Question: Languages

[Desteplo]

I keep hearing people talk about "I learned elvish"
-is there a written language for any other dnd races?

[Millstone85]

You should read page 123 of the PHB.

Unless you mean people in real life have learned elvish, like others have learned klingon. Then I don't know.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I keep hearing people talk about "I learned elvish"
-is there a written language for any other dnd races?

Most of them in fact. I think (but AFB right now) that there's a whole list, including examples of the alphabets at the back of the PHB.

[JackPhoenix]

Tolkien, being an linguistic professor, created complete languages for his elves. There have been some attempts to create "real world" languages for D&D, but, as far as I know, nothing comparable to Tolkien's work.

[Unoriginal]

I keep hearing people talk about "I learned elvish"
-is there a written language for any other dnd races?

There is no constructed language for them, like what Tolkien did for his elves, but in-universe most of the species's languages have a written form.

[Naanomi]

The monster manual also has some more languages in it beyond what is in the PHB... even including that though I think there are only 7 different alphabets shared by the 35 or so spoken languages

[DragonSorcererX]

I'm no linguist, but I think the easiest way would be something like this:

Common - Spoken Language: English/Your Native Language, Writting System: The one used for the language you are using in real life with the kind of letters you are using.

Elvish - Spoken Language: People seem to suggest French (what if you are French?), Writting System: The one used for French in real life but with the Elvish Script: Sample Alphabet in the page 123 on the PHB.

And so on...

[Âmesang]

Me being me I have a habit of having characters learn additional human languages beyond just Common (because if Common was all there was than why not just call it "Human…ish?").

Besides Common (Calant dialect) and Elvish my current character also has Alzhedo, Chondathan, and Illuskan… and may, in the future, learn either Netherese or Loross, Druidic (due to a recovered tome), or Seldruin (Elven High Magic language).

……granted I play in a very loose and easy group so I guarantee you none of those human languages will ever come into play unless I make mention of them. :smallannoyed:

[Estrillian]

Me being me I have a habit of having characters learn additional human languages beyond just Common (because if Common was all there was than why not just call it "Human…ish?").

Yeah the idea of "Common" always bothers me, even if it is convenient. Racial languages are just a weird thing.

I generally assume that the regional variants are dialects, with greater or lesser degrees of mutual intelligibility, plus a trade pidgin that everyone can speak (the canonical common). Naturally this is an excuse for bad accents a lot of the time from players. The same being true of non-human languages. For example the ancient dwarves of Tyar-Besil speak a dialect almost unintelligible to a modern Dwarvish speaker.

In other games I've gone a lot further, and had actually plausible language trees, including those for dead languages, useful when one is trying to translate a document from one dead speech you don't speak, using knowledge of another, but I am not sure that feels D&Dish

[Millstone85]

Elvish - Spoken Language: People seem to suggest French (what if you are French?)Then you use English, duh. :smalltongue:

More seriously, I am French and one of the first things I was taught about English is that it is "musical", a roller coaster of intonations, unlike our own boring "flat" language. So the idea of English players picturing Elvish as French is very odd to me. Then again, if you ask us what the language of love is, we say it is obviously Italian, so perceptions are weird like that.


I think there are only 7 different alphabets shared by the 35 or so spoken languagesHow about this?

1) Treat the PHB's "scripts" as trade languages.
Celestial: Main trade language of the Upper Planes.
Common: Main trade language of the Material Plane's surface.
Draconic: Main trade language of prehistoric times.
Dwarvish: Main trade language of the Inner Planes.
Elvish: Main trade language of the Feywild and the Underdark.
Infernal: Main trade language of the Lower Planes.

2) Acknowledge that they are only called that way by humans, both in real life and in-universe.

3) Go into more details on a character's spoken languages as the story demands. If you learned Elvish in the Underdark, high and wood elves will understand you but will also be more likely to distrust you.

