Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder

[Athear]

So my DM and I like to troll each other. so I want to know whats the Cheeziest most god awfully power gamed build I could make in pathfinder with out using any 3rd party books or home-brew.
I want to have a truly villainous character that is OP as hell to show my DM just to make him cringe lol
this is for an 8th level game.
so again we can go full ham on this.

[prototype00]

Let me tell you, my friend, about the Conqueror Ooze.

A Cave Druid who wildshapes into a Carnivorous Crystal Ooze with a 7d8 Slam attack, which he Strong Jaws for a 14d8 Slam attack.

He then goes into Martial Artist Monk to be able to full attack with that 14d8 slam and also becomes immune to fatigue.

Then he Multis into Barbarian for Furious Finish so that that 14d8 is maximised with improved and greater vital strike for a total of 56d8 maximised dice (448 damage just from weapon dice alone) which is enough to One Punch Man most enemies. Because you are immune to fatigue, you can rage cycle and do this every round.

Ta dah?

[prototype00]

Let me tell you, my friend, about the Conqueror Ooze.

A Cave Druid who wildshapes into a Carnivorous Crystal Ooze with a 7d8 Slam attack, which he Strong Jaws for a 14d8 Slam attack.

He then goes into Martial Artist Monk to be able to full attack with that 14d8 slam and also becomes immune to fatigue.

Then he Multis into Barbarian for Furious Finish so that that 14d8 is maximised with improved and greater vital strike for a total of 56d8 maximised dice (448 damage just from weapon dice alone) which is enough to One Punch Man most enemies. Because you are immune to fatigue, you can rage cycle and do this every round.

Ta dah?

Oh, 8th level, well you can still flurry with a 7d8 slam at least.

[Korahir]

Let me tell you, my friend, about the Conqueror Ooze.

A Cave Druid who wildshapes into a Carnivorous Crystal Ooze with a 7d8 Slam attack, which he Strong Jaws for a 14d8 Slam attack.

He then goes into Martial Artist Monk to be able to full attack with that 14d8 slam and also becomes immune to fatigue.

Then he Multis into Barbarian for Furious Finish so that that 14d8 is maximised with improved and greater vital strike for a total of 56d8 maximised dice (448 damage just from weapon dice alone) which is enough to One Punch Man most enemies. Because you are immune to fatigue, you can rage cycle and do this every round.

Ta dah?

10 ft. movespeed. Even with the buffs from monk and barbarian this is not only a weak point. This is a gigantic problem.

@OP: No only being a troll, but being a lazy troll on top is what makes me refuse to help you. Just google a build. Plenty of them out there.

[stanprollyright]

half-orc thug unchained rogue/snakebite striker brawler

1 rogue 1: weapon finesse, sap adept, sneak attack 1d6
2 brawler 1: unarmed strike, sneak attack 2d6
3 rogue 2: evasion, weapon training (unarmed), enforcer
4 rogue 3: finesse training (unarmed), sneak attack 3d6
5 brawler 2: brawler's flurry, sap master, dazzling display(b)
6 rogue 4
7 rogue 5: accomplished sneak attacker 5d6
8 rogue 6: combat trick (shatter defenses)

Completely dex-based, doing 10d6+10 nonlethal sneak attack per attack with brawler's flurry, and free demoralize w/ shatter defenses on hit.

edit: With all 3 attacks and 20 dex, that's 33d6+45, or an average of 160.5 dmg

[prototype00]

10 ft. movespeed. Even with the buffs from monk and barbarian this is not only a weak point. This is a gigantic problem.

@OP: No only being a troll, but being a lazy troll on top is what makes me refuse to help you. Just google a build. Plenty of them out there.

20ft with the Monk levels, you need at least 5 of them. 30ft with the barbarian levels. What is the difference with a regular character?

prototype00

[Korahir]

20ft with the Monk levels, you need at least 5 of them 30ft with the barbarian levels. What is the difference with a regular character?

