Help with a Bard College and build.

[Bloodgruve]

Hey GitP,

I'll start by saying I'm new to 5e, years of 3.5 under my belt though. I have the opportunity to play a Bard in this edition due to a TPK.... So I'm trying to pick a school. Our DM is cool with the UA and playtest material for this so Glamour, Whispers and Sword are open.

Our party looks like a Sorcerer, Fighter, Cleric, Ranger and myself as a Bard.

We're lacking in the rogue department so I'd like to fill that role.

I also like to have a decent and dependable way to do damage in combat. I'm leaning to Sword or Valor but I've been reading that Lore is potentially the best school.

We are starting off at 6th level. The builds I'm really looking at are;
V Human, Lore, Maxing CHA, picking up Eldrich Blast and focusing on spells.
-or-
V Human, Sword or Valor, Maxing DEX and dual weilding.


1. Are either of these a clear winner?

2. Can a Lore CHA build with EB do respectable damage?

3. The dumb question.. Is there a way to make dual weild Whips work on a melee bard? Guessing this wouldn't be optimized but it's more about form then function here.


Input is much appreciated,

Blood~

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I've just hit level 5 with a Lore Bard.

It seems the Valor Bard gets a couple cool melee options, the Lore Bard gets a couple more spells.

Which sounds like more fun to you?

[djreynolds]

You can live on EB as your main attack.

I would take 4 level of Lore bard, and grab 2 levels of warlock for the EB invocations.

[Corran]

1. Are either of these a clear winner?
Definitely not the twf one.


2. Can a Lore CHA build with EB do respectable damage?
Yes, but why do so? Do you know that your group will be missing in the damage department? Moreover, to do it you will probably want to spend 2 levels in warlock, and that delays your bard levels so your class features and the higher levels spells. Besides, being a fullcaster, means that there will be plenty of rounds where you wont just be using your action with EB (eldritch blast),so why bother with that investment?


3. The dumb question.. Is there a way to make dual weild Whips work on a melee bard? Guessing this wouldn't be optimized but it's more about form then function here.
Well, yeah, you can. You need the dual wielder feat and whip proficiency (technically you dont need the last one, but well, you do). It wouldn't be a strong build obviously.


Conslusion: Play a rogue. It seems to me that you want to dual wield and to do damage. Plus you want to cover the rogue role. Ehhh.... so, play the actual class. Pick up one or two musical instrument proficiencies and even performance ifyou want from a background to get some bardiness. You can even play a swashbuckler (SCAG) so that you have even more reasons to go for a good charisma and thus fill your ''bardic role'' even better.

[Arkhios]

I'd like to point out another possibility. College of Whispers is very much rogue-like. If you want to add a bit sinister touch, depict him or her as a follower of Vecna or other god of secrets.

Thieves' tools is relatively easy to gain proficiency with via background or with the Skilled feat. As a bard you even get Expertise too.

But even if you didn't take proficiency, maxing dexterity and relying on the Jack of all Trades feature would still provide a rather good bonus on checks with Thieves' tools.

[Citan]

Hey GitP,

I'll start by saying I'm new to 5e, years of 3.5 under my belt though. I have the opportunity to play a Bard in this edition due to a TPK.... So I'm trying to pick a school. Our DM is cool with the UA and playtest material for this so Glamour, Whispers and Sword are open.

Our party looks like a Sorcerer, Fighter, Cleric, Ranger and myself as a Bard.

We're lacking in the rogue department so I'd like to fill that role.

I also like to have a decent and dependable way to do damage in combat. I'm leaning to Sword or Valor but I've been reading that Lore is potentially the best school.

We are starting off at 6th level. The builds I'm really looking at are;
V Human, Lore, Maxing CHA, picking up Eldrich Blast and focusing on spells.
-or-
V Human, Sword or Valor, Maxing DEX and dual weilding.


1. Are either of these a clear winner?

2. Can a Lore CHA build with EB do respectable damage?

3. The dumb question.. Is there a way to make dual weild Whips work on a melee bard? Guessing this wouldn't be optimized but it's more about form then function here.


Input is much appreciated,

Blood~
Hi!
Hmmm.

First let's address the elephant in the room: is UA plain allowed or something that can be negociated? If so, College of Swords will totally fit your bill: pretty decent AC, respectable damage and mobility.