[Naanomi]

The languages in DnD make a bit of sense to me in the planar context... Celestial, Infernal, Primordial, Slaad, Abyssal, Draconic, Fey, Modron, Deepspeech... huge populations of creatures are born knowing those languages. No reason to suspect language drift or regional variance, and accents would be an inborn trait, not a cultural one.

The 'Prime' languages are a bit messier, but we do have immortals using them, and sporadic contact between extraplanar populations might have a standardizing effect on the language... especially through the racial Gods and their petitioners (if clerics have a good authority on the dialect of Elven spoken in elf-heaven, good reason to stick to that!). I assume that most 'prime' languages are built based on planar languages (dwarves is based in giant which is derived from primordial), which may be a stabilizing factor as well

[Ninja_Prawn]

Elvish - Spoken Language: People seem to suggest French

I blame Chris Perkins. He's got this 'seductive French woman' voice that he uses for drow, which seems to have become the standard.

[Unoriginal]

More seriously, I am French and one of the first things I was taught about English is that it is "musical", a roller coaster of intonations, unlike our own boring "flat" language. So the idea of English players picturing Elvish as French is very odd to me. Then again, if you ask us what the language of love is, we say it is obviously Italian, so perceptions are weird like that.

Uh. I'm a French native speaker, and I don't think I've ever heard English described as "musical". It's more "fluid" than French, sure, in the way it flows, but "musical"?

[Ninja_Prawn]

It's more "fluid" than French, sure, in the way it flows, but "musical"?

It's funny, because Anglophones view French as fluid and musical, with the way the words all run together and so many of the consonants are soft or unvoiced...

I think it might say more about the meaning of 'music' than it does about the languages.

[Oxydeur]

Funny, as a french i always pictured elvish with a more italian feel.
And i use english sounds for gnomish (given all gnomes have in common with Tolkien's hobbit who are very british...)

[Unoriginal]

It's funny, because Anglophones view French as fluid and musical, with the way the words all run together and so many of the consonants are soft or unvoiced...

I think it might say more about the meaning of 'music' than it does about the languages.

What do you mean by "the way the words all run together"?

[Ninja_Prawn]

What do you mean by "the way the words all run together"?

It's hard to explain... I think it goes back to Millstone was saying about French being "flat". The consistency of the tone makes it harder to tell where one word ends and the next starts, maybe?

[Naanomi]

I use Italian/Latin for Elvish; mostly because I use elvish as the common 'magic user language' and Latin fits that for me.

For other languages, I use English for common (with lots of regional accents); Russian/Hebrew for Dwarves; Swedish for Gnomes. My 'giant language' and Primordeal is Arabic-y (mostly because of Genie), and my Draconic is Korean. Orcish is vaguely German, and Goblinese is more guttural and animalistic, not based on a real language, though sometimes gets a 'pan-Asian' vibe from hobgoblins. Fey is Gaelic-ish.

I tend not to equate planar languages (infernal, celestial, abyssal, deep-speech, etc) with real languages, keeping them more 'alien'. Monster/animal languages the same, mostly because I notice people trying to use Native American or African Tribal sounds for them and the whole thing always comes out a bit racist for my tastes.

[Nifft]

As a guy who speaks American...

In one long-running campaign, I wanted three distinct human areas, each of which originated after the fall of a great empire ~2k years ago. So, the main human area Common tongue was French (and also the lingua franca of trade), and the two nearby big human areas spoke Spanish & Italian. (The Old Imperial tongue was Latin.)

This made names for human cities & NPCs really distinct, and throwing in sneaky historical references was pretty easy. Also, artifacts from the Old Empire were naturally important-sounding, because they were named in Latin.

But it meant that I never even considered using French or Italian for Elvish.

[Âmesang]

So as a follow up to my previous post… is Common different across the various material planes (Oerth, Toril, Krynn, &c.), or are they coincidentally the same?

