Absurd Multiclassing - Rogue/Ranger/Fighter for Ultimate Archer

[JBPuffin]

Simply put, I'm using MPMB's 5e Character Sheet, and I'm tinkering around with the idea of building an "ultimate archer" using Ranger, Rogue, and Fighter in combination (Action Surge+Hunter Features+Sneak Attack+lolz). Individually, each one of these can make a strong archer...but what happens if we glue them together? Assume no magic items when doing #s, all UA open season. I have no idea what will come of this, but it'll be awesome regardless :smallbiggrin:.

One Option - Sharpshooter Fighter 4, UA Hunter Conclave Ranger 6, Assassin Rogue 10. At one point I considered EK Fighter/AT Rogue for some nifty tricks (Grease, Shield, Expeditious Retreat - y'know, important defensive techniques...).

[MrWesson22]

Sharpshooter fighter is a trap. Battlemaster is simply better. We just finished up a level 1 to 20 campaign where I played a caster (19 abjuration wizard/1 life cleric), so I am building something different for this one. I am torn on breakdown though. I'm thinking 12 battlemaster fighter/3 deep stalker ua ranger/5 assassin rogue or 12 BM fighter/1 UA ranger/7 assassin. Deep stalker's extra attack in the first round plus assassin's instant crits on surprise round plus fighter action surge (and eventually 3 APR) would make for 7 or 8 attacks (depending on interpretation of deep stalkers extra attack getting doubled or not) that all have advantage and crit on hits in a surprise round at 17 if you went 11/3/3.

[Specter]

You know what fighter archetype would be good with that setup? Champion. A regular bow crit is nigh irrelevant, but when you have sneak attack, Hunter's Mark and Colossus Slayer riding on that attack AND you can hide for advantage (19,75% crit chance), suddenly you bring joy to the table.

As for the rogue archetype, you could Assassin up and get that monster surprise, but that's rare, so I'd recommend Arcane Trickster. At least you'll have a familiar and Minor Illusion to create instant concealment.

[Khrysaes]

I made a 8 fighter/4 Revised Spell-less Ranger(both from UA and don't conflict)/8 Rogue.
Battlemaster/Deepstalker/Arcane Trickster.

I think that spell-less ranger when going sub 5 ranger is better, especially when paired with a battlemaster. 4 more dice and 2 maneuvers is quite a boost to the fighter, not to mention Natural explorer and a second fighting style for both archery and close quarters shooter, helping to offset the sharpshooter feat.

Hunter or Monster Slayer ranger are good too, I wanted the improved stealth and darkvision from deep stalker though.

[MrWesson22]

Yeah, spellless is definitely better for just a few ranger levels - especially if you are also going at least 2 rogue so you have better things to do with bonus actions than hunters mark. That said, if you're going rogue as well, the deep stalker hide as a bonus action becomes redundant. Maybe a fighter/ranger/rogue would be better off as a hunter for colossus slayer.

Did you feel gaining those extra rogue levels for bigger sneak attack and evasion was worth it over going to fighter 11 for that third attack?

[Citan]

Sharpshooter fighter is a trap. Battlemaster is simply better. We just finished up a level 1 to 20 campaign where I played a caster (19 abjuration wizard/1 life cleric), so I am building something different for this one. I am torn on breakdown though. I'm thinking 12 battlemaster fighter/3 deep stalker ua ranger/5 assassin rogue or 12 BM fighter/1 UA ranger/7 assassin. Deep stalker's extra attack in the first round plus assassin's instant crits on surprise round plus fighter action surge (and eventually 3 APR) would make for 7 or 8 attacks (depending on interpretation of deep stalkers extra attack getting doubled or not) that all have advantage and crit on hits in a surprise round at 17 if you went 11/3/3.
1. Sharpshooter is not at all incompatible with taking Battlemaster archetype.
2. Sharpshooter is not a trap per se on a ranged Fighter. You just have to know when to use it and when not to, ask for some buff from friend (Faerie Fire / Bless / Elemental Weapon / Magic Weapon) or get those buffs yourself through feats or multiclassing.
An Eldricht Knight especially can find several ways to get advantage at any levels: Fog Cloud (requires you to have darkvision), Hold Person, Haste, Greater Invisibility all help much and are built-in for example.


Simply put, I'm using MPMB's 5e Character Sheet, and I'm tinkering around with the idea of building an "ultimate archer" using Ranger, Rogue, and Fighter in combination (Action Surge+Hunter Features+Sneak Attack+lolz). Individually, each one of these can make a strong archer...but what happens if we glue them together? Assume no magic items when doing #s, all UA open season. I have no idea what will come of this, but it'll be awesome regardless :smallbiggrin:.

