Magic of Incarnum Totemist dip

[TheCryingApple]

So from what I've gleaned, MoI is somewhat... confusing to some people, which makes getting straight answers difficult.

Id like to take a 2 level dip into totemist, because there is a gap in my build and I could fill it with anything in the world, but totemist sounded cool.

So I'd like to get some questions in, so I don't give my DM a headache, and so I don't get one myself.
Here they are in true/false format:

1- I can shape in the morning, but once an item is shaped, I can keep it that way indefinitely.

2- I can shape ANY meld on the totemist list at level 1.

3- I cannot bind ANY meld at level 1.

4- I cannot bind to any chakra other than to my totem chakra at level 2.

5- If I do not bind, it does not take an item slot.

6- If I shape to a chakra, and then I bind to my totem chakra, it does not take the item slot.

7- I cannot have two melds shaped to the same chakra.

8- If I invest essentia to one meld, it stays there until I move it.

9- I can only invest 1 essentia in any meld, though at level 2, I can invest 2 essentia to a meld bound to my totem chakra.

10- If a meld has a bonus dependent upon the amount of essentia invested for both its regular effect and its effect while bound to a totem chakra, I would gain BOTH benefits while the meld is bound and essentia is invested. Example: Girallon Arms have +2 to climb and grapple checks per point of essentia invested, as well as +1 to attack and damage rolls while bound to a totem chakra.

11- If I bind, say Girallon Arms, to my totem chakra, I would only get the benefit of binding it to my totem chakra (extra pair of arms, and claw attacks), and not the benefit it receives from being bound its normal related slot (rend).

That's about as much as I can think of at the moment. Other questions might follow in subsequent comments.

On a tangent, I'd like to keep a few more permanent melds instead of swapping them out on the fly. What would be a few good ones to bind and forget about the shaping/binding/essentia investing process for the rest of the game?

[Waker]

1- I can shape in the morning, but once an item is shaped, I can keep it that way indefinitely.
Yes, all soulmelds have a duration of permanent. They stay shaped until you unshape them or some outside effect does so. Specifically on pg 53 in the Other Meld Information section it states "all soulmelds have a duration of until unshaped"

2- I can shape ANY meld on the totemist list at level 1.
Yes, taking a level in Totemist grants access to all soulmelds on the class list.

3- I cannot bind ANY meld at level 1.
Correct, the Totemist has no access to any chakra binds at level 1.

4- I cannot bind to any chakra other than to my totem chakra at level 2.
Yes, the Totem chakra is the first chakra point the class unlocks.

5- If I do not bind, it does not take an item slot.
Correct. In the Chakra section on pg 50, it details the interaction of melds and items. "When a soulmeld occupies a chakra, the meldshaper can still wear and gain benefit from a magic item that occupies the corresponding body slot."
The following section Chakra Binds then details "It prevents you from gaining any benefit from a magic item that occupies the corresponding body slot."

6- If I shape to a chakra, and then I bind to my totem chakra, it does not take the item slot.
Correct. Pg 30 of the Totem Chakra Bind states "Since the totem chakra doesn't match a body location, binding a soulmeld to this chakra doesn't restrict your use of magic items that take up a body location.

7- I cannot have two melds shaped to the same chakra.
Correct. The Double Chakra feat does allow you to bypass this.

8- If I invest essentia to one meld, it stays there until I move it.
Correct

9- I can only invest 1 essentia in any meld, though at level 2, I can invest 2 essentia to a meld bound to my totem chakra.
Correct

10- If a meld has a bonus dependent upon the amount of essentia invested for both its regular effect and its effect while bound to a totem chakra, I would gain BOTH benefits while the meld is bound and essentia is invested. Example: Girallon Arms have +2 to climb and grapple checks per point of essentia invested, as well as +1 to attack and damage rolls while bound to a totem chakra.
Correct.

11- If I bind, say Girallon Arms, to my totem chakra, I would only get the benefit of binding it to my totem chakra (extra pair of arms, and claw attacks), and not the benefit it receives from being bound its normal related slot (rend).
Correct. At level 11 the Totemist gains the ability to bind the same soulmeld to two separate chakra locations with Double Bind.

[TheCryingApple]

Thank you very much!
I skimmed the book and read a handbook or two, and a few "Incarnum for Dummies" type posts, but some of these were fairly uninformative on concrete questions for someone only entering for a level or two.
Hopefully this can help others with specific predicaments like mine.

