PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Homebrew Redux: The Legionnaire try 2, class boogaloo



Gnomes2169
2017-06-09, 10:34 AM
The Legionnaire


ďSurvivors do not mourn together. They each mourn alone, even when in the same place. Grief is the most solitary of all feelings. Grief isolates, and every ritual, every gesture, every embrace, is a hopeless effort to break through that isolation.
None of it works. The forms crumble and dissolve.
To face death is to stand alone.Ē
-Toll the Hounds, Malazan Book of the Fallen

Not all beings are afraid of Death. For the broken, it is the final comfort, an end to all loss and pain. For others, it is a price to pay for glory and honor, a necessary sacrifice to make their mark on history, and a chance for immortality. But then there are those for whom Death and its heralds are masters, and they know the hollow promises of peace and immortality are but the dreams of a fool.

These are the individuals who form the ranks of the endless Legions, a collection of warriors, priests, mages and assassins that has served the natural order since time's dawning. While gods have come and gone, the Legion has endured, their soldiers serving to bring the ultimate balance to life's rampant growth by trimming it wherever it grows wild. Their loyalty belongs first and foremost to their cause, the gods of death that deign to lead them, and that greatest evil of all; Necessity. And oh, but has that banner soaked the earth in blood, time and time again.

Children of Grief The call of the Legionnaire is one that most will thankfully never hear, for it is a cry of desperation and utmost loss. Only those who are desperate for meaning, companionship or purpose would dare heed it's mournful cry, and yet for those broken souls this final position remains. The chance to serve Death, to bring about endings and to serve at the beck and call of the most terrible and necessary force of nature, is an offer for the forsaken. For some, this service is a final chance for redemption, for others, it is the last chance to make a mark on the world that will hopefully matter. Regardless of the reason, the soldiers of the Legion find new purpose, and a new cause to dedicate the rest of their life to.

Sworn to Death To join the ranks of the Legion is to swear an oath to Death itself. Whether it be at the behest and guidance of a patron deity, or a wordless offer from the indifferent universe itself, a Legionnaire must become beholden to the realms of the forgotten and its denizens. While this grants power, it is also a heavy cross to bear. No man should have to dream of the endless deaths of the companions who came before him, or know that the armor he dons is forged from the bones of Legionnaires who failed in their service. Only the strongest of minds can withstand this constant barrage, and the foolish swiftly fall to unyielding madness. But for the clever? Oh, for them every nightmare is a chance to learn, every success and failure a look into the weaknesses of their enemy, to train the focus required to land blows with perfect precision in the heart of combat and to actually discover the secrets of the world around them.

Because of this, it is known that to be a Legionnaire is to be counted among the most clever and learned people. For a stupid Legionnaire is one that will prove their helplessness and die far, far sooner than their companions.

Reaper of the Legion As part of the pact made with the powers beyond the veil, a Legionnaire agrees to gather to them fragments of the souls of those that they kill. For gods and other lieutenants of death, this gives a tally to tell them how useful their tool was in life, and thus allows them to grant an appropriate award once the Legionnaire's time in the world is done. However, for the Legionnaire, this holds a far more somber and, sometimes, humbling meaning. For every soul demands that it be complete when it crosses into the next world, and when their reaper dies, these souls gather for one last judgement of their slayer.

For every innocent slain and every unjust act shall the Legionnaire be held personally accountable, every act of valor and mercy shall they be lauded, and every mistake and failure made known. And the dead who bestow this judgement shall hold nothing back. After all, why should they? They are already dead, what reward or punishment could be delivered that is greater than one final swell of joy, or a blow of utmost regret and sorrow? The dead have no reason to lie, not to themselves or to any other, and so heroism will be rewarded by the villains, while villainy is damned by the heroes. Such is the irony of life and death.

Not every Legionnaire knows that this is their fate once they pass beyond the gates of the dead, and not every one cares. While many strive to be heroes, to serve the will of their gods and to do what is right, there are almost just as many, if not more, who are driven mad with their authority, and so think that they are beyond the judgement of those that they slay. To these individuals there is one final retribution, for the universe does not care what they or their gods might say, those who serve the Legion must face their final judgement, and suffer justice one last time.

In the end, one can only hope that they do not fill the abyss with their list of crimes.

LevelProficiencyFeatureBone ArmorBone Blade Enhancement Bonus
1+2Bone Armor (2/day), Bone Blade+2--
2+2War Trance+2ó
3+2Sworn Legion feature+2ó
4+2Ability Score Increase+2ó
5+3Bone Armor (3/day), Extra Attack+2ó
6+3Runed bone+2+1
7+3Bone armor (3/day), Retaliatory Strike+2+1
8+3Ability Score increase+2+1
9+4Bone Armor (4/day), Graven Tutors, Sworn Legion feature+2+1
10+4Intellect Fortress+3+1
11+4Reaperís Implement (int)+3+2
12+4Ability Score increase+3+2
13+5Bone armor (5/day), Sworn Legion feature+3+2
14+5Haunted Sight+3+2
15+5Sworn Legion feature+3+2
16+5Ability Score increase+3+3
17+6Bone Armor (6/day), Reaperís Implement (2xInt)+4+3
18+6Graven Tutors, Imbued Bone+4+3
19+6Ability Score Increase+4+3
20+6Bone Armor (Unlimited), Reaperís Gale+4+3

Building a Legionnaire
Legionnaires are the soldiers of Death itself, and as such they are often a humorless, broken or otherwise less-than-mortal bunch when compared to their adventuring companions. Despite this they still are living beings, and while even their mere presence can be unsettling to normal mortals, they do still feel, have motivations and goals, and quite possibly have dreams beyond the duty and powers to which they have sworn themselves.