One Option - Sharpshooter Fighter 4, UA Hunter Conclave Ranger 6, Assassin Rogue 10. At one point I considered EK Fighter/AT Rogue for some nifty tricks (Grease, Shield, Expeditious Retreat - y'know, important defensive techniques...).
I'd suggest you read this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?526911-Any-tips-for-an-Archery-focused-Fighter) in which are already several suggestions or ideas. ;)

One of my few favorite (theorical level 20) builds would probably be something along those lines (note ONLY official content, and not all of them aim to "most damage" only)...
CHA based (versatile)
- Eldricht Knight 11: War Magic, Eldricht Strike, Shield, Magic Missile, Mirror Image, 3rd Attack, Action Surge, weapon cantrips (if no Sorcerer).
- Swashbuckler Rogue 3: Sneak Attack, +CHA to Initiative, free disengage on melee attacks, Expertise in Stealth.
- Draconic Sorcerer 6 (for extra offense and Slow/Haste) or Lore Bard 6 (for Counterspell and Elemental Weapon, Cutting Words, skills). Sorcerer prefered usually because of choice of spells and metamagic.
Very versatile character: can apply strong debuffs on either a single target (Hold Person, Blindness) or a group (Slow) with very good chance of success (CHA+Eldricht Strike). Can buff himself to chain attacks, especially if an ally buffs his damage.
Can hold his own in melee when needed too and has great overall resilience (heavy armor + shield + Disengage as bonus action).
Only lacking department is healing if not taking Bard. Also note that Bard gives Bestow Curse. ^^

CHA based (single-target)
Eldricht Knight 11 / Wild Magic Sorcerer 9 with Distant metamagic, even better with a preemptive Bless (Magic Initiate or friend) or advantage by being hidden: Attack enemi(es), Action Surge (up)cast Hold Monster (or any other great single-target debuff), let your party enjoy trashing the poor ones.
When not using this kind of trick, you are still a great fighter. ;)
Note that for really single-target holder, a much better build would be Fighter 2 / Arcane Trickster 9 / Caster X: you can cast a spell to provide cover, Hide as a bonus action, then Action Surge cast your spell. Or if hiding requirements are already met, Hide as a bonus action, cast Hold Person/Monster/whatever then unleash a powerful Sneak Attack on paralyzed target: with Crossbow Expert, you could even afford to come within 5 feet for a crit.
Not the best trick imaginable though by far. ;)

WIS-based
Eldricht Knight 11 / Cleric 3 (Life or War) / Hunter Ranger 3 / Coast or Desert Druid 3: plenty of options to buff/heal/control, although lower level than others.
Although a plain Eldricht Knight 11 / Cleric 9 would work well too.

A more martial would be...
Battlemaster 11 / Spellless Ranger 3 / Thief 3 / Life Cleric 1 / Druid 1: provide some decent out-of healing with Life Goodberries, which he could eat (or make it) as bonus action too (IIRC), while dishing pretty serious damage with Bless, Sharpshooter and manoeuvers. ;)

INT-based
Eldricht Knight 12 / Bladesinger 5 / Arcane Trickster 3: with Haste and Cunning Action, can dish pretty serious damage while laughing out as enemies try to damage him (enough ASI to max DEX and INT, so Mage Armor + Bladesong means 23 AC before Shield/Haste). Could even grab some Expertise in Athletics and Crossbow Expert for extra fun (use an attack to Shove prone then unleash all your arrows point-blank).

Alternatively, Fighter 2 / Wizard (Bladesinger, Diviner, Abjurer) 18 works too: you will be much worse than the previous for most your life weapon attacks-wise, but once you get Simulacrum it should be good enough. + You get Haste, free Shield and Mirror Image, and all the great spells a Wizard can access. :)

[MrWesson22]

1. Sharpshooter is not at all incompatible with taking Battlemaster archetype.
2. Sharpshooter is not a trap per se on a ranged Fighter. You just have to know when to use it and when not to, ask for some buff from friend (Faerie Fire / Bless / Elemental Weapon / Magic Weapon) or get those buffs yourself through feats or multiclassing.

I was referring to the sharpshooter fighter subclass which is just a weaker battlemaster. I wasn't talking about the sharpshooter feat which is amazing.