[Waker]

I'm always down to spread some Incarnum knowledge. One thing you didn't ask and is very important to remember is the essentia capacity on pg 19. Whether you are dealing with a soulmeld, race/class feature, feat; you are restricted based on your character level, not class. Certain class abilities and feats allow you to raise that cap. Since you are multi-classing that part is important to remember.

[Morphic tide]

So from what I've gleaned, MoI is somewhat... confusing to some people, which makes getting straight answers difficult.

Id like to take a 2 level dip into totemist, because there is a gap in my build and I could fill it with anything in the world, but totemist sounded cool.

So I'd like to get some questions in, so I don't give my DM a headache, and so I don't get one myself.
Here they are in true/false format:
Okay, I don't have book with me, so I don't have a listing of the rules, but this is what I recall:


1- I can shape in the morning, but once an item is shaped, I can keep it that way indefinitely.
Not just that, but the 'Melds you shape in the morning stay shaped throughout the day unless you have something that allows you to unbind and/or rebind Soulmelds. A specific Soulmeld can be shaped indefinitely, but may only be changed during the morning.


2- I can shape ANY meld on the totemist list at level 1.
Yes, you can, and get bonuses as described by the 'Meld.


3- I cannot bind ANY meld at level 1.
Well, that one's slightly fuzzy if you take a feat from a certain category. I can't remember what it's called, but it specifically enables you to bind soulmelds to a specific Chakra, determined by the feat. The reason why it's fuzzy is because there's a column on the class table saying that you can't do any Chakra binds at Totemist 1.


4- I cannot bind to any chakra other than to my totem chakra at level 2.
If you manage to have the above-mentioned Chakra-unlocking feat, you can, and the fuzziness is removed because the column now says you can bind one Soulmeld to a Chakra.


5- If I do not bind, it does not take an item slot.
Correct, because the item slot occupying is caused by having item slots correspond to Chakras.


6- If I shape to a chakra, and then I bind to my totem chakra, it does not take the item slot.
Correct, because the Totem Chakra does not correspond to an item slot of any sort.


7- I cannot have two melds shaped to the same chakra.
You can, if you have a specific feat. If you lack that specific feat, then you cannot bind two 'Melds to the same Chakra.


8- If I invest essentia to one meld, it stays there until I move it.
Correct. And moving it is something you can do at-will out of combat. Not sure what the action used is, but it's combat viable to swap the


9- I can only invest 1 essentia in any meld, though at level 2, I can invest 2 essentia to a meld bound to my totem chakra.
Essentia investment caps are based on character level. You get to have 2 Essentia invested in any 'Meld at character level 6, while you get a feature to boost the Essentia investment cap for 'Melds bound to your Totem chakra.


10- If a meld has a bonus dependent upon the amount of essentia invested for both its regular effect and its effect while bound to a totem chakra, I would gain BOTH benefits while the meld is bound and essentia is invested. Example: Girallon Arms have +2 to climb and grapple checks per point of essentia invested, as well as +1 to attack and damage rolls while bound to a totem chakra.
Correct.


11- If I bind, say Girallon Arms, to my totem chakra, I would only get the benefit of binding it to my totem chakra (extra pair of arms, and claw attacks), and not the benefit it receives from being bound its normal related slot (rend).
You can get both benefits if you bind it to both Chakras, an ability you get at Totemist 11.


That's about as much as I can think of at the moment. Other questions might follow in subsequent comments.

On a tangent, I'd like to keep a few more permanent melds instead of swapping them out on the fly. What would be a few good ones to bind and forget about the shaping/binding/essentia investing process for the rest of the game?

You cannot swap 'Melds on the fly normally. You can swap Essentia investment on the fly. You should be swapping Essentia investment away from your utility 'Melds unless it is immediately needed. You should be keeping your Essentia in the most useful spot at all times, with the only exception being when the action economy is in the way.

The real pick depends on the build you are dipping in with. There's certain cheese that can make it so that you just automatically, naturally keep Strongheart Vest capped out on Essentia at all times to negate self-inflicted ability damage. And by cheese, I mean cost bypassing.

[Waker]

On a tangent, I'd like to keep a few more permanent melds instead of swapping them out on the fly. What would be a few good ones to bind and forget about the shaping/binding/essentia investing process for the rest of the game?

I forgot to reply to this part. It really depends on your build, but there are a few really useful melds for pretty much anyone.
Blink Shirt- 10ft standard action teleport. Essentia invested increases range.
Totem Avatar- HP=meldshaper level, essentia invested grants natural armor, chakra bind grants bonuses to natural attacks based on essentia.
Gorgon Mask- Bonuses to fortitude, resisting bullrush, trip, overrun or trample effects.
Great Raptor Mask- Spot bonuses are nice, but the Evasion from the totem bind are the winner.