I mean, I expect it to be different due to each having their own linguistic history……

……but then when you're off world and dealing with more supernatural creatures that just so happen to speak "Common," well …which Common are they speaking? :smalleek: Though I suppose it's often moot when so many of those same creatures can use tongues at will.

[Naanomi]

The general conceit is that 'common' is a group of dialects of the planar 'cant' spoken across the planes (particularly the outer Planes, but very especially in Sigil). They remain similar enough to communicate between them, though sometimes the regional 'accent' is pretty bad (especially on planes with little extraplanar contact; like Athas)

[Millstone85]

which Common are they speaking?I was going to say the Common of the Outlands, but Naanomi essentially beat me to it.

I have got a similar question. Where does Undercommon come from?

In 4e, Undercommon didn't exist, but all aberrations were related to the Far Realm and their Deep Speech was said to have been given a written form by the drow when they met in the Underdark, hence the Elvish script. Most drow, however, did not know Deep Speech.

In 5e, Undercommon is back, is known by drow in addition to Elvish, and both languages use the same script. Deep Speech is there too, but doesn't have any written form. Many aberrations speak it, as well as Undercommon.

So... Can Undercommon these days be considered a mix of Deep Speech and Elvish? I would like that.

[Puh Laden]

I was going to say the Common of the Outlands, but Naanomi essentially beat me to it.

I have got a similar question. Where does Undercommon come from?

In 4e, Undercommon didn't exist, but all aberrations were related to the Far Realm and their Deep Speech was said to have been given a written form by the drow when they met in the Underdark, hence the Elvish script. Most drow, however, did not know Deep Speech.

In 5e, Undercommon is back, is known by drow in addition to Elvish, and both languages use the same script. Deep Speech is there too, but doesn't have any written form. Many aberrations speak it, as well as Undercommon.

So... Can Undercommon these days be considered a mix of Deep Speech and Elvish? I would like that.

The dark elves just wanted to be cool so Undercommon is just Elvish but words with the Elvish equivalent of "c" and words that end with equivalent of "s" replace them with "k" and "z" respectively. :P

[Waterdeep Merch]

Then you use English, duh. :smalltongue:

More seriously, I am French and one of the first things I was taught about English is that it is "musical", a roller coaster of intonations, unlike our own boring "flat" language. So the idea of English players picturing Elvish as French is very odd to me. Then again, if you ask us what the language of love is, we say it is obviously Italian, so perceptions are weird like that.

This is all immensely interesting. As an American lingual nut, I've been trying to invent a fantasy language using something similar to a French accent. I noticed that what I came up with didn't quite have the rhythm I was looking for, with careful crescendos and lilts, so I had to invent a whole emphasis structure that was closer to English. I thought I was just running aground on ideas and was defaulting back to my native tongue.

[Naanomi]

I was going to say the Common of the Outlands, but Naanomi essentially beat me to it.

I have got a similar question. Where does Undercommon come from?

In 4e, Undercommon didn't exist, but all aberrations were related to the Far Realm and their Deep Speech was said to have been given a written form by the drow when they met in the Underdark, hence the Elvish script. Most drow, however, did not know Deep Speech.

In 5e, Undercommon is back, is known by drow in addition to Elvish, and both languages use the same script. Deep Speech is there too, but doesn't have any written form. Many aberrations speak it, as well as Undercommon.

So... Can Undercommon these days be considered a mix of Deep Speech and Elvish? I would like that.
Undercommon is basically the 'slave tongue' of the Underdark originally, and is used as a trade language mostly because drow get uppity about non-elves speaking elvish... it is a mixture of drow and gnome and a little bit of deepspeech and gith... probably with regional smatterings of whatever slave race is around the area

Historically there is also an 'undersea common' but looks like they gave up on that and have all the aquatic races speaking aquan as a common tongue

[Millstone85]

Undercommon is basically the 'slave tongue' of the Underdark originally, and is used as a trade language mostly because drow get uppity about non-elves speaking elvish...That's a cool bit of lore.


it is a mixture of drow and gnome and a little bit of deepspeech and gith... probably with regional smatterings of whatever slave race is around the areaOkay so Deep Speech and drow Elvish are in there, but Deep Speech not as much as the languages of slaves.

