3.5 1 level dips for sneak attack

[jdizzlean]

other then rogue, are there any classes/prc's that you can take a 1 lvl dip of to gain sneak attack as a class ability?

or is there a racial/template ability that will grant that (unlikely :( )

[Mike Miller]

Depending on what level you are taking the dip, swordsage could grant you the assassin's stance

[Waker]

Spellthief and Thug Fighter (UA) are the only ones that immediately spring to mind for non-PrC classes. Scout and Ninja of course have Skirmish and Sudden Strike respectively.
What are you trying to do?

[Zaydos]

Top of my head:
Swordsage: Requires 8 character levels prior, and some DMs may force a 1st level stance instead (as it technically says that at 1st level they get a 1st level stance and not a stance of a level they qualify for) of the 3rd level Assassin's Stance which grants 2d6 Sneak Attack. It could be acquired with 2 feats though.
Sneak Attack Fighter: Variant in Unearthed Arcana (trades feats for Rogue sneak attack progression).
Spellthief: Complete Adventurer.

Prestige Classes:
Nightsong Enforcer: Minimum level 8.
Ronin: Minimum level 7; BAB based requirement.

[Grod_The_Giant]

According to the List of Stuff (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=idgk5omcj85p482rk0g0623sd1&topic=1412.0)...

Rogue
Assassin
Spellthief (CAdv)
Psionic Rogue (Web)
Avenger (Web)
Slayer of Domiel (BoED)
Cancer Mage (BoVD)
Invisible Blade (CWar)
Justicar (nonlethal only, CWar)
Ronin (CWar)
Nightsong Enforcer (CAdv)
Unseen Seer (CM)
Master of Masks (CS)
Justicar of Taiia (Deities and Demigods)
Guild Thief (FRCS)
Magelord (LEoF)
Warsling Sniper (with a specific weapon; RoF)
Shadow Thief of Amn (PGtF)
Fang of Sseth (Serpent Kingdoms)
Peerless Archer (ranged only; Silver Marches)

EDIT: Also, I know Marrulurks (Sandstorm) and Dark Stalkers (Fiend Folio) both have racial sneak attacks; I suspect there are more.

[Zaydos]

Justicar doesn't get Sneak Attack. It gets an ability that functions like Sneak Attack but only when you're using a lethal weapon to deal nonlethal damage (at which point normal Sneak Attack is disallowed).

[Kaje]

Lasher gets it for whips.

[jdizzlean]

Spellthief and Thug Fighter (UA) are the only ones that immediately spring to mind for non-PrC classes. Scout and Ninja of course have Skirmish and Sudden Strike respectively.
What are you trying to do?


Depending on what level you are taking the dip, swordsage could grant you the assassin's stance


So i have a cleric/church inquisitor build i'm looking to play when my current character dies. I just read the complete adventurer, which has a PRC called Shadowbane Inquisitor that requires sneak attack ability as a pre-req. SI would be a nifty addition to that build as it's just even more FU evil on top of the fanatic i have built.

at lvl 1: https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1160404
possible lvl 9 w/ OP magic gear: https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1167394

I'm just curious if i can mitigate a rogue level by another fashion such as race or template instead of burning a lvl on it, or if there is a better option flavor and utility wise. I don't have a specific lvl to dip at in mind, but I think Church Inquisitor stops being useful around 5-6, and I can enter that at lvl 4 if I go straight cleric to that point.

I have the build as a member of the Church of Scales, and adding a bonus affiliation of Order of Illumination shouldn't be to hard, nor would getting the DM to modify the "use sword" to "use mace" for the SI class.

However if i change race from Illumian, i'll lose some nifty +CL racial abilities.

[Inevitability]

Spellthief and Thug Fighter (UA) are the only ones that immediately spring to mind for non-PrC classes. Scout and Ninja of course have Skirmish and Sudden Strike respectively.
What are you trying to do?

Sneak Attack fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter), not thug fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug). They're actually separate ACFs, just ones that are commonly combined.

[Zombulian]

other then rogue, are there any classes/prc's that you can take a 1 lvl dip of to gain sneak attack as a class ability?

or is there a racial/template ability that will grant that (unlikely :( )

Ooh am I gonna be the first to say it?
Rokugan Ninja. Sneak Attack and Full BAB plus some other neato class features (like running RILLY FEST).

[GilesTheCleric]

So i have a cleric/church inquisitor build

There was another thread about this exact topic a week ago. There might be some additional suggestions there. Here's what I said:

Sacred Outlaw Drag357 86, Daggerspell Shaper CAd 36, Mythic Exemplar: Dardallion CC 86, Sanctified One (Olidammara) CC 99, Black Flame Zealot CD 22, Master of Masks CS 53, Eye of Lolth DotU 80, Strifeleader FaP 204, Relic Hunter Drag353 88, Scar Enforcer RoD 131, Arcane Trickster DMG 177, Arvoreen’s Keeper Drag321 76, Darkmask LoD 34, Shadowbane Stalker CAd 73, Spellwarp Sniper CS 64

[martixy]

EDIT: Also, I know Marrulurks (Sandstorm) and Dark Stalkers (Fiend Folio) both have racial sneak attacks; I suspect there are more.

Shadar Kai, again from Fiend Folio.

[Inevitability]

Shadar Kai, again from Fiend Folio.

Derro, from the MM.

[jdizzlean]

There was another thread about this exact topic a week ago. There might be some additional suggestions there. Here's what I said:



i looked all the way back to the beginning of the month and can't find it, can you link that thread?

in the mean time, i'll work on looking at the suggestions you and others have had.

only concern on some of them is that i can't play evil, so while some descriptions say "usually evil" or the like, i'd have to have one hell of a reason for playing one of those races/classes as a do gooder.

so far on that vein (from what i've looked at) derro and shadar are good fits for the +sa as racial abilities w/o the huge +LA associated w/ something like dark stalkers.

what is the source for Rokugan Ninja?

