Granting a feat at every level

[heavyfuel]

Since our last two campaigns were 3.5 e6, the players and I got really used to having a bunch of feats, so now that we're transitioning to a normal campaign I was thinking about giving them a feat at every level instead of a feat every odd level.

Yeah, this breaks the Fighter, so I intend to give Fighters one or two archetypes for free. Not sure, opinions are welcome.

Would this broken in any sense?

I assume this benefits low tier classes (Monks and Rogues) more than high tiers (Wizards and Druids), but am I wrong?

Thanks!

[stanprollyright]

I'm running a P6 game right now where the players get a feat every session, but they level up every three or so. Right now they are 2nd level with 4 bonus feats. No major problems so far. The Investigator is slowly getting all the relevant gun feats (it's a western setting), the Witch has taken Extra Hex a few times, and the Druid...(checks her sheet)...has apparently forgotten to take feats the last two sessions.

[Bucky]

The two ways I see for this to potentially get out of hand are variant multiclassing and DSP material.

Variant multiclassing, if the extra feats eliminate rather than mitigate the downside. DSP because it gives everyone access to maneuvers and low-level psionic powers through feats, so you might end up in a situation where everyone has a pile of minor side abilities.

[Pex]

Personally I don't think it's necessary. All classes get stuff every level, so there's always something to look forward to. Be wary of classes that can take feats that give additional access to their class features multiple times. Extra Revelation for Oracles. Extra Hex for Witches. They will accumulate a lot of power. As an alternative, use the fast XP leveling progression. Players won't be waiting as long to get new toys.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I don't really see a problem with it, though I'd probably restrict characters to having 1/2 their character level in "Extra Class Feature" feats.

As for the Fighter, giving them some of their 5e features and optional PF stuff would be cool. Combat Stamina (based on Fighter levels only) and Second Wind at 1st, Weapon Aptitude (3.5 Warblade) and Bravery at 2nd, Martial Flexibility at 5th, Action Surge (see Factotum's Cunning Surge, but with Stamina) at 8th, and Indomitable at 9th. If that's not good enough (probably is), give them the Champion subclass abilities.

[Florian]

@heavyfuel:

Keep in mind that PF doesn´t really have any "empty levels" and classes like the Barbarian or Rogue gain Rage Powers or Rogue Talents every even level, which are more powerful than any feat could be, most of the time. With 20/20 feats, I´d go hog wild and pump anything in the appropriate "Extra" feats for the class I´d chose (Extra Rage Power, Extra Hex, and so on) and maybe invest in a VMC, just for funsies. Heck, playing a Fighter, I´d put that 10 extra feats into (Item) Mastery feats and out-cast the casters for a while...

Edit: The main benefit will be for extremely feat-intensive builds. Even normally feat-starved builds/classes will suddenly be able to go for some Style chain, and so on (Think Barbarian and Brute Style.)

[grarrrg]

As a way to restrict potential abuse, "all bonus feats must be a Combat feat".

Prevents "Extra [thing]" abuse.
Prevents Casters from loading up on ALL the goodies.
Some of the 2nd tier combat feats might actually see some use...

[Coretron03]

As a way to restrict potential abuse, "all bonus feats must be a Combat feat".

Prevents "Extra [thing]" abuse.
Prevents Casters from loading up on ALL the goodies.
Some of the 2nd tier combat feats might actually see some use...

Does have the issue of what casters are suppose do do with the feats. Other then improved initiative, I can't think of many combat feats that wizards, witches and sorcerers would want. Maybe dodge? Gishes would love it and cleric/druids would be in heaven (pun unintended). Plus, I would play the hell out of the bard. I could take martial weapon prof:greatsword and not feel unoptmized.

[Florian]

Does have the issue of what casters are suppose do do with the feats. Other then improved initiative, I can't think of many combat feats that wizards, witches and sorcerers would want. Maybe dodge? Gishes would love it and cleric/druids would be in heaven (pun unintended). Plus, I would play the hell out of the bard. I could take martial weapon prof:greatsword and not feel unoptmized.