prototype00
Sorry for being short on words in my last post. I'll do better:
You need ten levels of druid, then five more of monk and a single level in barbarian. That means you are at least level 16. If I take greater Vital strike into consideration you need BAB +16. This means you are at least level 19 (10 druid, 5 monk and 4 barb or 8 monk and 1 barb; if the monk levels are unchained monk levels).
Regular characters at level 19 mostly fly in combat. So do enemies. You cannot use Wings of flying or any magic item that must be activated while wild shaped so it is highly likely that you stay on the ground. You would need to pay 60.000 GP to create a custom magic item of continuous fly that is use activated. Good luck finding a DM agreeing to that knowing your build. The obvious solution is getting another PC to cast fly for you but then you are susceptible to dispel magic or worse antimagic fields. Of course these hit anyone who rely on the fly spell but in your case it also invalidates half of your level progression because you cannot do the one trick you spent all those monk levels on.
Next problem I have: why exactly does the monk allow you to flurry with natural attacks because natural attacks are not unarmed strikes. So you cannot flurry with the slam. The rage cycle vital strike combo is legit although you only attack once (the attack action is a standard action). You are limited to your rage rounds which highly depends on how much barbarbarian levels you took. I'd reccomend you take quick wild shape to be able to go: move action to get close in non ooze form, free action rage, swift action wild shape, standard action greater vital strike. Then boom goes the dynamite. Why do you need the immunity to fatigue? Spending 5 levels on monk for that seems pointless to me. There surely are easier solutions (i.e. quickened lesser restoration, swift action which substitues for the swift action wild shape, heart of the fields: human racial trait, ignore fatigue once per day) if you need to hit in two consecutive rounds. So human druid 14/ barbarian 6 seems more legit to me. It has more wild shapes per day, more rages per day and more a better spells per day. You are limited to 20 ft. movement in Ooze form but only in the second round. Druid 19/barb 1 may even be better overall since greater vital strike is a major damage boost (damage from one slam would drop to 224) but you may be more useful overall.

[prototype00]

Sorry for being short on words in my last post. I'll do better:
You need ten levels of druid, then five more of monk and a single level in barbarian. That means you are at least level 16. If I take greater Vital strike into consideration you need BAB +16. This means you are at least level 19 (10 druid, 5 monk and 4 barb or 8 monk and 1 barb; if the monk levels are unchained monk levels).

Yes I noticed that its only to 8th level, I posted as much later.


Regular characters at level 19 mostly fly in combat. So do enemies. You cannot use Wings of flying or any magic item that must be activated while wild shaped so it is highly likely that you stay on the ground. You would need to pay 60.000 GP to create a custom magic item of continuous fly that is use activated. Good luck finding a DM agreeing to that knowing your build. The obvious solution is getting another PC to cast fly for you but then you are susceptible to dispel magic or worse antimagic fields. Of course these hit anyone who rely on the fly spell but in your case it also invalidates half of your level progression because you cannot do the one trick you spent all those monk levels on.

You've got multiple levels of primary spellcaster, why not just cast air-walk? And Antimagic fields screw everybody. If the party mage knows what you can do and doesn't cast overland flight for the party, then it's his loss.


Next problem I have: why exactly does the monk allow you to flurry with natural attacks because natural attacks are not unarmed strikes. So you cannot flurry with the slam.

Feral combat Training (Slam), I too was being parsimonious with my words.


The rage cycle vital strike combo is legit although you only attack once (the attack action is a standard action). You are limited to your rage rounds which highly depends on how much barbarbarian levels you took. I'd reccomend you take quick wild shape to be able to go: move action to get close in non ooze form, free action rage, swift action wild shape, standard action greater vital strike. Then boom goes the dynamite. Why do you need the immunity to fatigue?

Furious finish immediately ends your rage. Then you become fatigued, and cannot enter a rage again as per the rules. If you are immune to fatigue, this solves the problem.


Spending 5 levels on monk for that seems pointless to me.

Its for immunity to fatigue, flurry of blows with the slam (the only way to get a full attack with the slam, if you have more than one foe, you probably want to hit them too) and improved movement speed, all things the build desperately requires.


There surely are easier solutions (i.e. quickened lesser restoration, swift action which substitues for the swift action wild shape, heart of the fields: human racial trait, ignore fatigue once per day) if you need to hit in two consecutive rounds. So human druid 14/ barbarian 6 seems more legit to me. It has more wild shapes per day, more rages per day and more a better spells per day. You are limited to 20 ft. movement in Ooze form but only in the second round. Druid 19/barb 1 may even be better overall since greater vital strike is a major damage boost (damage from one slam would drop to 224) but you may be more useful overall.

What if you are facing 4 or more enemies (I think this is basically more than 50% of encounters in adventure paths)? I mean, yes you can spend resources to remove fatigue, but for the 5 monk levels, you never have to worry about it ever again.

You are right in saying spells are more useful, overall, but I made this build to splat Balors in one hit, why put my eggs in other baskets?

[Korahir]

Yes I noticed that its only to 8th level, I posted as much later.
You've got multiple levels of primary spellcaster, why not just cast air-walk? And Antimagic fields screw everybody. If the party mage knows what you can do and doesn't cast overland flight for the party, then it's his loss.

You are still a 30 feet slow ooze walking on air which is significantly slower than fly and most fly speeds. Of course your other mates would buff you, but let's not quarrel about how you come close, I think Quick wild shape is the best solution for that and can be included in the build even if you take 5 levels of monk (Druid 14, Monk 5, Barb 1).