[solidork]

If your GM doesn't houserule against using Haste to attack+ready attack, and you don't want to rely on someone else to cast it on you, Arcane Trickster 14 gives you the option of a reliable double sneak attack every round. You pick up the ability to grant advantage to yourself with Mage Hand.(You won't have advantage with your reaction attack)

I consider 'only' two uses of Haste to be far more reliable than getting a surprise sneak attack as an Assassin, but your mileage may vary.

[GlenSmash!]

I was referring to the sharpshooter fighter subclass which is just a weaker battlemaster. I wasn't talking about the sharpshooter feat which is amazing.

Indeed. Thanks to that UA we now have to differentiate between the Sharpshooter Feat, and the Sharpshooter Subclass of the Fighter, because obviously WotC couldn't have called it something else.

[Khrysaes]

Yeah, spellless is definitely better for just a few ranger levels - especially if you are also going at least 2 rogue so you have better things to do with bonus actions than hunters mark. That said, if you're going rogue as well, the deep stalker hide as a bonus action becomes redundant. Maybe a fighter/ranger/rogue would be better off as a hunter for colossus slayer.

Did you feel gaining those extra rogue levels for bigger sneak attack and evasion was worth it over going to fighter 11 for that third attack?

I was trying to build a character that was comparable or better than a PHB ranger.

The ranger gets 1 extra attack, Evasion OR uncanny dodge, if you take hunter, a max of level 5 spells, but I don't find much interest in spells, I just think that arcane trickster is more versatile than assassin. Ranger also gets a worse Cunning action with Vanish and in the revised version Fleet of Foot, at later levels.

In level order, I went fighter 1-5, ranger 1-2, fighter 6, rogue 1-4, then ranger 3-4, then rogue 5-8, finishing with fighter 7-8.

This gets the rogue abilities that are better than a ranger, at levels near where the ranger would get them. You don't delay the extra attack, and ranger 2 at character level 7 is better than fighter's 7th level at the same level. Other than extra attack, I didn't particularly want anything above fighter 8, so I opted for more ASI, Sneak attack, and expertise & evasion.

I could see the same build functioning with only rogue 5 or ranger 2. Giving you plenty of opportunity for 3 more levels of fighter. I just didn't see the need for it.

[Citan]

I was referring to the sharpshooter fighter subclass which is just a weaker battlemaster. I wasn't talking about the sharpshooter feat which is amazing.

Oh ok my bad then. I was totally unaware such an archetype had been released in UA I suppose it is from a recent one...

[Aerogellin]

Here's the build I'm playing right now (Currently level 7)

Revised Ranger 5 (Fighting Style (Archery), Deep Stalker) > Rogue 4 (Assassin) > Fighter 4 (Fighting Style (Close-quarters shooter), Battlemaster) > Rogue 4 > Revised Ranger 3
Feats: Sharpshooter, Resilient (Constitution), Lucky

At the end of the build the first turn is:

Bonus Action: Hunters Mark
Action: Attack
1st Attack: 1d20+8 (5 (Agility) +2 (Archery) +1 (Close-Quarters Shooter) + 5 (Proficiency) -5 (Sharpshooter)). 1d6 (Hunters Mark)+4d6 (Sneak Attack) +1d8 (Longbow) +5 (Agility) +10 (Sharpshooter)
2nd Attack: 1d20+8. 1d6 (Hunters Mark) +1d8 (Longbow) +5 (Agility) +10 (Sharpshooter)
3rd Attack: 1d20+8. 1d6 (Hunters Mark) +1d8 (Longbow) +5 (Agility) +10 (Sharpshooter)
Action Surge: Attack
4th Attack: 1d20+8. 1d6 (Hunters Mark) +1d8 (Longbow) +5 (Agility) +10 (Sharpshooter)
5th Attack: 1d20+8. 1d6 (Hunters Mark) +1d8 (Longbow) +5 (Agility) +10 (Sharpshooter)
6th Attack: 1d20+8. 1d6 (Hunters Mark) +1d8 (Longbow) +5 (Agility) +10 (Sharpshooter)

If attacking a creature that hasn't taken a turn yet, advantage on all those attacks.
If attacking a creature that is surprised, all attacks are crits
Battlemaster Maneuver Precision Attack for any low rolls, or Lucky if you have it.
Battlemaster Maneuver Menacing Attack for attacks 3-6 unless Precision Attack is needed

Sprinkle with Bracers of Archery, an Oathbow, Arrows of Slaying, Oil of Sharpness, and some poison and it can put out some decent damage.