Think about what kinds of quirks having sworn yourself to the service of a God of Death (or to the phenomena of Death itself) could have on your character. Perhaps you are a fatalist, always expecting the next fight to be your last. Perhaps your laughter is hollow, joyless, the mirth never lighting up your eyes. Perhaps you never take prisoners, your duty to reap a terrible toll having killed mercy in your heart long ago. Or on the other hand, the knowledge of life's worth brings you to tears whenever you are finally forced to shed blood. Whatever you come up with, keep it in mind while you role-play your character.

Quick build
Legionnaires are powerful and talented warriors who's talents harden their bodies and minds. First, make either Strength or Dexterity your highest ability score, followed by Intelligence and thirdly Constitution. Finally, choose the Soldier background.

Class features
As a Legionnaire you gain the following class features.

Hit points
Hit dice: 1d10 per Legionnaire level.
Hit Points at 1st level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at higher levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per Legionnaire level after 1st

Proficiency
Armor: Light armor, Medium armor and shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, battleaxe, longsword, morning star, rapier, war hammer
Tools: None

Saving Throws: Constitution, Intelligence
Skills: Choose any three from Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, History, Medicine, Perception, Religion, Stealth, Survival

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment provided by your background:
(a) Scale male or (b) leather armor and a shortbow and 20 arrows
(a) A longbow and 40 arrows or (b) A shield and 20 gold
(a)A Dungeoneer's pack or (b) an Explorer's pack
4 daggers and a set of dice (knucklebones)
Alternately, you may start the game with 5d4x10 gold, in addition to the equipment provided by your background.

Multi-classing
To multi-class as a Legionnaire, you must have a minimum of 13 Strength or Dexterity, and you must have a minimum of 13 Intelligence.

Bone Armor
Starting at level 1, you are able to manifest a layer of chitin above your more mundane armor, providing you with a flexible layer of protection. You may don this carapace as a bonus action and it lasts for 1 minute. While your bone armor is active you gain a +2 bonus to your armor class and the whisper of spirits imbued in the bone gives you advantage on Intelligence and Wisdom checks. This bonus to your armor class increases as you level up, to +3 at level 10 and +4 at level 17.
You may use this ability twice, gaining an additional uses of this ability at levels 5, 9, 13, 17 and then 20 (where it becomes unlimited uses). You regain all expended uses after completing a long rest.

Bone Blade
Beginning at level 1, you are able to manifest a razor-sharp growth of bone that takes the shape of a weapon or claws. As an object interaction you may create your bone blade, choosing whether you manifest it as a 1-handed finesse melee weapon with a d8 damage die, or as a 2-handed heavy weapon with a 2d6 damage die. You choose whether your bone blade deals slashing or piercing damage when you manifest it. Regardless of which form you use, your bone blade has a reach of 5 feet. You are proficient with this weapon.
If you are attuned to a magical weapon, (such as, for example, a Firebrand,) your bone blade gains all magical properties that are part of that magical weapon, as long as those properties do not recharge at a time of day or night, on a long or short rest, or add to the weapon's attack or damage bonuses. These are in addition to the enchantment bonuses your Bone Blade will eventually gain. If you are attuned to multiple weapons, you choose one weapon for your bone blade to gain the properties of each time you manifest it. If you ever lose attunement to a weapon, your bone blade also loses all of the properties of that attuned weapon.
You may dismiss your bone blade as a free action, and it crumbles into dust if you ever let go of it. You may only have one bone blade at a time.

War Trance
Starting at level 2, you are able to enter a state of absolute focus, momentarily allowing you to land your strikes with uncanny accuracy. As a bonus action you may gain advantage on melee attack rolls until the beginning of your next turn.

Sworn Legion
Also at level 3 you select the Legion that you belong to, denoting your motivations and specialization. You can choose from any of the legions denoted at the end of this class. You gain additional features at levels 9, 13 and 15.

Ability Score increase
When you reach level 4, and then again at 8th, 12th, 16th and 19th level, you can choose one ability score to increase by 2, or two ability scores to increase by 1. This feature may not increase an ability score above 20.

Extra Attack
Beginning at level 5, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

Runed Bone
Starting at level 6, small runes of magic can be seen grafted on your weapons of bone. Your bone blade becomes magical and you gain a +1 bonus to your attack and damage rolls with it.
This bonus increases as you level up, becoming +2 at level 11 and +3 at level 16.

Retaliatory Strike
Starting at level 7 you are adept at taking advantage of any opening your enemies give to you, even if it puts you at risk. Whenever an enemy in your weaponís reach misses you with an attack, you may use your reaction to make an opportunity attack against them.

