I need help with a birthday gift and symbology.

[The Eye]

So, I have this... Friend? Well I'm not really sure if he really is my friend since I kind of have this Love-hate relationship with him, he is really nice don't get me wrong but we are just too different.

He is a Christian - I'm atheist.
He is kind - I'm kind of judgmental jerk.
He works with numbers - I'm work with people.
He does charity (I think he reads for sick people in the hospitals) - I don't even help beggars.
He is fit - I'm a skeleton.
He has friends. - He is my only friend.
He is fan of sports - I hate sports.
He travels all the time - I never left my state.
He goes out often - I never live my house.

Anyway, we meet in an academic conference, we went to the same discussion and end up having a heated debate over the topic, some days after it I joined a book club he was a member of(the first book was Dune and I argued it was a perfect example of why messianic figures are extremely harmful he argued the opposite) and since them we have always been arguing and never getting in a conclusion, but that was the only socialization I ever did, we keep in touch after university and he has always been nice to me, offering me his empathy and emotional support.

He has been pushing me to go out and make friends and it has been working.

Now his birthday is coming and I wanted to give a nice gift to him since I wanted to show I'm very thankful, the problem is... We are too different, I don't want to give him anything offensive but I also don't want to give him something I don't believe in.

I’m big fan of Lovecraft, in special his Dream Cycle books (probably because I have always been tormented by weird and surreal dreams).

Last year, he gave me an Elder sign (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Elder_sign.jpg) t-shirt not that fake pentagram with an eye in the middle, the real one designed by Howard Phillips Lovecraft himself.

I think it may be my favorite gift ever! I always wanted to use nerdy t-shirts but they are too mainstream now a days (Thanks to the big bang theory I guess) I can’t wear super heroes t-shirts since everyone is doing it, but the Elder sign is not mainstream in special the original icon and not the Derleth version, it shows something I love and it’s a great conversation starter since only fans of Lovecraft and/or real nerdy people would be able to recognize it.

So I wanted to do the same to him, give him a Custom T-Shirt, the problem is that I don’t know what to give.
He is a very basic guy, normally his t-shirts are of one solid color, and he is not a big fan of big brands or stuff like that.

The only non-solid t-shirts I saw him using some BioShock t-shirts and dark souls, in special the one with Solaire symbol.

That gave me an idea, he really seems to love the sun motif, we play Smite together and his main gods are Ra, Apollo, Sol and Hou-Yi, they are all Solar Gods. His favorite Gods are Lathander and Amaterasu.

We also play magic together, both online and in real life, we both love the The Guilds of Ravnica set and he uses an Orzhov Syndicate deck (Black and white) so my idea was to give him a t-shirt with that guild symbol:

https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gamelore/images/d/db/Orzhov_Syndicate.png/revision/latest?cb=20121017003934

The first problem is that yesterday I started talking about colors with him, I asked him what was his opinion about purple and he said he didn’t like to wear purple cloths.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/d586a54be89265628c1cb9097f5eea64/tumblr_or7d7sCWY61veme87o1_1280.png

Fine, no problem I have this symbol in white and black, but then after a lot more talking he said he don’t like black t-shirts since they get too hot.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/8d079d7561518c8a24a995a178513129/tumblr_or7d7sCWY61veme87o2_1280.png

Fine I personally hate white t-shirts since they get dirty so fast(The t-shirt he gave me was white btw but it’s the only one I like) but I could have a white t-shirt with a black symbol like the one he gave me.

The problem was he is a Christian form a very catholic family, I’m afraid that they may consider it some kind of occult symbolism behind the gift since the black sun is alchemical symbol. (https://www.amazon.com/Black-Sun-Darkness-Analytical-Psychology/dp/160344078X)

He is also very superstitious and I’m afraid he will find some problem with the symbology since the black sun may be a Nazi symbol. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sun_(occult_symbol)) I don't want him to get in trouble because of a stupid gift.

Besides a new friend of mine I asked about said that although he uses a Orzhov Syndicat, he only does it because he likes using Life link ability and that deck uses it a lot, he is probably not a big fan of lore and fluff, it kind of makes fun of religion since they look like a Church but are basically a Greedy mafia.

So now I don’t know if I should go on with that idea, what you guys think? Is that symbol or offensive, racist and evil? Or is it fine?

Give him another custom t-shirt, if so what? I’m considering giving him the white mana symbol (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOhCrPhXzrZnDlYtipXaq-pzDTSj4q5ZB0CGVySZ2ZOP9b6rlVGIpxXjf), but that only ends half of the problem. Maybe the Ravnica symbol (https://68.media.tumblr.com/8a9bd29ceb544caf9fe360d73491f9f3/tumblr_or7d7sCWY61veme87o3_1280.png)?

