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Saffron-sama
2017-06-07, 05:54 PM
My players and I are looking for a new system. With most of us bored of pathfinder and its rules we only swapped back to it due to us knowing the system and Spheres of Power (drop dead studios 3rd party content).
What I am looking for is
-A system with the capacity to run many different time periods. By this I mean rules and items for many differing time periods.
-Economy. I.E. no wealth is a skill check like d20modern. Gear and ect with pricing.
-Monsters. No GM has to make them himself with little to no help from the system.
-Magic, well kind of. I can always try adapting spheres of power to the system if need be.
-No if you apply real world physics the game becomes busted. I hate pathfinder for its bizarre rules that make physics ruin the game.
-Classless but with Levels. The group is sick of classes and their lock on abilities but enjoys the stability that levels apply to a character, including an easy linear progress that is easy to track.
-Plenty of character options.

Perferably free or with a legal system refrence document, I don't want to be buying a dozen systems that don't work or generally not somehing I like.
Help is appreciated and sorry if I forgot something and thank you for the help.

Systems read / played: Rifts, D&D 3.5, 4 and 5, Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, D6 system, Dark Heresy (hated).

Knaight
2017-06-07, 06:11 PM
If you're willing to bend a bit on classless but with levels, GURPS will work for this - and levels can be reintroduced pretty easily by just having big chunks of character points come every few sessions linked to an introduced level up mechanic.

Godskook
2017-06-07, 06:30 PM
-A system with the capacity to run many different time periods. By this I mean rules and items for many differing time periods.

A bit of a stretch. GURPS?


-Economy. I.E. no wealth is a skill check like d20modern. Gear and ect with pricing.

Is pathfinder/D&D enough? Or are you looking for something more than that?

Depending on goals, could be easy or a stretch. From what I'm reading, not GURPs. Definitely not White-wolf games.


-Monsters. No GM has to make them himself with little to no help from the system.

Fairly standard.


-Magic, well kind of. I can always try adapting spheres of power to the system if need be.

Doable. I'm sticking to GURPs at this point.


-No if you apply real world physics the game becomes busted. I hate pathfinder for its bizarre rules that make physics ruin the game.

Ok, this is singularly ridiculous. The commoner railgun exists in basically every system that doesn't use live-action turn ordering.


-Classless but with Levels. The group is sick of classes and their lock on abilities but enjoys the stability that levels apply to a character, including an easy linear progress that is easy to track.

Probably doable? At least we're back to "sane".


-Plenty of character options.

GURPs


Perferably free or with a legal system refrence document, I don't want to be buying a dozen systems that don't work or generally not somehing I like.

GURPs has a lite version for free. Generally speaking, you're not going to get quality, quantity *AND* free. I'd prepare yourself for disappointment.

Saffron-sama
2017-06-07, 07:00 PM
A bit of a stretch. GURPS?



Is pathfinder/D&D enough? Or are you looking for something more than that?

Depending on goals, could be easy or a stretch. From what I'm reading, not GURPs. Definitely not White-wolf games.



Fairly standard.



Doable. I'm sticking to GURPs at this point.



Ok, this is singularly ridiculous. The commoner railgun exists in basically every system that doesn't use live-action turn ordering.



Probably doable? At least we're back to "sane".



GURPs



GURPs has a lite version for free. Generally speaking, you're not going to get quality, quantity *AND* free. I'd prepare yourself for disappointment.

I don't need all filled just most.
It does not necessarily need to be free but as I don't have alot of disposable income. Buying 3 60 dollar books like D&D requires is out of the question.
The other reason I am looking for a game with an SRD is that they tend to be more tidy then the books tends to be.
The game economy wise I dont want to have to create an economy for a game. Pathfinder did a decent job on its mundane pricing but magic pricing is all kinds of borked.
I can ignore the commoner railgun but with invisible shields, the oddity that is armor, damage, hp is. I don't like the fact that I can jump off of a 1000' cliff survive and run away when I am a mundane 10th level fighter.