Graven Tutors
Starting at level 9, the spirits that you have reaped and bound to yourself begin to grant you insights into the nature of the world. You gain proficiency in one skill and two languages of your choice.
You gain proficiency in one additional skill and two additional languages at level 18.

Intellect Fortress
Beginning at level 10 you may add your Intelligence modifier (minimum 0) to all of your Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma saving throws. This does mean you add your Intelligence modifier to any Intelligence saving throw you make twice.

Reaperís Implement
Beginning at level 11, your bone blade begins to carry the essence of the veil in its edge, making it even more deadly to your foes. You may change the weapon damage of any attack you make with your Bone Blade into necrotic or radiant instead of its normal physical damage type, and you also increase any damage your blade does by your Intelligence modifier (minimum 0).
At level 17 you add double your Intelligence modifier to your bone bladeís damage instead.

Haunted Sight
Starting at level 14, your bone armor grants you enhanced sight as the spirits of those you have "collected" are used to see for you. Whenever you use your Bone Armor class feature, you gain Blindsight out to 10 feet.
Additionally, as a one minute long action, you may study a creature and discover up to three facts about it from the following list:
Is its CR higher or lower than your level?
Is it at full health, bloodied (1/2 max hp or less) or near death (1/4 max hp or less)?
What damage vulnerabilities does it have?
What damage resistances and immunities does it have?
How many years does it have until it dies of natural causes?
Is it diseased or poisoned, and if so what is the disease or poison?
Does the creature regenerate, and if so how is that regeneration overcome?
Is it possessed or was it possessed in the last year?

Imbued Bone
Starting at level 18, your bone armor wards you from the magic of your foes. Whenever you use your Bone Armor class feature, you gain resistance to damage from spells and magical sources (such as dragon breath weapons, beholder eye beams, magical ever-burning fire, etc).
If you are targeted by or within the area of effect for a spell, you may use your reaction to gain advantage on your saving throw against that spell. You may use this part of this class feature with or without your bone armor active.

Reaperís Gale
Upon reaching level 20, you become a walking monument to death itself. Whenever one of your attacks kills a creature, you may make an additional attack with any of your weapons and regain 2d6 lost hit points. You may gain any number of attacks from this ability.

The Bonehunters are a group of voluntary legionnaires. They are professional warriors who have sworn themselves to the deathly powers to give them abilities to hunt the living dead in all of their incarnations. Fearless, resilient to necromantic energies and tireless in their duty, this Legion calls only to those who would cleanse the world of the immortal and the unnatural, giving them a home and allies for as long as they serve. The bonehunters train their own in how to harness the weapons and power of death, creating true masters of their deadly art

LevelFeature
3Fighting Style, Mark for Death
9Embraced Mortality
13Withstand Death
15An End to Eternity

Fighting Style
Starting at level 3 you become more well versed in the use of your bone implements than any other Legionnaire. Choose one of the fighting styles to learn from the options below. Once made this choice cannot be changed, and an option already taken cannot be selected again even if another source gives you access to the same fighting style:
[list] Dueling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.
Great Weapon Fighting: When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding in two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.

Mark for Death
Also starting at level 3, you may choose a creature within 60 feet that you can see to be marked as a bonus action. Until the marked creature dies or the end of your next short or long rest, this creature cannot use the Disengage action and after you make an opportunity attack against them you regain the use of your Reaction.
After using this ability, you cannot use it again until your target dies or until you finish a short or long rest.

Grim Idol
From level 9, your armored visage represents the finality of all things, and strips away the fear of death from you and your allies. While your bone armor is active you and allies within 10 feet of you who can see you are immune to the Frightened condition.

Withstand Death
Starting at level 13, your chosen profession and exposure to necromantic energies have given you unparalleled resilience to the attacks of your quarry. You gain immunity to Necrotic and Poison damage, and the Poisoned condition and diseases.

An End to Eternity
Starting at level 15, your strikes disrupt the lives of even immortal creatures. Melee weapon attacks you make ignore all damage resistance and immunities a creature might have, and any creature you damage with a melee weapon attack cannot be healed by any means for one round. If you reduce a creature to 0 hit points, you entrap a large fragment of their soul within yourself. Until you are slain or you relinquish this fragment, the creature cannot be resurrected by any spell other than Wish or natural reincarnation. Creatures such as a Vampire or Lich that resurrect themselves after being slain still reform as normal, but cannot use legendary actions until you relinquish the fragment you stole from them. Upon your death, all fragments gathered to you by this ability are relinquished.
Gods and other beings of their level are immune to this ability.

In their last, dying moments, some muderers, necromancers and their ilk are given an offer to atone, to divert their rightful punishment for faithful service. These are the souls assigned to the Punitive legion. A desperate, often unwilling, soldier corp, the members of the Punitive legion struggle like one with a sword of Damocles above their neck, refusing to fail and refusing to break, for dying before their task is accomplished is a failure of their vows, and the punishment awaiting them will not be diverted a second time. With such motivation, and no escape from their service possible, the Deathly Powers often abuse their authority over these poor souls, knowing that no matter what, their pawn must at least attempt the task, even if it proves impossible.

