrun.

Inevitability
2017-06-07, 12:56 PM
Sounds like your DM is mixing up 5e and 3.5 rules.

Wolfswift
2017-06-07, 03:18 PM
I would say "no".
First off, an AoO is a type of action (attack action).
Second off: reducto ad absurdum: under this same logic, you could make AoO's while unconcious, paralyzed, sleeping, or dead, if he had Combat Reflexes.
Third off, Cowering is more severe than Panicking, which has this to say: Since Cowering is more severe than Panicked, it should carry all the same penalties in, addition to it's own. Thus, it does not attack, even if cornered.

Thank you, this is the kind of stuff I was looking for, but is there somewhere in the rules that actually states that attack of opportunity is an attack action so I can point that out to him? Because technically Imperious Command jumps them right into cower without going through panic, so it could be inferred this instance might not be considered an escalated panic.

The funny thing is I didn't tell him my plan, just asked if a creature that can take no action can make an attack of opportunity and he said yes, so I will mention to him about immobile, sleeping, unconscious and DEAD creatures making them and see what he thinks then.

My intention is to grapple the cowering opponent then nonlethal them into unconsciousness, pinning them when possible to disable. Problem bring that I don't have improved grapple, so I figured cowing them first would save me from the AoO.

Malimar
2017-06-07, 03:42 PM
Your DM is wrong, there's no such thing as a "reaction".

But others in this thread also appear to be wrong (at least on what kind of action an AoO is), Rules Compendium p8 and p18 lists attacks of opportunity as "No Action" and "isn't considered an action". I can't find anything that forbids cowering creatures from taking non-actions.

I think this conclusion is dumb, but them's the RAW.

daremetoidareyo
2017-06-07, 04:10 PM
Your DM is wrong, there's no such thing as a "reaction".

But others in this thread also appear to be wrong (at least on what kind of action an AoO is), Rules Compendium p8 and p18 lists attacks of opportunity as "No Action" and "isn't considered an action". I can't find anything that forbids cowering creatures from taking non-actions.

I think this conclusion is dumb, but them's the RAW.

I mean, panicking creatures will opportunistically lash out at creatures that get too close. So maybe in the context of being more panicked it makes sense.

Wolfswift
2017-06-07, 06:48 PM
In all honesty, even if this opponent does opportunity attack me when I attempt to grapple, I seriously doubt she can hit me, I will have 64 AC against her attack, I don't know what she has up her sleeve tho, she might pull a rabbit out and manage something. However, my whole thought of being like "OH! I can use my Intimidating Rage to demoralize her at a range as a free action, then charge in and use my Battle Jump to begin a grapple counting as one size larger without her getting any opportunity attack." I think that what Necroticplague should apply tho. If any creature denied any actions can take opportunity attacks, then all should.

So by RAW, then any creature who is Cowering, Dazed, Fascinated, Helpless, Immobile, Nauseated, Panicked, Paralyzed, Petrified, Pinned, Sleeping, Stunned or Unconcious can all take an attack or opportunity if they are provoked? Does that make sense?

Silva Stormrage
2017-06-07, 07:09 PM
Ya as others have stated RAW and RAI no if you are cowering you can't take an AOO. There is no such thing as a "reaction" action in 3.5. The closest being an immediate action which you can't do anyway if you are cowering. If he wants to houserule it he is free to but it would be a houserule.

Crake
2017-06-07, 11:31 PM
Is it possible that your DM misunderstood what you asked? Perhaps he thought you said something like "When a creature takes no actions" like when they delay? Because even saying "it's a reaction" I just wanna point out the word is reaction. A reaction is a subset of actions, so if a creature cannot act, it likewise cannot react.

Allanimal
2017-06-08, 02:57 AM
A panicked creature who is cornered becomes cowering.
A panicked creature drops everything it is holding.
Normally, if you don't have a weapon to threaten with, you can't make an AOO. (I know there are exceptions)
Cowering says you are "frozen with fear".
If I were DM, I would say no to the AOOs. But my players say I'm a nice DM...

Wolfswift
2017-06-08, 09:26 AM
A panicked creature who is cornered becomes cowering.
A panicked creature drops everything it is holding.
Normally, if you don't have a weapon to threaten with, you can't make an AOO. (I know there are exceptions)
Cowering says you are "frozen with fear".
If I were DM, I would say no to the AOOs. But my players say I'm a nice DM...

Ah! That's right, normally unarmed characters can not make attacks of opportunity, that might be useful, however, a better question here is, if someone begins cowering by use of the Imperious Command feat, would they technically have ever passed through the panicked condition? It may work regardless as I don't think the character had yet drawn a weapon, they drew a wand and buffed themself on the prior turn, so I doubt they also drew a weapon and if I can make them cower before their next turn, they will not draw a weapon.

Thurbane
2017-06-17, 08:11 PM
Your DM is wrong, there's no such thing as a "reaction".

But others in this thread also appear to be wrong (at least on what kind of action an AoO is), Rules Compendium p8 and p18 lists attacks of opportunity as "No Action" and "isn't considered an action". I can't find anything that forbids cowering creatures from taking non-actions.

I think this conclusion is dumb, but them's the RAW.

I'm inclined to agree with this being RAW.

RAI can be argued otherwise, but I cannot find anything in Cowering specifically forbidding AoO.