[GilesTheCleric]

i looked all the way back to the beginning of the month and can't find it, can you link that thread?

My apologies, it was just over a week ago (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?526068-Which-Class-Is-Missing-From-3-5).

[jdizzlean]

My apologies, it was just over a week ago (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?526068-Which-Class-Is-Missing-From-3-5).

ahh, i missed your post, i was arguing later in that thread for an actual archer class worth a damn :)

[jdizzlean]

marrulurk looks quite promising, usually neutral is much better then usually evil. and at only a +1 LA it's free to do. Only thing to consider then, is not burning a lvl on a class worth the +2 CL i would gain from being an Illumian...

still looking :)

[Grod_The_Giant]

If you're at least 10th level, you can spend two feats on Martial Study (any Shadow Hand maneuver) and Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance); that's relatively non build-disruptive.

[Zombulian]

i looked all the way back to the beginning of the month and can't find it, can you link that thread?

in the mean time, i'll work on looking at the suggestions you and others have had.

only concern on some of them is that i can't play evil, so while some descriptions say "usually evil" or the like, i'd have to have one hell of a reason for playing one of those races/classes as a do gooder.

so far on that vein (from what i've looked at) derro and shadar are good fits for the +sa as racial abilities w/o the huge +LA associated w/ something like dark stalkers.

what is the source for Rokugan Ninja?

Rokugan Campaign Setting. It's D20 and WotC but idk if it's 1st Party for D&D specifically.

[Kaje]

Rokugan Campaign Setting. It's D20 and WotC but idk if it's 1st Party for D&D specifically.

Published by AEG, not WotC.

[jdizzlean]

Rokugan Campaign Setting. It's D20 and WotC but idk if it's 1st Party for D&D specifically.

i found that book, but it doesn't have a ninja class to look at...
there is ninja spy, but it's 2 lvl dip to get SA, it's not full bab, and there's no movement speed increase beyond jump/tumble

[Forrestfire]

marrulurk looks quite promising, usually neutral is much better then usually evil. and at only a +1 LA it's free to do. Only thing to consider then, is not burning a lvl on a class worth the +2 CL i would gain from being an Illumian...

still looking :)

They also have, iirc, 3 racial Hit Dice. Notable, if you only have one level to spare.

[Zombulian]

Published by AEG, not WotC.

Hmm well I think it says it's licensed by WotC because I had it in my hands when I wrote that.


i found that book, but it doesn't have a ninja class to look at...
there is ninja spy, but it's 2 lvl dip to get SA, it's not full bab, and there's no movement speed increase beyond jump/tumble

You're thinking of Oriental Adventures, which is first party material.

[jdizzlean]

what's the title of the other one then? because i can't find a single reference to it anywhere other then OA..

[Zombulian]

what's the title of the other one then? because i can't find a single reference to it anywhere other then OA..

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/l5r/images/1/1f/Rokugan_%28RPG%29.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120927192130

Exactly what I said.

Edit: Added that link while on my phone. I see now that it was a pretty crappy picture. My bad.

[jdizzlean]

thanks, i see it now.

alignment is unlawful, dishonourable :(

i might just be stuck w/ a lvl in rogue.

oh well.

[DEMON]

thanks, i see it now.

alignment is unlawful, dishonourable :(

i might just be stuck w/ a lvl in rogue.

oh well.

At what level are you dipping?

Because Swordsage might be a viable alternative later on.

[jdizzlean]

i don't have a planned lvl to dip at. i have to take 3 lvls of cleric if i do that first to qualify for church inquisitor

at some point, i have to take a lvl dip to qualify for SB Inquisitor, which if memory serves also requires a +5 BAB, so I'd have to have a few more levles of CI/dip to get to that.

I have to be a good guy, so chaotic/evil classes are a no no

It might be better to take the dip earlier in the build, if for no other reason than extra dmg (from sneaks) is extra dmg, even if it's only 1d6

[ViperMagnum357]

Since you mentioned racial, both Kapak and Venom Draconians from Dragons of Krynn gain 1d6 Sneak Attack as a racial bonus, but both are 2 RHD Dragons with +2 LA, which kinda defeats the purpose of smushing as many sneak attack dice into a build as possible. On the other hand, Dragon racial HD are solid and both get acceptable benefits for a rogue build if you can buy off the LA-including good natural poison and scaling SR.

[Zombulian]

i don't have a planned lvl to dip at. i have to take 3 lvls of cleric if i do that first to qualify for church inquisitor

at some point, i have to take a lvl dip to qualify for SB Inquisitor, which if memory serves also requires a +5 BAB, so I'd have to have a few more levles of CI/dip to get to that.

I have to be a good guy, so chaotic/evil classes are a no no

It might be better to take the dip earlier in the build, if for no other reason than extra dmg (from sneaks) is extra dmg, even if it's only 1d6

Chaotic = Not being a good guy?
You know there's 2 parts of the alignment spectrum for a reason right?

[DEMON]

Chaotic = Not being a good guy?
You know there's 2 parts of the alignment spectrum for a reason right?

He actually has to be LG, because that's one of Shadowbane Inquisitor's requirements.

Badly worded, but I think that's what he meant.

[Zombulian]

He actually has to be LG, because that's one of Shadowbane Inquisitor's requirements.

Badly worded, but I think that's what he meant.

Ah right, the PrC. Makes sense then.

[jdizzlean]

yes, sorry, crappy day at work.

plus, it fits the overall theme of the character anyways to be a LG fanatic