Godskook
2017-06-07, 07:19 PM
I don't like the fact that I can jump off of a 1000' cliff survive and run away when I am a mundane 10th level fighter.

A 10th level fighter has more in common with Goku, Superman and Thor than he does with -you-.

That being said....this is not actually an unrealistic thing you're complaining about:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/skydiver-survives-14000-foot-fall-3699030

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/skydiver-survives-8-000-foot-fall-parachute-fails-article-1.1291265

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/10070702/Base-jumper-survives-1000ft-fall-with-minor-injuries.html

As you can see, mere sub-level-6 real-world people can survive falls like the one you listed. Why can't a superhuman 10th level Fighter do it?

Saffron-sama
2017-06-07, 07:32 PM
My issue with it is that those are one in a million occurrences and a 10th level fighter survives nearly 100% of the time.

I also don't equate fighters to Goku, Superman or Thor with the immune to practically everything due to alien biology.

Plus this is not what the thread is about since it was almost unanimous group decision from my group to find a new system.

Stan
2017-06-07, 07:56 PM
The Cypher system used by Numenera by Monte Cook is alright. There are 3 broad classes, each with possible paths. In addition to class, you pick background and specialization so there is the customization of D20 games but it doesn't go all crazy stupid about it. It feels nearly classless as background and specialization are independent of class and are as important. There are 6 levels where you get to pick new powers. The power curve is not nearly as extreme as D&D - you start a bit better than the average mook and you top out roughly as tough as a level 8 D&D character.

I have Numenera but not the generic cypher book, though it appears to be specifically for multi-genre. The former has many premade monsters, so I assume the latter does too. It's also very easy to fudge NPCs/monsters. Most of their abilities are determined by their level, then you tweak a couple of things as desired.

One interesting thing is the effort mechanics - at a very basic level, you spend hit points to have better odds or retry something.

Blackhawk748
2017-06-07, 08:01 PM
Id recommend Savage Worlds. Im not sure on the Physics thing, but you said you dont need all the boxes checked. Anyway, Savage Worlds lets you run pretty much any time period (and they even have supplement books for the big ones, you dont need these they just add more options) they use money to buy gear, it has levels per se (it has career ranks, which are kind of like levels) and it has a bunch of neat options for building characters.

Godskook
2017-06-07, 08:08 PM
Plus this is not what the thread is about since it was almost unanimous group decision from my group to find a new system.

Its not a point to get you to reconsider D&D, its a point to get you to have a more realistic understanding of physics so you can be happy with your choice of new game.

You said you want to try something new, and that's a 100% fair thing that I try to do sometimes too. I'm not interested in interferring with that goal.


My issue with it is that those are one in a million occurrences and a 10th level fighter survives nearly 100% of the time.

The statistics I can find suggest that its more likely a due to training than luck. The number of skydivers who -die- every year from skydiving is such a small figure that I'd need to aggregate data from other, less-trained fields to be comfortable making the bold claim that surviving a fall like that is less than one in a million.

Also, a 10th level Fighter, in our world, is probably about 1 in several trillions.


I also don't equate fighters to Goku, Superman or Thor with the immune to practically everything due to alien biology.

I didn't either. I said "more like". 3.5's balance(which PF inherited ) is such that the entirety of LotR can be statted with level 6 or lower characters, except maybe Sauron. Gandalf himself is a level 5-6 Wizard. Merely hitting level 7 pushes you into the super-human.

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2

Anonymouswizard
2017-06-07, 09:03 PM
Oh boy, this is a weird list. Time to start on it. Generally in these 'recommend me a system' threads I stick to my 'three generics' of GURPS, Savage Worlds, and Fate (roughly a spectrum from simulationist to narrativist) unless a specific genre is mentioned.


-A system with the capacity to run many different time periods. By this I mean rules and items for many differing time periods.

So no generic rules that can work with any genre and time period? Well there goes Fate. GURPS and Savage Worlds are still holding strong.