Feral combat Training (Slam), I too was being parsimonious with my words.

Thanks for pointing to that, missed that one completely in Ultimate combat.



Furious finish immediately ends your rage. Then you become fatigued, and cannot enter a rage again as per the rules. If you are immune to fatigue, this solves the problem.

Yes I know. Removing fatigue as a swift action or simply ignoring it once per day solves the problem too. Doesn't require 5 levels of monk either.



Its for immunity to fatigue, flurry of blows with the slam (the only way to get a full attack with the slam, if you have more than one foe, you probably want to hit them too) and improved movement speed, all things the build desperately requires.

Flurry makes sense now. The immunity to fatigue simply doesn't outweigh the loss of spells in my opinion. I still wouldn't go further than monk 1.




What if you are facing 4 or more enemies (I think this is basically more than 50% of encounters in adventure paths)?

This is pretty much exactly my point: I don't think your 30 ft. move speed is enough to run after 4 enemies and one shot them. At best you kill one or two off and then the rest either showers you in their best abilities or kite you. So why not fight in a more versatile form (i.e. any bird, air elemental or just non wild shaped), use your spells and magic items with use activation and when the opportunity presents itself go for the one hit kill.



You are right in saying spells are more useful, overall, but I made this build to splat Balors in one hit, why put my eggs in other baskets?
Something I missed in your initial post: strong jaws doesn't double your damage, it increases it by two steps. Which turns 7d8 into 12d6 (check the natural attack progression table in the FAQ on the SRD). So greater vital strike deals 48x6 = 288 damage. Now let's assume strength 24 or 26 in Ooze shape and add +7 or +8 to that value and maybe some temporary boni of relevant damage: lets say you ball park around 300 damage. That is 70 less than a Balor's HP (ignoring his DR of 15). It is enough to one shot a Cornugon (horned devil, CR 16). So still impressive but in my opinion not enough payoff to sacrifice so much casting power. After having mulled over this I think my final approach would be: druid 18/monk 1/barb 1.

[prototype00]

To each their own, for the speed I personally pick up the Rage power Swift Foot x3, so thats 45 ft, I mean, sure I could be fighting the Flash, but its usually enough to close with everything else, or did you have more quibbles?

Ah, they faq'ed damage dice, about time too. Well 48d6 is still better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

As to the monk levels, you strike me as someone who doesn't want to be convinced, so lets just say I think the immunity to fatigue for Rage Cycling is worth it, and you don't and leave it at that. You do what you want with the build, I was only the one to make it after all, I'm not going to come around your house with a billy club for tinkering with my build.

prototype00

[eldskald]

Something I missed in your initial post: strong jaws doesn't double your damage, it increases it by two steps. Which turns 7d8 into 12d6 (check the natural attack progression table in the FAQ on the SRD). So greater vital strike deals 48x6 = 288 damage. Now let's assume strength 24 or 26 in Ooze shape and add +7 or +8 to that value and maybe some temporary boni of relevant damage: lets say you ball park around 300 damage. That is 70 less than a Balor's HP (ignoring his DR of 15). It is enough to one shot a Cornugon (horned devil, CR 16). So still impressive but in my opinion not enough payoff to sacrifice so much casting power. After having mulled over this I think my final approach would be: druid 18/monk 1/barb 1.

Actually, the table in the FAQ rises 7d8 to 16d6. It says that to rise by one step, you actually go two steps on the table, and when you have a number of d8's not listed in the table, you pick the next highest number in the table and use it as d6's. So 7d8 is 8d6, which rises to 12d6, which finally rises to 16d6. Greater vital strike is 64d6, which deals 384 with Furious Finish. That means you only need a +1 Str mod to one shot a Balor through its DR, supposing you are not using Magic Fang or similar stuff.

[Korahir]

Actually, the table in the FAQ rises 7d8 to 16d6. It says that to rise by one step, you actually go two steps on the table, and when you have a number of d8's not listed in the table, you pick the next highest number in the table and use it as d6's. So 7d8 is 8d6, which rises to 12d6, which finally rises to 16d6. Greater vital strike is 64d6, which deals 384 with Furious Finish. That means you only need a +1 Str mod to one shot a Balor through its DR, supposing you are not using Magic Fang or similar stuff.

True. Did overlook the fact that one size increase is two steps not one. So the Balor is still toast. Thanks for clearing that up.

@prototype00
You already convinced me about many things. I simply value 9th level spells higher than you. If you would make me choose between one slamming every encounter in the bestiary and 9th levels spells, I'd choose 9th level spells. Agreed to disagree I guess. Props for the build too, it is well done.