Give him something else? If so what? I suck at gifts, I normally just give money but I want this gift to be great and mean something,

Give him a black t-shirt with white sun anyway since he may end up liking it.
Or maybe something else? Other options I have in mind are a panting he likes or a decorative sword, but both are a lot more expensive and not as cool.

What do you guys think? I need help.

[Razade]

Ask him what he wants, if it's in your price range get it for him. It's as simple as that.

[The Eye]

Ask him what he wants, if it's in your price range get it for him. It's as simple as that.

But that's not fun, I want it to be a nice a surprise, like he did to me.

[Razade]

But that's not fun, I want it to be a nice a surprise, like he did to me.

Not everyone likes surprises. He already knows you're going to get him something. Cut out the chance he won't like what you want to give him. It's still a gift, he'll still appreciate it. If you're worried about him not liking the symbols ask him.

[2D8HP]

Get him some LotR's (movie) replica stuff.

Strider's pipe or "Sting", something like that.

If you do give a blade, it's traditional to include a coin so they can instantly "pay" you (https://www.knife-depot.com/blog/knife-myths-giving-knives-as-a-gift-is-bad-luck/).

[Knaight]

Putting aside broader issues of getting more friends, and putting aside how next to none of the information given was actually useful, we have basically three pieces of useful info.
1) The guy's a bit of a nerd. Dune alone pushes one part way there, but adding in a bit of MtG is a solid confirmation.
2) The guy likes reading (showing up at a book club indicates a certain level of appreciation for it).
3) He favors plain shirts. There's a handful of exceptions there with what sounds like a lot of block colors.

Point three in particular is a familiar one - every shirt I actually use that isn't plain is either affiliated with my school (and I only have those because they were way cheap) or from an academic conference for students (AIChE, specifically). Giving a shirt as a gift would likely not work well for me, and it probably applies here too.

I'd go with a book. It sounds like you've got a bit of a budget, and that can get into somewhat fancy books. Take a look at the Barnes & Noble Leatherbound Classics - it's a set of classic books, bound in leather, with some very nice covers. Given the fantasy and science fiction nerdity, I'd go with one of these two in particular:
https://prodimage.images-bn.com/pimages/9781435145405_p0_v2_s192x300.jpg
https://prodimage.images-bn.com/pimages/9781435126053_p0_v2_s192x300.jpg

Ask him what he wants, if it's in your price range get it for him. It's as simple as that.
The problem with this is that it cuts out things that he would like but that he doesn't know about. That's frequently one of the joys of gift giving and receiving, both of giving someone something they will love that was never even on their radar and of getting something that fits that same description.

[Razade]

The problem with this is that it cuts out things that he would like but that he doesn't know about. That's frequently one of the joys of gift giving and receiving, both of giving someone something they will love that was never even on their radar and of getting something that fits that same description.

Except it gives you a good idea of what he's looking for and if you have some ideas you can at least run them by the person. I personally like being told what someone is thinking of giving me and if it's something I had no idea about I'm all the more excited to get it.

[Shamash]

I don't think anyone will associate a generic black sun with that specific black sun, besides the very link to wikipedia you posted states that it has nothing to do with nazism.

[Knaight]

Except it gives you a good idea of what he's looking for and if you have some ideas you can at least run them by the person. I personally like being told what someone is thinking of giving me and if it's something I had no idea about I'm all the more excited to get it.

It's not a bad idea to run ideas by the person if they don't value the surprise (and I have no idea whether or not they do); I'm just saying that asking them what they want and buying exactly that is often not the best way to go about gift giving. It works well for people you don't know particularly well*, but otherwise I'd argue that there's more value in getting something likely to be off their radar.

*Distant younger relatives stand out in particular here. I'm not even 25, and I already know that my chances of getting something any of my kid relatives would like if I tried to go for kid focused stuff are slim - and that's with a few tenuous ties to that culture that come from having a significantly younger sibling with friends younger than him.

[Red Fel]

It's not a bad idea to run ideas by the person if they don't value the surprise (and I have no idea whether or not they do); I'm just saying that asking them what they want and buying exactly that is often not the best way to go about gift giving. It works well for people you don't know particularly well*, but otherwise I'd argue that there's more value in getting something likely to be off their radar.

*Distant younger relatives stand out in particular here. I'm not even 25, and I already know that my chances of getting something any of my kid relatives would like if I tried to go for kid focused stuff are slim - and that's with a few tenuous ties to that culture that come from having a significantly younger sibling with friends younger than him.