With combat feats to waste, I´d actually go for either Kirin Style or Elven Battle Style on a Wizard (or elven Wizard) to get Int as bonus damage going. Dip or VMC Sorcerer and it gets nasty. Even Combat Reflexes, Weapon Finesse and one of the longer lasting touch spells would be an option.

[Psyren]

As Florian noted there are lots of combat feats that are good for everyone. Style feats, Equipment Tricks, Amateur X, Defensive Combat Training, Improved Initiative, Blind-Fight... you can also take things to help your weaponlikes, e.g. Weapon Focus (ray). If you still have leftovers after all that, you can also just load up on Teamwork feats for no other reason than to help out the martial classes, and there are even some (like Lookout) that are beneficial for casters too.

[Firest Kathon]

Also, Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot are nice on any caster that uses rays or any class which throws things into combat (*looks over to the Alchemist*).

[Grod_The_Giant]

As long as your change has a roughly equal effect on everyone in the party, tweak to your heart's content-- as the DM, you can easily compensate for a group that's a bit stronger or weaker than expected.

[martixy]

Another option, I like is a feat every level you don't get an ability point - this means every level you get something cool - either a feat or an ability point.
Also the difference between a point every 3 levels vs every 4 levels is a +1 modifier by L20 (4 total vs 6 total).
So: feat, feat, ability point, ad infinitum is a good progression for a higher-powered game.

[heavyfuel]

The two ways I see for this to potentially get out of hand are variant multiclassing and DSP material.

Variant multiclassing, if the extra feats eliminate rather than mitigate the downside. DSP because it gives everyone access to maneuvers and low-level psionic powers through feats, so you might end up in a situation where everyone has a pile of minor side abilities.


Personally I don't think it's necessary. All classes get stuff every level, so there's always something to look forward to. Be wary of classes that can take feats that give additional access to their class features multiple times. Extra Revelation for Oracles. Extra Hex for Witches. They will accumulate a lot of power. As an alternative, use the fast XP leveling progression. Players won't be waiting as long to get new toys.


@heavyfuel:

Keep in mind that PF doesn´t really have any "empty levels" and classes like the Barbarian or Rogue gain Rage Powers or Rogue Talents every even level, which are more powerful than any feat could be, most of the time. With 20/20 feats, I´d go hog wild and pump anything in the appropriate "Extra" feats for the class I´d chose (Extra Rage Power, Extra Hex, and so on) and maybe invest in a VMC, just for funsies. Heck, playing a Fighter, I´d put that 10 extra feats into (Item) Mastery feats and out-cast the casters for a while...

Edit: The main benefit will be for extremely feat-intensive builds. Even normally feat-starved builds/classes will suddenly be able to go for some Style chain, and so on (Think Barbarian and Brute Style.)

Exactly what I was looking for when I started this topic. Thanks!


As a way to restrict potential abuse, "all bonus feats must be a Combat feat".

Prevents "Extra [thing]" abuse.
Prevents Casters from loading up on ALL the goodies.
Some of the 2nd tier combat feats might actually see some use...

This or a suggestion I read elsewhere talking about restricting them to teamwork feats. Teamwork feats arent powerful but are pretty flavourful at first glance

[Florian]

Exactly what I was looking for when I started this topic. Thanks!



This or a suggestion I read elsewhere talking about restricting them to teamwork feats. Teamwork feats arent powerful but are pretty flavourful at first glance

Teamwork feats are quite powerful, but tend to get underrated due to the heavy focus on solo optimization. Take a look at any decent Inquisitor or Hunter guide to get a grip on what can be done with them. To re-use the previous example of the Brute Style Barbarian: team charge, rage and combat maneuvers? Yes, pleeeeassse....

It's been pointed out before: PF martials have a bad rep, but offer peak performance when compared to actual bestiary monsters they're pitted against.
Before you consider changes like these, take your time and read the Mythic rules on the PRD, as these will give (roughly) 10 more attribute points and 5 feats, the overall effect is quite pronounced.

Edit: I keep using that Style as an example, as it is a very long feat chain that will end in a very effective tactic by itself. It's easy to gauge if adding more feats, regardless whether general, combat or teamwork, will alter the intended balance here.