Have drow really had many gith slaves? Bought from illithids, perhaps. Or maybe the slaves of both races traded with each other.

[Naanomi]

That's a cool bit of lore.

Okay so Deep Speech and drow Elvish are in there, but Deep Speech not as much as the languages of slaves.

Have drow really had many gith slaves? Bought from illithids, perhaps. Or maybe the slaves of both races traded with each other.
Slaves get passed around the Underdark. Even if the gith themselves are not enslaved by drow, a svirfneblin could have spent years living with Gith in an illithid tribe before being captured by Kuo-toa and then sold to the drow slave pits and so on... the 'slave tongue' takes on characteristics from all of that; as well as from conversations and overheard snippets from their Masters (so deepspeech, amongst others)

[Millstone85]

I liked the idea of the drow having their own interest in Deep Speech, especially in FR with some of them worshipping Ghaunadaur in places where they think Lolth can't see them. Sometimes whole shared cities with aboleths, even. And too much Deep Speech probably isn't good for the humanoid brain, so I could see them coming up with an intermediary language. And yes, I was taking telepathy into account. Better leave that to the thralls and have a conversation through them, when possible.

But a slave tongue, spoken in the harsh places between the realms of various master races? That makes for a far better tale.

My goolock knows Common, Undercommon and Deep Speech, which she actually learned in reverse order. She was basically a feral child when all she heard was Deep Speech, so it is not exactly something she converses in. Mostly, it is her spellcasting language. I don't know if Undercommon will ever be useful, but at least the language has its own tragic backstory.

[DragonSorcererX]

I blame Chris Perkins. He's go this 'seductive French woman' voice that he uses for drow, which seems to have become the standard.

I remember this one, at the time it seemed to fit pretty well...

[Naanomi]

But a slave tongue, spoken in the harsh places between the realms of various master races? That makes for a far better tale.
It probably says something sad about Svirfneblin culture that enough of them have been slaves at one point in time that the slave language is their official second language, known by virtually everyone in their race... I suppose some might have learned it for trade purposes, but I have my doubts

[Laserlight]

What do you mean by "the way the words all run together"?

Elision, I expect, although you get that in English as well--wanna hava cuppa coffee? or Mungry, less gweet ("I'm hungry, let's go eat"), for example.

[Luccan]

I feel the "running-together-ness" of any language just happens with native speakers (and probably long time speakers who learn it later). We know where the words separate, so our brains can translate a little slurring and running together of words. On the other hand, languages with particularly hard consonants or that use pauses differently could have the opposite problem, where a single word could sound like two or more.

[RSP]

For some reason, I've always pictured Elves as having German accents (which didn't change with Perkins statement of Drow having French accents - which may actually go back to RA Salvatore, thou I'm not certain of this - as the Drow probably have a different accent than surface elves).

As for Common throughout the different worlds, I'd imagine it's the same everywhere, as the Gods/Celestials/Fiends probably taught the first sentient beings on any given world this same tongue for communication purposes, prior to any "native" languages developing culturally.

But this is just a guess.

[Beelzebubba]

More seriously, I am French and one of the first things I was taught about English is that it is "musical", a roller coaster of intonations, unlike our own boring "flat" language. So the idea of English players picturing Elvish as French is very odd to me. Then again, if you ask us what the language of love is, we say it is obviously Italian, so perceptions are weird like that.

If you want 'musical', you want Norwegian.

It's so damn happy, melodic, with a very rhythmic quality.

It sounds like it could be a 60's Broadway Musical.

[2D8HP]

I prefer the "Swedish" of:
You may need to understand spoken English, as becomes clear

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1ReNyvUeeD4

[Naanomi]

Looking through my last campaign notes, I guess I actually used Polynesian words for my elven cities