-Economy. I.E. no wealth is a skill check like d20modern. Gear and ect with pricing.

Ouch, Fate and it's generic Resources skill takes another stab. GURPS is going well with it's comprehensive gear books, and Savage Worlds at least has a good spread of technology scattered around. Shout out to Traveller for the fact that trading is so important to many games there was an entire sourcebook devoted to the setting's economics.


-Monsters. No GM has to make them himself with little to no help from the system.

Savage Worlds has a good number of statted beasties in most books.


-Magic, well kind of. I can always try adapting spheres of power to the system if need be.

What do you mean here? Just powers? Well GURPS has at least six different magic systems floating around, honestly I just stopped counting, and Savage Worlds just throws some flavour and bonus mechanics on a generic powers system for magic/miracles/psionics/weird science.


-No if you apply real world physics the game becomes busted. I hate pathfinder for its bizarre rules that make physics ruin the game.

I think the only game that satisfies this criteria is called 'real life'.


-Classless but with Levels. The group is sick of classes and their lock on abilities but enjoys the stability that levels apply to a character, including an easy linear progress that is easy to track.

This is essentially Savage Worlds, although it spreads advancement out to 4 'chunks' per level. Every 5 XP you get +1 stat (once a level), +2 skill points, or an Edge (feat), new Edges are advanced every 5XP.


-Plenty of character options.

Define Plenty.


Perferably free or with a legal system refrence document, I don't want to be buying a dozen systems that don't work or generally not somehing I like.
Help is appreciated and sorry if I forgot something and thank you for the help.

Systems read / played: Rifts, D&D 3.5, 4 and 5, Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, D6 system, Dark Heresy (hated).

Well, it sounds like you might want Savage Worlds, but it's not free (Explorer's Edition is pretty cheap though), and it looks like you've read/played it already. It's literally the only system I've read that fits all bar one (maybe two) of your requirements.

GURPS is also good, because GURPS runs on flexibility. Also awkwardly long lists, but it's smooth once you've made characters.

Mutazoia
2017-06-08, 01:41 AM
Normally I suggest the D6 system, but since you are already aware of it's existance, and you want a classless system....take a look at Warhammer Fantasy.

RazorChain
2017-06-08, 03:03 AM
My players and I are looking for a new system. With most of us bored of pathfinder and its rules we only swapped back to it due to us knowing the system and Spheres of Power (drop dead studios 3rd party content).
What I am looking for is
-A system with the capacity to run many different time periods. By this I mean rules and items for many differing time periods.

Gurps does this. I've run everything from Rome, Celtic Myths, Medieval fantasy, Swashbucklers, Cthulhu 1920's, Deadlands (weird west), Modern Blackops, Cyberpunk, Transhuman Space and Traveller.



-Economy. I.E. no wealth is a skill check like d20modern. Gear and ect with pricing.

Gurps is a equipment whores wet dream with equipment books like Low tech, High tech, Ultra tech and Bio Tech



-Monsters. No GM has to make them himself with little to no help from the system.

Gurps has a lot of monster but sadly they have not been compiled in any monster book other than creatures of the night. Monsters are spread all over the world books but luckily Google is your friend and lots of people post stats for monsters and beasts online




-Magic, well kind of. I can always try adapting spheres of power to the system if need be.

Gurps has lot of magic system from Ritual Path Magic to Chinese Elemental Mastery. Then you can also just use Gurps Powers and use it as magic where you buy powers instead of spells.



-No if you apply real world physics the game becomes busted. I hate pathfinder for its bizarre rules that make physics ruin the game.

No game can emulate real world physics but Gurps plays up to your realistic expectations. If you shoot somebody in the brain he'll probably die, if you grab that Zweihander and stab somebody through the guts he'll be in a bad shape and probably die. If you jump from that cliff you'll be lucky if you only break both your legs. Then you can break these by adding superpowers or wuxia rules if you want to.