This. My parents stopped buying me gifts without asking me when I was about 8. They realized that they knew me pretty well as a person, but had limited or no understanding of my interests. Instead, I provided them with a list of things that might interest me, and they picked from the list. I still got to be surprised, they got a more concrete idea of things that would make me happy. If in doubt, use this method - ask your friend for, say, 3-5 things he'd like, and pick one for him.

There are some people like that - like me - who don't care for surprise gifts. People still try to get me things, and it forces me to be polite and pleasant and grateful when I'm not particularly feeling any of those things. On the other hand, there are some people who like receiving gifts without knowing. I can't tell you which kind your friend is.

If you don't want to ask, I'd go with the book idea. A really nice book or set of books is a great gift, and it sounds like he'd at least appreciate the sentiment. I'd be surprised if he doesn't already have the Chronicles of Narnia, given its religious undertones (and overtones, and tones in general), but as Knaight mentioned, B&N has a really fine leatherbound volume (https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/barnes-noble-leatherbound-classics-the-chronicles-of-narnia-c-s-lewis/1106658813); even if he has the books, this is a really gorgeous version, or at least a nice something for a coffee table. Another CS Lewis classic that combines science fiction with religious themes is his Space Trilogy, consisting of Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength; although I don't know of any leatherbound volumes you could find, they're surely available as a good boxed set.

[Honest Tiefling]

Well...How married are you to the shirt idea? If he plays magic, a really nice mat, some card protectors and deck holders? That way, the only people seeing it are going to know what's up. And from my experience, most MTG players need more of the latter, and more of the former couldn't hurt.

As a gag gift, you could give him a solar cell that attaches to his keychain to recharge electronics. If he travels, he could probably find use for it.

How open is he with his geeky hobbies? That might decide things if he only wears those shirts away from family.

And speaking of family, does he have children? Nieces? Nephews? If he does, make sure if you get the fancy books that he does collect things to keep away from small grubby hands. A nice copy he could share with his family might be preferable if his place is very childproof.

A black sun was a nazi occult symbol, I think, but I don't think all are. The nazis did have a major tendency to coopt a lot of existing symbolism. Their main symbol sorta was a hindu thing and I think still is. (Which led me to be VERY confused when I went into an Indian restaurant one time...)

Just remember: If he is truly your friend, he'll be touched. I've been given gifts that I consider both good and bad. The bad ones were given to me without really knowing me (such as things that I am allergic to) and because the gift giver was very lazy. Good gifts, even if they weren't exactly my thing, are always appreciated because someone took the time and effort to search.

[JeenLeen]

I second the really good version of Chronicles of Narnia that Barnes & Noble sells. They also have some collections of Lewis' essays; I forget what the collections are called, but those might be more appreciated by your friend. And, honestly, could make a good discussion point for y'all if you like debating one another. (I had a reading group once where we read one pro-Christian and one anti-Christian or anti-religion book, rotating like that, and it was really fun and productive.)

On the idea of cool bound books: since your friend's background is Catholic (and especially if he is still Catholic), he might like a cool version of the essays of some class theologians. It's been a while since I thought of who the renown Catholic theologian-saints were, but guys like St. Anselm, St. Augustine, or St. Thomas Aquinas. There's also some pre-schism (i.e., from before the western Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church broke apart) theologians who he might enjoy, like St. John Chrysostom, St. Athanasius the Great, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Gregory the Theologian (also called St. Gregory Nazianzus). I haven't seen any awesomely-bound collections of their writings, but there's some cool books they've written.



The problem was he is a Christian form a very catholic family, I’m afraid that they may consider it some kind of occult symbolism behind the gift since the black sun is

How old is your friend? No need to actually answer, but this is why I ask: it sounds like y'all are post-college age (academic conference being where you met), and thus I assume he doesn't live with his parents. That being the case, if his parents would be concerned about the shirt, he probably knows well enough not to wear it around them. If he does live with his folks, you concern is more legitimate.

I'm a very religious person and would be very uncomfortable wearing something relating to another religion, but I'm also fairly geeky and would appreciate something alchemical symbol and not take any offense at it.

[S@tanicoaldo]

I'm a very religious person and would be very uncomfortable wearing something relating to another religion, but I'm also fairly geeky and would appreciate something alchemical symbol and not take any offense at it.

Besides, the main point is, the symbol is not religious or occult, it's a symbol of a game, your friend seems reasonable enough to know the difference between the two, unless he is also a conspiracy theory who thinks the esoteric games and comics are out to get our youth.

[Scarlet Knight]

Get him the White mana symbol; if anyone religious questions it, just say it reminded you of how Jesus is the Light of the World.