LevelFeature
3Arisen, Risen Resilience
9Unyielding
13Requiem
15Desperate Resolve

Arisen
Starting at level 3, your brush with death has given you reflexive resilience to being put down for any amount of time. You must only spend 5 feet of movement to stand up from being prone, and if you succeed on 3 death saving throws you immediately regain 1 hit point and may stand up.

Risen Resilience
Dying once has inured you to the whole experience. Also starting at level 3, you increase your maximum hit points by 1 for every Legionnaire level you possess.

Unyielding
Starting at level 9, the pressure of your penance gives you resilience to effects that would sway your mind. You gain immunity to the Frightened and Charmed conditions.

Requiem
Starting at level 13, you are able to take on the appearance of one who is already dead. As a 10 minute ritual, you re-open the mortal wound that caused you to make the pact with death in the first place, and you become still and seemingly lifeless. You can remain in this state for a month. You are conscious the entire time, aware of the area 60 feet around you but are blind and deaf beyond that, do not need to eat, sleep or breathe, and do not take damage if your body comes to harm from any source short of disintegration. After concentrating for a minute you can repair all damage that was dealt to your body, regaining all lost limbs and flesh, reverting all rot, and awakening at full hit points.
You must finish a long rest after awakening from this state before you can use Requiem again.

Desperate Resolve
Starting at level 15, your desperate drive to accomplish your goal hardens you to your mounting injuries, and makes you far heartier in the thick of combat. At the beginning of your turn if you have at least 1 hit point, but fewer hit points than your maximum, you may use your reaction to regain a number of hit points equal to 5 + your Intelligence modifier. You may only use this ability if there is a hostile creature that is not incapacitated or dead within 60 feet of you.


The legion of the Tallyman have one goal, and one goal alone; To reap the souls of the living. Whether they serve a good and just cause, or merely serve the Deathly Powers for the joy of the slaughter, a Tallyman has sworn their service in exchange for power, and the price for that power is the lives of others. Ultimately, the concept of mercy has been forgotten by the Tallyman, making them one of the most brutal and cold of all of the legions. Is it any wonder that this legion calls to so many madmen?

LevelFeature
3War's Tempo
9Path of Slaughter
13Unsettling Grin
15Aspect of the Reaper

War's Tempo
Starting at level 3, you are able to direct your ally's strikes to the most vulnerable point of your enemies. When an ally within 30 feet of you that can hear you makes an attack roll against a creature you can see, you may use your reaction to add 1d6 to your ally's attack roll. You must use this ability before discovering if your ally hit or missed.

Path of Slaughter
Starting at level 9, spilling the blood of your enemies invigorates you, and allows you to advance to your next field of slaughter that much faster. Whenever you reduce a creature's hit points to 0 with a melee weapon attack, you may immediately move up to 15 feet without provoking an opportunity attack. You may only move in this manner once per round.

Unsettling Grin
Starting at level 13, your facial expression gives warning to the dangerous beast that lays just behind your eyes. You have advantage on all intimidation rolls, and may add your Intelligence modifier to your roll whenever you use Intimidation to frighten a creature. Even when you are not trying to frighten anyone, your mere presence is enough to put others on guard.

Aspect of the Reaper
Starting at level 15, you exude an aura of supernatural horror that allows you to prey upon the weak who fall victim to it. Enemies who start their turn or move into a space within 15 feet of you for the first time on their turn must make a Wisdom saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier), becoming Frightened of you for 1 round on a failed saving throw. You add your proficiency bonus to damage rolls against creatures who are frightened of you.

Gnomes2169
2017-06-09, 10:35 AM
Post reserved, just in case... and good lord, I make a lot of classes that deal with blood, death and dying. There's something wrong with me, isn't there? D:

Sariel Vailo
2017-06-09, 12:24 PM
I bloody love it. It just oozes. Madman,doom driven seeking redemption,just uhhhhhhhhhh. So many fluffy characters i have who had no archetypes or classes that fit.now one thats fine

Scaileanna
2017-06-09, 01:18 PM
Post reserved, just in case... and good lord, I make a lot of classes that deal with blood, death and dying. There's something wrong with me, isn't there? D:
nah that's just life at its fullest and if i recall you planned a ghost/spirit back in the day maybe that one won't have blood in it

Gnomes2169
2017-06-09, 06:41 PM
I bloody love it. It just oozes. Madman,doom driven seeking redemption,just uhhhhhhhhhh. So many fluffy characters i have who had no archetypes or classes that fit.now one thats fine

Heh, thank you! That was sort of the goal with this one, and I still have more fluff to work into this thing. Hopefully I can balance it out so that your DM feels good about letting it be run in their game! :smallbiggrin:


nah that's just life at its fullest and if i recall you planned a ghost/spirit back in the day maybe that one won't have blood in it

I actually finished that one! The Wandering Spirit in my 5e Homebrew page is where that living spirit resides... and hey, no blood, so you're right there! Just... literally playing a dead man... The pattern holds true! :smallfrown:

But yeah, the reason for focusing on these dark themes is more that this is part of the "Blood, Bone and Spirit" series that I'm making than any lingering darkness in my psyche. I promise!