-Classless but with Levels. The group is sick of classes and their lock on abilities but enjoys the stability that levels apply to a character, including an easy linear progress that is easy to track.
-Plenty of character options.

Gurps has tons of character options but no easy linear progression that is easy to track, Gurps uses point buy for everything and no levels.



Perferably free or with a legal system refrence document, I don't want to be buying a dozen systems that don't work or generally not somehing I like.
Help is appreciated and sorry if I forgot something and thank you for the help.

I'm not going to disclose how much money I've spent on Gurps. It was either Gurps or buying a baby elephant and I don't regret my choice. But mostly I only use 3-4 books for each campaign depending on what I'm running. The more equipment heavy the more books I use.

Gurps is has lots of rules and is very crunchy. I started running it for a new group a year ago and they had no problem adapting to the system but it can be daunting to memorize all the rules.

Saffron-sama
2017-06-08, 03:26 PM
With a lot of suggestions for GURPS and looking at the Lite version. I will be ording some books next payday and keeping an eye peeled when I go to the used book store.
Any suggestion books wise from them since there seems to be quite a few?

2D8HP
2017-06-08, 03:55 PM
With a lot of suggestions for GURPS and looking at the Lite version. I will be ording some books next payday and keeping an eye peeled when I go to the used book store.
Any suggestion books wise from them since there seems to be quite a few?


I loved the GURPS Swashbucklers "Worldbook"

You can also look at the free "retro-clone" Labyrinth Lord,

(sample pdf (http://goblinoidgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/GBD1001_no_art.zip))

Chaosium's BRP, which is just so intuitive.
(Here's a pdf sample (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwi2yMuqooTUAhVpz1QKHZrTAPAQFggfMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chaosium.com%2Fcontent%2FFree PDFs%2FBRP%2FCHA2021%2520-%2520Basic%2520RolePlaying%2520Quick-Start.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGmy2_JQrnYDUhYIyRJT3ghBDKF-Q)), is my "go-to" generic system.

They're many BRP based games, the most known of which is Call of Cthullu, which I found to be one of the easiest RPG's to Gamemaster or "Keeper", more D&D like were RuneQuest, Pendragon (my favorite), and Stormbringer, but the most D&D like was Magic World (free pdf "quick start) (http://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/Magic%20World/Magic%20World%20Quickstart.pdf), which was designed to use "Runequest like rules, but with a gonzo D&D feel".

You can also try D&D 5e's rules, just using the online free rules (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules)

Mark Hall
2017-06-08, 05:38 PM
My players and I are looking for a new system. With most of us bored of pathfinder and its rules we only swapped back to it due to us knowing the system and Spheres of Power (drop dead studios 3rd party content).
What I am looking for is
-A system with the capacity to run many different time periods. By this I mean rules and items for many differing time periods.
-Economy. I.E. no wealth is a skill check like d20modern. Gear and ect with pricing.
-Monsters. No GM has to make them himself with little to no help from the system.
-Magic, well kind of. I can always try adapting spheres of power to the system if need be.
-No if you apply real world physics the game becomes busted. I hate pathfinder for its bizarre rules that make physics ruin the game.
-Classless but with Levels. The group is sick of classes and their lock on abilities but enjoys the stability that levels apply to a character, including an easy linear progress that is easy to track.
-Plenty of character options.

Perferably free or with a legal system refrence document, I don't want to be buying a dozen systems that don't work or generally not somehing I like.
Help is appreciated and sorry if I forgot something and thank you for the help.

Systems read / played: Rifts, D&D 3.5, 4 and 5, Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, D6 system, Dark Heresy (hated).

While not free, Savage Worlds. Classless, but with levels. Money-based economics. Lots of flexibility. The core rules are plenty to work with, and cost about $10 for a PDF. You've mentioned familiarity with d6, which also will do it pretty well.

Knaight
2017-06-09, 03:57 PM
With a lot of suggestions for GURPS and looking at the Lite version. I will be ording some books next payday and keeping an eye peeled when I go to the used book store.
Any suggestion books wise from them since there seems to be quite a few?