[TheCryingApple]

I'm always down to spread some Incarnum knowledge. One thing you didn't ask and is very important to remember is the essentia capacity on pg 19. Whether you are dealing with a soulmeld, race/class feature, feat; you are restricted based on your character level, not class. Certain class abilities and feats allow you to raise that cap. Since you are multi-classing that part is important to remember.

That's something I saw but but for some reason I automatically assumed it was based on class level rather than character level. For now I will only have 2 essentia for a long time, but it will prove useful if I play this character long enough to get into a dual progression class.



Correct. And moving it is something you can do at-will out of combat. Not sure what the action used is, but it's combat viable to swap the

The real pick depends on the build you are dipping in with. There's certain cheese that can make it so that you just automatically, naturally keep Strongheart Vest capped out on Essentia at all times to negate self-inflicted ability damage. And by cheese, I mean cost bypassing.

Im 99% sure its a swift action to reallocate.

And is the cheese you are referring to the hellfire warlock combo? I must be a jaded optimizer since I consider that to be a completely unquestionable tactic.

My current build is a bit mishmashed build for a gestalt game.

Swordsage 3 on one side currently, probably going to keep following that path. Maybe Bloodclaw master, but i haven't looked into that enough.

On the other side, 3 levels of fighter so far (i know, unoptimized.), followed by the 2 levels of totemist I'm currently asking about, and later 2 levels of ur-priest, and some divine prestige until i qualify for contemplative to get law domain and possibly keep going with sapphire heirarch. If those all have conflicting requirements, im not too worried, as the game probably wont get far enough for those to come up.

[Rebel7284]

Dual Progression classes, such as Sapphire Hierarch, are discouraged (although not outright banned) in gestalt.

I will say that in general, "wait and see" is not a great way to approach multi-classing in D&D. Too many prestige classes have super specific requirements that are easy to meet with some foresight but can be difficult to jump into without preparation. Of course, not everything needs to be set in stone as campaigns can change radically, but planning more may help avoid frustration down the line. With that said Ur Priest//Anything will probably do just fine regardless of the details. :)

[TheCryingApple]

Dual Progression classes, such as Sapphire Hierarch, are discouraged (although not outright banned) in gestalt.

I will say that in general, "wait and see" is not a great way to approach multi-classing in D&D. Too many prestige classes have super specific requirements that are easy to meet with some foresight but can be difficult to jump into without preparation. Of course, not everything needs to be set in stone as campaigns can change radically, but planning more may help avoid frustration down the line. With that said Ur Priest//Anything will probably do just fine regardless of the details. :)

I was always under the impression that dual progressions were frowned upon if the prereqs were satisfied on both sides rather than one, cause then the downsides of a normal dual progression build are nullified. At the same time, I would be pretty rude to the other players at the table to take ur-priest and a dual progression, cause that is the literal definition of cheese.
It wasn't really something I actively planned on taking however, after ur-priest I was mostly just listing possibilities.

[Rebel7284]

I was always under the impression that dual progressions were frowned upon if the prereqs were satisfied on both sides rather than one, cause then the downsides of a normal dual progression build are nullified. At the same time, I would be pretty rude to the other players at the table to take ur-priest and a dual progression, cause that is the literal definition of cheese.
It wasn't really something I actively planned on taking however, after ur-priest I was mostly just listing possibilities.



A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level,
although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class.
Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations—such as
the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight—should
be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly
complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered
variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for
prestige classes earlier than normal, the DM is entirely justified
in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it’s available
only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.


The sections about possibly prohibiting dual progression classes and possibly changing prerequisites to make early entry harder are not related.

With that said, considering the comparatively low power of soul binding, I would not consider Sapphire Hierarch to be cheesy at all, even in gestalt. Ur-Priest is the cheesy part and there are way more powerful ways to progress it.

[Venger]

For a totemist, it is always worth it to gain the dragonblood subtype to unlock draconic melds.

Blink shirt is always a solid meld to have on the back burner.

Claws of the wyrm is a great meld, giving a claw attack without costing a bind.

dread carapace is also always a solid investment, as is the shoulder bind for the totem avatar.

as far as "set and forget" melds, ones that you don't have to take actions for, or can leave on without investing essentia, like the sphinx claws' hand bind, are good candidates.

[TheCryingApple]

For a totemist, it is always worth it to gain the dragonblood subtype to unlock draconic melds.