Ziegander
2017-06-09, 09:10 PM
Clarify Swift Strikes to ensure it reads that the unarmed attack is in addition to the action you're taking and other than that I am sold, man, this is a strong, evocative melee machine. Great work.

Gnomes2169
2017-06-10, 08:54 AM
Clarify Swift Strikes to ensure it reads that the unarmed attack is in addition to the action you're taking and other than that I am sold, man, this is a strong, evocative melee machine. Great work.

Clarified! Also, when you say strong, do you think it might be too strong, or at about the right level of strength?

And the last of the major fluff bits are complete. Huzzah for the fluffiness that is super depressing, yet somehow hopeful in a somber sort of way! :smallconfused:

Ziegander
2017-06-10, 11:39 AM
I think the strength level is where it needs to be for a melee class without extra attacks (2) or (3) and without spells. I'm of the opinion that, while very cool and interesting in this edition, Barbarians could use a more potent offense (aside from Great Weapon Master).

Gnomes2169
2017-06-11, 02:41 AM
I think the strength level is where it needs to be for a melee class without extra attacks (2) or (3) and without spells. I'm of the opinion that, while very cool and interesting in this edition, Barbarians could use a more potent offense (aside from Great Weapon Master).

Well, fair enough!

After having my DM do a cursory look at it, grammar mistakes and the like were fixed and Anatomical Precision became Eyes of the Reaper. As well, the Bonehunter's An End to Eternity no longer perma-gibs things like vampires and liches. Instead, it takes away their legendary actions. It also prevents normal creatures from veing resurrected until the Bonehunter dies or gives back their stolen soul fragment. It does nothing to gods or god-like beings, though.

Ziegander
2017-06-11, 04:54 PM
These are good changes, I think.

About the only thing I still have a minor gripe with is Bone Armor. Initial reaction is that it needs to grant resistance to damage like a Barbarian, but I appreciate you trying to offer something similar yet different. It's just... uninteresting. The mechanical strength is absolutely there. I'm sure this tanks as well or better than the Barb, but Barbarian rage also gives advantage to Strength checks and saves, and a small damage boost. There's a lot going on there that makes rage more thematic and that opens up new options/scenarios in play.

So... Not sure how I would recommend "fixing" it, if it should be fixed at all, but finding some way to spice Bone Armor up in some way would be cool.

Gnomes2169
2017-06-12, 06:47 AM
These are good changes, I think.

About the only thing I still have a minor gripe with is Bone Armor. Initial reaction is that it needs to grant resistance to damage like a Barbarian, but I appreciate you trying to offer something similar yet different. It's just... uninteresting. The mechanical strength is absolutely there. I'm sure this tanks as well or better than the Barb, but Barbarian rage also gives advantage to Strength checks and saves, and a small damage boost. There's a lot going on there that makes rage more thematic and that opens up new options/scenarios in play.

So... Not sure how I would recommend "fixing" it, if it should be fixed at all, but finding some way to spice Bone Armor up in some way would be cool.

As you said, the AC bonus is already quite powerful (scaling like the Barbarian's damage), so I feel bonuses should be kept minor. I do have a few ideas for what could work, though:
1) The armor could grant 60 ft Darkvision (or improved darkvision) at level 1, and the level 14 ability could grand advantage on perception checks instead?
2) The armor could grant +10 movement speed
3) The armor could grant a climb/ swim speed
4) The armor could allow you to ignore difficult terrain
5) The armor could grant advantage on strength checks

Of those, which two feel like they would be the most fluffy/ fitting? Leaning towards the Adv on strength and Darkvision personally atm.

Gnomes2169
2017-08-06, 06:19 PM
Alright, looking over the class again, there is only one thing I think I might change, but I would like feedback on the idea first. I'm considering changing out Evasion for Uncanny Dodge.

The reason for this is simple, I originally intended for the class to work with either strength or dexterity. I feel like Evasion pushes players towards focusing more on dexterity, which is already a powerful enough stat as it is without the added incentive! Uncanny Dodge, being a reaction that does not care about dex or strength scores, just feels like it would be a better "middle ground" defensive ability.

I'm not set either way, though. What do you guys think?

Gnomes2169
2017-11-25, 02:35 AM
So with the advent of Xanatharís Guide to Everything, a new domain fits the Enforcer subclass, and so it has been added to the list of domains options. No other real changes.

Calen
2017-11-25, 08:35 AM
Wow that is some great writing, very nice, bonus points for quoting Malazan Book of the Fallen and using Bonehunter as a archetype. I am tempted to steal the idea for my campaign. :smallbiggrin:

A couple missing elements.

1. Bone Armor Duration - There is a mention of limits on the higher level perks but I did not see a specified duration anywhere.

2. Wartrance - I didn't do a damage analysis but advantage on every turn is a lot. Limit this to a certain number per short rest?