Low Tech and High Tech cover a really broad range between them, and are among the least specific GURPS books. With that said, I'd get the two core books and only the two core books to start with, and actually play some GURPS. If you end up really liking it, then I would consider branching out.

Gnoman
2017-06-09, 04:03 PM
Note that there isn't that much difference between GURPS editions. If, for example, you find a cheap copy of 3E High Tech, you'll be able to use it in a 4E game with much less modification than would be the case for a 2nd Edition AD&D book in a 3.5 game.

Anonymouswizard
2017-06-09, 05:52 PM
Low Tech and High Tech cover a really broad range between them, and are among the least specific GURPS books. With that said, I'd get the two core books and only the two core books to start with, and actually play some GURPS. If you end up really liking it, then I would consider branching out.

I'd say that Ultra Tech is almost necessary if running a future game, the noncombat equipment in the corebook basically caps at modern technology and Ultra Tech has some of the more interesting ideas from modern science fiction.

However, I love GURPS and can say that it can manage near future, modern, and fantasy with the core book (Transhuman Space also gives enough tech to run the setting, although the book is 3e). I'd say that after that what you should buy depends on what you want, and you can do most games with core+1 or core+2 (I think Time Travel is the only time you'd want more than one tech book, and then it's pretty much just a setting book and maybe one or two for elements). Although there's no limit on how many books you can add to a game, I plan to at some point run a game that uses Ultra Tech, Space, Magic, Thaumotology, the Psychic Powers web supplement, and potentially a couple more if I can buy everything.

But certainly start with the core two (and unlike D&D the two core books is justified, it's packed full of options and rules with 10 pages given to a sample world-hopping setting) and then branch out. It's certainly intimidating at first and building a character without templates can take a while (luckily the books tend to have a lot of templates), but in play it all works smoothly.

EDIT: yeah, 3e and 4e are mostly compatible, points costs have changed but things like technology translate with maybe a couple of minutes of work. Psionics works completely differently between the editions, and it's better to use a 4e psionics system because they're balanced better.

kyoryu
2017-06-09, 06:37 PM
EDIT: yeah, 3e and 4e are mostly compatible, points costs have changed but things like technology translate with maybe a couple of minutes of work. Psionics works completely differently between the editions, and it's better to use a 4e psionics system because they're balanced better.

Armor works much better, as the removal of passive defense from (most, at least?) armor means that you don't have the situation you did in 3e where you were comically easy to hit if unarmored, in addition to the DR properties.

Guizonde
2017-06-13, 02:48 PM
Normally I suggest the D6 system, but since you are already aware of it's existance, and you want a classless system....take a look at Warhammer Fantasy.

if it helps, i've run a bastard hybrid between whfrp2e and dark heresy for 4 years now. it had some... teething issues (read: lots of homebrewing and house-ruling) but it does allow for power-armored individuals firing gatling laser guns fighting off a horde of near-naked mutants wielding spears. it's for a post-apocalyptic setting where if you get a flintlock gun, it will blow a hole in someone (you or your target is up to chance).

another fringe benefit is that it's brain-dead easy to pick up. a player of mine had a grand total of zero minutes of play in pen and paper. in 20 minutes, he picked the game up. he was also the next dm after about 17 sessions.

i scrapped the money system from whfrp (i may be english-born, i don't get old currency) and swapped it out. iirc, dark heresy uses a standard "throne" currency. regarding physics? aside from magic, if you're taking a fall, you'd better hope to have a grappling hook. a 3 meter fall can break your leg. it's possible to do a wall run for an accomplished athlete, if you take a 3% chance as "possible" rather than "highly unlikely".

please note: the magic system is incredibly all or nothing. it will either one-shot clear a room or provoke a tpk. the entire system is so lethal in the foreword to character creation in whfrp it flatly states "you might want to have 2 or 3 rerolls handy when playing a campaign". there are fate points and they won't always save your butt. best case scenario? you get hit in the testicles. worst case where your character is still alive? one major limb or organ is lost forever.