Otherwise you have several ways to go at it. Quick breakdown.
Pure Lore Bard
a) Pure Lore Bard caster with melee option: pick Booming Blade and quarterstaff Shillelagh: you will deal pretty decent damage, but very frail: only light armor proficiency.
b) Pure Lore Bard caster with ranged option: pick Magic Stone to use with a sling or Eldricht Blast (best option if DM allows: pick Magic Stone first, then swap for Eldricht Blast at 10th level).
c) DEX Lore Bard caster: pick Mage Armor with Booming Blade as a rapier. At least you will have 16-17 starting AC (let's say 17 because you use first ASI

Pure Valor Bard
a) S&B: pick Athletics Expertise with decent STR (12+), go either STR or DEX build depending on whether you want very high DEX save or rather balanced saves, or you want to be also good at ranged attacks or not. Pick Shield Master feat. Bonus action Shove, then Extra Attack will be your usual tactic.
b) Dual-wielding: go DEX build, grab Dual Wielder feat, you are set.

Multiclass
a) pure DEX melee: Lore Bard 2 / Swashbuckler Rogue 3 / Fighter 1 (start): go dual-rapier for now, then take Dual Wielder as Rogue 4 to get your dual-whip concept, then up Lore Bard up as you progress until you get Haste and optional Booming Blade. Anyways, you are extremely mobile with high Initiative.
b) pure STR/CHA Booming Blade: Fighter 1 / Lore Bard 4 / Warlock 1: STR build, go heavy armor + shield for great protection, pick Shield Master as Bard 4 ASI. Fall back on Eldricht Blast when melee is not an option.
c) DEX mobile gish: Bard 2 / Rogue 2 / Warlock 2: you start with Booming Blade and Mage Armor invocation, short-rest slots for anything you want and great mobility: many options for further leveling depending on your starting CHA and wishes for your character.

Personally I'd go either pure College of Swords if available or the Multiclass a) option: the most versatile (you don't get Booming Blade but you get 1-2 attacks per turn, great mobility and good defense), makes your concept online immediately, and in spite of being split in 3 classes will grow in power in a pretty decent fashion (Action Surge is great whether you use it on spells or cantrips ;)).

[Specter]

A basic build:

1) Take the Criminal Background
2) Go Lore Bard for skills
3) Pick Eldritch Blast as a Magical Secret

If you really want damage, I suggest leveled spells such as Fireball or Lightning Bolt. But you should focus on support, your party members will thank you for it.

[Bloodgruve]

Thank you all for the input!


Definitely not the twf one.

Conslusion: Play a rogue. It seems to me that you want to dual wield and to do damage.

I apologize for not being more clear in my first post. I did pick the bard for support and spell casting first and formost.

Generally I like to play support characters but I really like to have even one way to consistently deal some damage.

If I go Lore Bard I'll be able to grab Eldritch Blast.


More questions,
1. with Lore Bard Variant Human should I then pump CHA with Dex and Con as secondary stats?

2. Should I grab feats or increase stats?

3. To skill monkey what are the important Feats, Skills and Tools to pick up?


TY again,

Blood~

[Specter]

1. with Lore Bard Variant Human should I then pump CHA with Dex and Con as secondary stats?

2. Should I grab feats or increase stats?

3. To skill monkey what are the important Feats, Skills and Tools to pick up?

1-2) Boost CHA to at least 18, then pick a feat. Many things are good, like Tough, Resilient CON (to keep concentration and improve ypur CON saves) and Actor. Boosting DEX is tertiary.

3) The Lore Bard gives you all could want: 3 bonus skills, Expertise, Cutting Words to reduce enemy checks and Enhance Ability to give yourself advantage. You should be fine.

[JellyPooga]

I'd probably advise against Eldritch Blast as one of your Magical Secrets (Additional or otherwise); there's much better spells available and if you really want it, it's available with a Feat. Without Agonizing Blast, which would require a Warlock dip, it's just not that much better than other cantrips.

For what you want though, Lore Bard sounds right up your alley.

[JAL_1138]

A Vhuman valor bard (starting stats 8 16 14 8 10 16) with Sharpshooter (and possibly Crossbow Expert at 4, my preferred combo) can do respectable damage. A level of Fighter to start, for Archery style and Con save proficiency, will be a good bump in average damage and help keep your spells up. I would go archery over TWF.

Or just take two levels of Warlock for Agonizing Blast on a Lore Bard; it works well for reliable damage and takes less investment, plus gets you the Lore Bard goodies of Extra Magical Secrets (which will be pushed back to character level 8, since they kick in at Bard level 6) and Cutting Words. Warlock 2 also gets you a couple of short-rest spell slots for low-level spells, which is nifty.

EDIT: A level of Life Cleric on a Lore Bard can make for a great healer as well, worth looking at if you want to play support.