3. Multi-classing - Throw in the multi classing requirements.

Gnomes2169
2017-11-26, 09:14 AM
Wow that is some great writing, very nice, bonus points for quoting Malazan Book of the Fallen and using Bonehunter as a archetype. I am tempted to steal the idea for my campaign. :smallbiggrin:

A couple missing elements.

1. Bone Armor Duration - There is a mention of limits on the higher level perks but I did not see a specified duration anywhere.

2. Wartrance - I didn't do a damage analysis but advantage on every turn is a lot. Limit this to a certain number per short rest?

3. Multi-classing - Throw in the multi classing requirements.

Firstly, thank you very much! Malazan is way too good and I can't stop referencing it in all of the things ever. I have a problem. I'm not fixing it. As for the feedback, well...

1. There is a duration hidden right after the note about getting advantage on Strength checks. The bone armor lasts for 1 minute, much like a barbarian's rage.

2. The thing is that the class doesn't have any other way to pump damage beyond being able to gain advantage or surprise enemies, which was totally by design. Your bonus action every turn either has to go to giving yourself advantage (and thus, at later levels, the damage that classes like the Rogue, Paladin and Barbarian are putting out without burning their bonus action) or, if you are fighting nothing but goblins, to the unarmed strike you can make with it. If you don't use your bonus action for advantage, the damage of this class (which is primarily supposed to be a Striker/ off-tank) falls off harshly, with only 1 (unmodified) weapon attack and 2 unarmed attacks to its name.

If your team goes out of their way to give you advantage on your targets, then you deal almost as much damage as a paladin. However, this requires your party helping you out so that you can do more than you are normally able to (by casting Faeri Fire on targets or something), and thus can only really be unlocked through teamwork. Something that I love encouraging. You can also reach this potential maximum by playing smart and surprising your enemies... and again, this is something that I love to encourage.

But, as said, the advantage bit basically just helps the class keep up in damage, and over-all actually is lower than the rogue's burst (though you can hit multiple targets, so that's where that balance point comes in). Since damage is so central to the class's role, and the class is gimped without it, keeping the ability to gain unlimited advantage if your team doesn't help you is kinda central to the design I was shooting for.

3. Oh hey, that is something that I really, really need to do... 13 strength or dexterity and 13 intelligence sounds like a good limit to me.

JNAProductions
2017-11-26, 11:41 AM
Grapple, shove prone. Advantage on every attack, and you can still have a hand free (if you go without a weapon or shield to start, or drop them) to make three attacks with advantage per turn.

Edit: Also, Death Dealer fails the bag of rats test... But it's also a 20th level ability, so might not be a huge deal. (After all, Theurge Wizards have infinite healing at level 18.)

Gnomes2169
2017-11-27, 02:29 AM
Grapple, shove prone. Advantage on every attack, and you can still have a hand free (if you go without a weapon or shield to start, or drop them) to make three attacks with advantage per turn.

Edit: Also, Death Dealer fails the bag of rats test... But it's also a 20th level ability, so might not be a huge deal. (After all, Theurge Wizards have infinite healing at level 18.)

Since this class doesnít have the Extra Attack feature, it can make either a Shove or[i] a Grapple action on a turn, meaning that you have two turns of set-up if you are trying to do it solo for [i]each enemy you fight. Not exactly that helpful over-all when you are likely the primary melee damage dealer. You could just trip each round... but then, you are trading your bonus action advantage for a not-as-certain action advantage, and there are plenty of enemies that are immune to the prone condition.

So shockingly, unlike every other martial class ever, the trip-grapple technique is not the go-to answer or strategy for the Legionnaire. Which I want to lie and say was totally intended, but I honestly didnít think of when making the class.

And what passes the big bag oí rats test these days, am I right? :smallbiggrin: That said, that particular (admittedly silly) rules interaction plus the fluff of eventual judgement could actually lead to a sort of scary way to end a characterís plot arc...

ĒAs the grinning skull of the lich finally faded, and the last of his victims faded into the blackness, DeníRatha, sworn sword of the bonehunter legion let out a sigh. There. That had been the last of them. Closing his eyes, the spirit floated within the endless darkness, and awaited his passage.

But, when next his eyes opened, DeníRatha was still trapped within darkness. A darkness that seemed to seethe and writhe all about him. A darkness in which spots glittered. A darkness that drew ever closer. With a growing sense of dread, the Legionnaire realized that no, he was not done. Not by far.

Rat souls were simple things, knowing only what they had in life. Driven by a sense of cosmic balance, the teeming masses that coalesced on the bright, hateful being did not understand justice, nor did they truly comprehend their purpose. What the rats understood was revenge. And the closest to their slayer remembered something else, they knew tooth and claw.

And DeníRatha, trapped in his personal bubble of purgatory, would discover that in a place without death, there was no escape from the fangs of judgement..."

The moral of the story is, donít kill rats, kids. Or your DM will be grumpy. :P

JNAProductions
2017-11-27, 10:49 AM
Yeah, like I said-failing the bag of rats test at level 20 isn't a huge deal. If you're actually worried about it, maybe make it THP? Or heal up to half, with excess HP being THP?