it makes you play smart and adds self-preservation to your standard rp requirements.

the OOD
2017-06-13, 04:24 PM
My players and I are looking for a new system. With most of us bored of pathfinder and its rules we only swapped back to it due to us knowing the system and Spheres of Power (drop dead studios 3rd party content).
What I am looking for is
-A system with the capacity to run many different time periods. By this I mean rules and items for many differing time periods.
-Economy. I.E. no wealth is a skill check like d20modern. Gear and ect with pricing.
-Monsters. No GM has to make them himself with little to no help from the system.
-Magic, well kind of. I can always try adapting spheres of power to the system if need be.
-No if you apply real world physics the game becomes busted. I hate pathfinder for its bizarre rules that make physics ruin the game.
-Classless but with Levels. The group is sick of classes and their lock on abilities but enjoys the stability that levels apply to a character, including an easy linear progress that is easy to track.
-Plenty of character options.

Perferably free or with a legal system refrence document, I don't want to be buying a dozen systems that don't work or generally not somehing I like.
Help is appreciated and sorry if I forgot something and thank you for the help.

Systems read / played: Rifts, D&D 3.5, 4 and 5, Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, D6 system, Dark Heresy (hated).

I highly recommend Universal Decay by Deamoneye Publishing

Time Periods: check, all the gear system is designed for this, you can set the tech level to "stone age" "20th" "intersteller" and everything in between. it doesn't change the mechanics or the system, just the options and quality of goods available
Economy: check, every item has a price, there are VERY comprehensive rules for making custom items, of you can use premade items(made according to crafting rules, already included in the book)
Monsters: half-check, there are 40 premade creatures/persons in the main book, designed for all kinds of settings(supernatural, space-faring, high-fantasy, xenofauna, ect), but sooner or later, you are going to need to make your own. on the plus side, like everything in the system, there is a highly consistent system for designing creatures and npcs, no CR eyeballing required.
Magic: check! if you include the magic rules, every school of magic is a feat that can be taken at character creation, and provides a set of additional options. majic is cast freeform as a skill check, the more effects and power you add to a spell, the harder the check.at the time of casting, I decide I need to make a wall of fire to cut off the advancing ghouls, my Elemental Fire school includes an option to deal 1d6 fire damage(1 point), witch I will use twice for a total of 2d6 fire(2 points). next, to turn it into a wall, I use some effects from the universal magic options: 10-foot line(1 point), and lasts +1 turns(2 points).

end result:
2d6 fire damage: 2 points
10-foot line: 1 point
lasts 2 turns: 2 points

spellcraft DC formula: 10+(points * 2)
spellcraft DC: 20

I have a +14 spellcraft giving me a 70% chance of successfully casting this spell

additionally, many mage players will write down their favorite spells beforehand, to save time when deciding what to cast.Physics: check! one of the strongest parts of the system. the game is written with a strong understanding of physics, and acts as a surprisingly(sometimes alarmingly) good model of reality.
Classless: no. Universal Decay does use classes, although character class grants you additional options, you are NOT defined by your class. players often take levels in 3 or more classes, and even two straight-classed warriors often play very differently. this might or might not be a problem for your group.
Plenty of Character Options: check, even if you only use one setting and tech level, with no extra rules, there are a ton of interesting builds and character options, and inventing and discovering these can be a ton of fun. even better is if you use several(or all) of the setting-specific rules in one game. the former combat medic who now uses her knowledge of anatomy as sniper can be even more fun if you add in a high-tech laser rifle, sign a Demonic Pact, use Psionic Powers to teleport and see through walls, or infuse your bullets with fire magic(or use low-caliber rounds with healing spells for long-range heals!).

no SRD, but all rules, systems, and settings are included in a single book, available hardcopy or as pdf(see sig).