Blink shirt is always a solid meld to have on the back burner.

Claws of the wyrm is a great meld, giving a claw attack without costing a bind.

dread carapace is also always a solid investment, as is the shoulder bind for the totem avatar.

as far as "set and forget" melds, ones that you don't have to take actions for, or can leave on without investing essentia, like the sphinx claws' hand bind, are good candidates.

I was actually planning on Claws of the wyrm, but then I realized that it wasn't from MoI, and that's the only source I have for this dip.

Claw attacks do seem interesting though, so i considered Landshark boots (my jump score is decent due to tiger claw from ToB)



With that said, considering the comparatively low power of soul binding, I would not consider Sapphire Hierarch to be cheesy at all, even in gestalt. Ur-Priest is the cheesy part and there are way more powerful ways to progress it.

Ur-priest was meant partially for the flavor. My character is a misguided faust who was rejected from becoming a cleric, and thus strives to attain a new way to reach his diety. I decided that if the game ended at or after level 6, I would have a fulfilling ending, though probably not a happy one.
As for cheesy, my group is comprised of tier-1s, so it would be more like catching up for the few levels I play it.

Though looking at it now, totemist doesnt seem to fit this theme. Perhaps incarnate would be better? Though i hear the real prize is a 3 level dip

[Waker]

Though looking at it now, totemist doesnt seem to fit this theme. Perhaps incarnate would be better? Though i hear the real prize is a 3 level dip
Ur-Priest doesn't thematically fit with Totemist, since one is about stealing power from the gods and the other is about manipulating the spirits of powerful magical beasts. Incarnate could be comparable to a cleric, since they are all about manipulating incarnum (which is basically raw spiritual energy). Note that if you go this route, that will lock you into the Neutral Evil alignment, since Incarnate requires one neutral aspect. 3 levels is a good dip for Incarnates since that gets you one chakra bind, raises the essentia cap and gives you a use of Incarnum radiance. If you do go Evil Incarnate, look at Necrocarnum Circlet for automatic undead detection and disposable zombie minion.
If you aren't set on a race, you might look at the Tiefling Incarnate racial acf. Gives you a couple extra skill points, a situational ability to see in magical darkness and the ability to get concealment. Lesser Tiefling would save you the LA.

[TheCryingApple]

Ur-Priest doesn't thematically fit with Totemist, since one is about stealing power from the gods and the other is about manipulating the spirits of powerful magical beasts. Incarnate could be comparable to a cleric, since they are all about manipulating incarnum (which is basically raw spiritual energy). Note that if you go this route, that will lock you into the Neutral Evil alignment, since Incarnate requires one neutral aspect. 3 levels is a good dip for Incarnates since that gets you one chakra bind, raises the essentia cap and gives you a use of Incarnum radiance. If you do go Evil Incarnate, look at Necrocarnum Circlet for automatic undead detection and disposable zombie minion.
If you aren't set on a race, you might look at the Tiefling Incarnate racial acf. Gives you a couple extra skill points, a situational ability to see in magical darkness and the ability to get concealment. Lesser Tiefling would save you the LA.

Unfortunately, the character has already been played for two sessions, so changing race isnt much of an option.
My DM offered to waive the alignment restriction of Ur-priest, for story-related purposes, though neutral evil isnt much of an issue.

I'm now considering two levels in Incarnate, and think I have a good understanding of MoI, but are there any nuanced rules that are different between a two level dip in Incarnate and a two level dip in Totemist? I cant really change it to 3 levels without my ultimate goal being delayed.

So far I can see:
-Lose wild empathy, gain auras and detect alignment at will.
-Lose totem chakra binding, gain crown chakra binding.

[Waker]

The biggest difference between the two aside from the obvious difference in soulmeld list, is that as an Incarnate your melds are limited by your alignment. Now most soulmelds don't have an alignment restriction, but enough of them do that it affects exactly what you can do as an Incarnate. So if you are a Neutral Evil Incarnate, you can't use any soulmelds that are Good/Law/Chaotic.

[Venger]

The biggest difference between the two aside from the obvious difference in soulmeld list, is that as an Incarnate your melds are limited by your alignment. Now most soulmelds don't have an alignment restriction, but enough of them do that it affects exactly what you can do as an Incarnate. So if you are a Neutral Evil Incarnate, you can't use any soulmelds that are Good/Law/Chaotic.

that said, evil offers 7 unique melds, many of which are quite good. good offers only 2, which are mediocre at best, and chaos/law offer none, so if you go incarnate, go NE