Can your ability be abused by carrying around a bag of rats, or similar non-dangerous creatures? In this case, yes-any time you kill a creature with an attack, you regain 2d6 HP. This means that you can top off by killing rats you carry around in a bag.

And maybe specify that you CANNOT swap your extra unarmed attacks for Shove attempts? Because as written... You can.

Calen
2017-11-27, 07:46 PM
If your team goes out of their way to give you advantage on your targets, then you deal almost as much damage as a paladin. However, this requires your party helping you out so that you can do more than you are normally able to (by casting Faeri Fire on targets or something), and thus can only really be unlocked through teamwork. Something that I love encouraging. You can also reach this potential maximum by playing smart and surprising your enemies... and again, this is something that I love to encourage.

But, as said, the advantage bit basically just helps the class keep up in damage, and over-all actually is lower than the rogue's burst (though you can hit multiple targets, so that's where that balance point comes in). Since damage is so central to the class's role, and the class is gimped without it, keeping the ability to gain unlimited advantage if your team doesn't help you is kinda central to the design I was shooting for.

3. Oh hey, that is something that I really, really need to do... 13 strength or dexterity and 13 intelligence sounds like a good limit to me.

The major problem I see with war stance is the multi classing potential. As written now I could dip 3 to grab advantage on every attack. Coupled with a multi-attack class that is fairly powerful.

The single class logic is fairly good, drop an unarmed attack to gain advantage on the other attacks. One option, slightly convoluted might be to allow hits with your unarmed attacks to grant advantage to the next attack you make on the current turn.

Gnomes2169
2017-11-29, 04:46 AM
Yeah, like I said-failing the bag of rats test at level 20 isn't a huge deal. If you're actually worried about it, maybe make it THP? Or heal up to half, with excess HP being THP?

Can your ability be abused by carrying around a bag of rats, or similar non-dangerous creatures? In this case, yes-any time you kill a creature with an attack, you regain 2d6 HP. This means that you can top off by killing rats you carry around in a bag.

And maybe specify that you CANNOT swap your extra unarmed attacks for Shove attempts? Because as written... You can.

Oh, right. The whole danged ďreplace any attack with a shove or grapple attemptĒ thing. Just gonna add that clause, since itís only supposed to be an unarmed attack...

Not really worried about Death Dealer potentially granting infinite out of combat healing, especially since that new cleric spell of heal all of the damage is a thing now (thanks XGtE). Gives you a use for all those squirrels, birds and butterflies that are following your level 20 hippy druid around. :P


The major problem I see with war stance is the multi classing potential. As written now I could dip 3 to grab advantage on every attack. Coupled with a multi-attack class that is fairly powerful.

The single class logic is fairly good, drop an unarmed attack to gain advantage on the other attacks. One option, slightly convoluted might be to allow hits with your unarmed attacks to grant advantage to the next attack you make on the current turn.

It is limited to melee attacks only, so the classes that would potentially want it are Barbarians, Fighters, Monks, Paladins, Swashbuckler Rogues, and those rare, weird melee Rangers. Of those, letís look at what would work for a 3-level dip:

Classes that are questionable to level 3

-Barbarian: The Bone Armor strength advantage overlaps with Rage, and using both of those features already takes two bonus actions, so the War Trance wouldnít be active to round 3 anyway. As well, the barbarian can already generate advantage on their attacks with Reckless Attack, and they have the HP and Resistances to deal with enemies having advantage against them, so keeping their bonus action open for things like a bonus Great Weapon Master attack, two weapon fightering, or the unarmed attack this class grants them is perfectly feasable. For the Barbarian, a 2 level dip for the Bonehunter subclass, the bone armor and the bonus action attack would be a bit better than a 3 level one.

-Melee Rangers: Well, rangers have Hunterís Mark. And if you are building a melee ranger and you are not taking Horizon Walker, you are, in fact, doing something wrong! Rangers basically have their bonus actions reserved as is, they donít need more competition for that precious slot.

-Monks: Flurry of blows, and their own melee attack damage progression and ki pool growth being interrupted are two relatively large reasons not to dip, along with the fact that the monk is pretty MAD already. 13 int when you already want 16 dex, wis and at least 14 con isnít exactly the easiest thing to pick up. If stats are rolled well enough, then 1 level for a subclass and the bone armor is okay. Otherwise, probably not worth the investment.

Classes where itís not bad, but doesnít break anything

-The Swashbuckler Rogue: Given two-weapon fighting is effectively giving the rogue advantage on their one attack, and sneak attack is the reason why the rogue deals damage anyway. Level 3 effectively doesnít matter as far as rogue damage is concerned, and will actually hamper sneak attack progression noticeably. A 1-2 level dip fits better, and doesnít introduce the redundancy that TWF/ War Trance intrinsically hold.

-Paladin: Only because of the MAD problems, paladin is both here and in the next category. If you get the spare int, ignore this.

Classes where it is inarguably good

-Fighter: A fighter 11/ Legionnare 9 could very well be the best combination for this MC. 4 attacks (3 weapon, 1 unarmed), doubled when you action surge, all with advantage is really, really good. Maybe a little redundant for a Samurai, so not so good with that particular subclass, but otherwise preeeeetty good.