Another idea is to go to your local card store with a price in you head and ask if they have a single card in that range that he would play. Figure a T-shirt's about $20? You could get something nice for that.

[kyoryu]

I like the white shirt with the black symbol. It's pretty reciprocal, it's something he likes, and clearly *he* doesn't have an issue with white shirts, since he didn't think twice about getting you one.

[The Eye]

On the idea of cool bound books: since your friend's background is Catholic (and especially if he is still Catholic), he might like a cool version of the essays of some class theologians. It's been a while since I thought of who the renown Catholic theologian-saints were, but guys like St. Anselm, St. Augustine, or St. Thomas Aquinas. There's also some pre-schism (i.e., from before the western Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church broke apart) theologians who he might enjoy, like St. John Chrysostom, St. Athanasius the Great, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Gregory the Theologian (also called St. Gregory Nazianzus). I haven't seen any awesomely-bound collections of their writings, but there's some cool books they've written.

How old is your friend? No need to actually answer, but this is why I ask: it sounds like y'all are post-college age (academic conference being where you met), and thus I assume he doesn't live with his parents. That being the case, if his parents would be concerned about the shirt, he probably knows well enough not to wear it around them. If he does live with his folks, you concern is more legitimate.

I'm a very religious person and would be very uncomfortable wearing something relating to another religion, but I'm also fairly geeky and would appreciate something alchemical symbol and not take any offense at it.

But I don't believe in that, how can I give it as gift?

He doesn't live with his parents but he is constantly there (every single weekend) since his mother is sick, but I think he would constantly visit them anyway since he is a family guy kind of guy.

But it's not an religious or alchemical symbol but it can be interpreted as such by some people.

[kyoryu]

But I don't believe in that, how can I give it as gift?

Honestly, that's why it's a good gift.

You *don't* believe in it, but you know *he does*. That shows that you're thinking about *him* as a person, and what he'd like, and shows that you have respect for his beliefs (or at least the fact that he believes them), even though they're not yours.

That means a LOT to people.

[Knaight]

Honestly, that's why it's a good gift.

You *don't* believe in it, but you know *he does*. That shows that you're thinking about *him* as a person, and what he'd like, and shows that you have respect for his beliefs (or at least the fact that he believes them), even though they're not yours.

That means a LOT to people.

It doesn't just show that you have respect for his beliefs. Given the actual context of a lot of these writings, and what they tend to say about people who don't believe, it's less a gift that symbolizes respect and more a gift that symbolizes submission. It's roughly equivalent to the other guy giving The Eye a copy of The God Delusion, albeit with a much better chance that the recipient at least likes the book.

[Scarlet Knight]

It doesn't just show that you have respect for his beliefs. Given the actual context of a lot of these writings, and what they tend to say about people who don't believe, it's less a gift that symbolizes respect and more a gift that symbolizes submission. It's roughly equivalent to the other guy giving The Eye a copy of The God Delusion, albeit with a much better chance that the recipient at least likes the book.

No, no, no. I could not disagree more. I, as a Catholic, would never think that it was "submission" to give an atheist friend a book written by an atheist.

Do I misunderstand you, and you're saying those specific books have passages that speak ill of non-believers and to choose different ones?


So, I have this... Friend? Well I'm not really sure if he really is my friend since I kind of have this Love-hate relationship with him, he is really nice don't get me wrong but we are just too different...
He is fan of sports - I hate sports...
What do you guys think? I need help.

If the book doesn't work, sports fans are very easy to get shirts for. Find out his favorite team (many fans follow a team in several sports & a college alma mater) & get him a shirt or hat. Or even to go back to books, most teams have a book entitled " The History of {insert team here}"

[Knaight]

No, no, no. I could not disagree more. I, as a Catholic, would never think that it was "submission" to give an atheist friend a book written by an atheist.

Do I misunderstand you, and you're saying those specific books have passages that speak ill of non-believers and to choose different ones?

What about a book openly hostile to Catholicism and Catholics in particular? That's a closer analog to the content of some of these specific books, and it's that content which makes the books more symbolic of submission than respect.

[Scarlet Knight]

I am not a theologian and have not read all the essays from all 7 saints. Since you use the word "some" I guess you are familiar with at least a portion of them.

Which, then, would you avoid and which essays would be fine (or with which you are unsure of having disrespectful passages) ?

[The Eye]

End up going with the white t-shirt and black sun and hoping he has no idea it may be a nazi symbol.

I also bought a book for him, Vathek by William Beckford, since I just found out we both want to read it, apparently there is a whole social media about books called good reads, awesome place to find a gift, now we can read it together and talk about it.

Thanks for the help guys.