-Paladin with enough int: Paladins like hitting attacks, they are melee only, and Vengeance is so popular because of the targeted advantage on all attacks for a minute. If you do not mind the awful MAD here, you could probably get a lot of mileage out of a 3 level dip... even if that basically locks you into base human in a Point Buy game, and you will not be able to get Charisma up to 20 because of it and the lost ASI from multi-classing. Still, that damage will be good when it kicks in, and additional armor and never being unarmed are nice as well!

Ultimately

So then, the only classes this might actually be a problem on are either the fighter (which is probably multi-classing anyway), and the Paladin as a MAD nightmare. Itís not really game-breaking for most classes, in about the same vein as the Barbarianís Reckless Attack. It comes a level later than Reckless, requires a bonus action (unlike reckless), and does not grant enemies advantage in return.

Over-all, Iím not concerned with it. Itís reckless attack that requires action economy instead of granting enemies advantage. Not really insane.

Gnomes2169
2018-09-17, 03:13 PM
Ooooooh boy oh boy kids, itís that time again where I take a deep, introspective look at myself and consider all of my mortal failings! Well, more accurately where I review the stuff I have made with a critical eye and then give it to someone else to look at so they can tell me what the jank is.

And there was jank here. Most definitely jank. The class was stepping on the toes of the monk something fierce, many abilities were kinda weird, and in general it was a flavorful mess... but still a mess over-all.

With all of that said, letís see how I went about trying to fix that mess, shall we?

Main class changes/ updates

Proficiencies YOU CAN USE SHIELDS NOW MEMBERS OF THE LEGION, REJOICE! Mostly because the theme went from a mobile DPS to a semi-tanky consistent DPS, so as not to step on the toes of the monk. On the skills side of things, Arcana and Nature were exchanged for Intimidation and Stealth because they feel more, quote, ďSkully.Ē

Bone Armorís duration has been made much more clear, and it now grants advantage on int/wis checks while active instead of giving a movement speed buff. Kinda like how a barbarian gets more smashy when they rage, a Legionnaire gets more aware and analytical when they enshroud themselves in their armor. So many other Legionnaires whispering in their skulls and looking out for them... the number of uses now scale at the same rate as proficiency so that this ability can be used for utility if the player desires.

Bone Blades have been changed into Bone Blade instead, and moved to level 1. Instead of being unarmed strikes it is now an actual weapon that you can create and choose the damage type of (equivalent to either a Rapier or Greatsword). This blade becomes magical and scales up as you level up, gaining a natural enhancement bonus simply so you do not feel bad for using it instead of random magical weapon loot drops that would hit harder or better.

War Trance was kicked out of its level 3 spot and is now stuck in at level 2 because the first subclass feature was shifted to level 3. This does make it easier to splash for, which again really only helps out those fighters and rogues who would like to make sure their attacks reeeeeally hit, but doesnít help out most other classes in the game (especially barbarians).

Sworn Legion features went from being level 1, 9, 13, 17 to 3, 9, 13, 15. Mostly so other features could become more integral/ scale better, and so that there isnít an 8 level gap between getting your first feature and your second.

Extra Attack is now what you get at level 5. Uniqueness is overrated anyway.

Eyes of the Reaper has been removed, and instead at level 7 you gain Retaliatory Strike, which lets you attack people that miss you. Again, emphasizing more of a ďtank/ dpsĒ roll.

Expertise is now Graven Tutors, which lets you gain proficiency in 1 untrained skill and 2 new languages. You still get this twice, once at level 9 and once at level 18.

Intellect Fortress has replaced the level 10 ASI, to emphasize that this is a martial class with high Mental durability. You add your int bonus to your mental saving throws (and to your int twice).

Reaperís Implement replaces eyes of the reaper at level 11, and adds your int bonus to the damage of your bone blade. It also allows you to change your bone bladeís damage to positive or negative as you choose. At level 17 this damage boost changes to double your int bonus.

Haunted Sight dropped the darksight bit and now grants you the ability to study a foe and determine a few thematic things about them. While this feature still has blindsight out to 10 feet, it is now mostly a fluff ability with a little roleplay impact. I happen to like it.

Subclasses

Enforcer has been deleted for being a giant pile of jank. This class doesnít need a spell-slinging variant.

Bonehunter To bring this in line with the Tallyman, this subclass was changed substantially. Level 3 now grants a fighting style (dueling or great weapon) and the ability to mark a target. Level 9 is now immunity to fear for you and allies within 10 feet as long as you are wearing your armor. Level 13 no longer lets you burrow, it is now immunity to poison and necrotic damage (because necrotic is pretty dang rare and poison immunity is common from other sources, immunity to both here just ensures there is impact to both abilities). Note, this does not grant immunity to the poisoned condition, just damage.

Punitive gained a new ability at level 3 that bumps up their max HP by 1/ level. No other changes.

Tallyman Only changed the level 15 ability, giving you advantage on attacks against targets frightened of you. The damage bonus was just too small and situational, which made it unintuitive and hard to remember. This hopefully makes it a bit better by potentially freeing up your bonus action.