[Athear]

10 ft. movespeed. Even with the buffs from monk and barbarian this is not only a weak point. This is a gigantic problem.

@OP: No only being a troll, but being a lazy troll on top is what makes me refuse to help you. Just google a build. Plenty of them out there.

I love how you just assume I didn't do any research on my own there just isn't allot for pathfinder that i found. so i asked for help to make a joke

[Athear]

@ prototype00
It is indeed a interesting build really did not expect the ooze lol
and I know as a DM I probably ban hammer it lol thanks mate XD I think my DM will laugh.
unfortunately this build doesn't work for me after running the numbers my self you don't get wild shape ooze until level 10 druid.

[exelsisxax]

Can someone explain why you think you get the 7d8 damage slam? This is pathfinder, not 3.5. You gain a slam attack, but it deals 1d4 damage. Beast shape IS NOT going to give you Razor Sharp, which is presumably the thing making that damage happen.

[Korahir]

Can someone explain why you think you get the 7d8 damage slam? This is pathfinder, not 3.5. You gain a slam attack, but it deals 1d4 damage. Beast shape IS NOT going to give you Razor Sharp, which is presumably the thing making that damage happen.
Razor sharp increases the crit range. The slam damage is not linked to any ability.

[exelsisxax]

Razor sharp increases the crit range. The slam damage is not linked to any ability.

Doesn't solve the problem even if it were true, which it is clearly not by the description of the ability. Polymorph effects grant you the natural attacks, but none of their statistics. You get "a slam", not a +18 7d8+9 slam. You usually get what's listed, but only because most monsters follow standard progression and are merely size based.

[eldskald]

Doesn't solve the problem even if it were true, which it is clearly not by the description of the ability. Polymorph effects grant you the natural attacks, but none of their statistics. You get "a slam", not a +18 7d8+9 slam. You usually get what's listed, but only because most monsters follow standard progression and are merely size based.

Natural attack damage is linked to each creature, there is no standard damage for each natural attack. Like some playable medium races who get a bite attack for 1d4 instead of 1d6, this medium ooze gets a 7d8 slam instead of a 1d4 one.

[Azoth]

You could always cheese a build using the Mage Guild bonuses from Inner Sea Magic. All to easy to make up 1-3 CL including spell progression for some gold and trivial skill checks. At 35 Fame so level 7-8 depending, you could make up 3CL in one class and 1CL in another.

So things like Paladin2/Scaled Monk1/Sorcerer5 will cast like a level 8 Sorc with Cha to saves and AC. Throw in some Favored Prestige Class and you can Gish into DD/EK and still be a full caster.

Wiz3/Cleric1/MT4 using Equipment Trick Sunrod (Like the Sun) for early entry will cast as a Wiz8/Cleric8.

Could always go party of 1. Play a tier 1 caster grab a UMD using Improved Familiar and a tanky Animal Companion and enjoy being a one man army.

[Korahir]

Doesn't solve the problem even if it were true, which it is clearly not by the description of the ability. Polymorph effects grant you the natural attacks, but none of their statistics. You get "a slam", not a +18 7d8+9 slam. You usually get what's listed, but only because most monsters follow standard progression and are merely size based.

Not sure what part of my post wasn't true. The first sentence of razor sharp doesn't contain any word linked to a rule. It is merely descriptive. Just like the first sentence of the ooze's subsonic hum ability. This is what the text would have to say to justify your interpretation:
Razor Sharp
The slam attack of a carnivorous crystal deals 7d8 damage instead of the usual 1d4 for s medium creature.
Then it would be an Ex ability increasing the slam damage. Thex way it is written it is an Ex ability that increases crit range.

[prototype00]

Doesn't solve the problem even if it were true, which it is clearly not by the description of the ability. Polymorph effects grant you the natural attacks, but none of their statistics. You get "a slam", not a +18 7d8+9 slam. You usually get what's listed, but only because most monsters follow standard progression and are merely size based.

This argument sounds familiar, were you on the paizo boards when I first posted this exelsisxax?

[Athear]

You could always cheese a build using the Mage Guild bonuses from Inner Sea Magic. All to easy to make up 1-3 CL including spell progression for some gold and trivial skill checks. At 35 Fame so level 7-8 depending, you could make up 3CL in one class and 1CL in another.

So things like Paladin2/Scaled Monk1/Sorcerer5 will cast like a level 8 Sorc with Cha to saves and AC. Throw in some Favored Prestige Class and you can Gish into DD/EK and still be a full caster.

Wiz3/Cleric1/MT4 using Equipment Trick Sunrod (Like the Sun) for early entry will cast as a Wiz8/Cleric8.

Could always go party of 1. Play a tier 1 caster grab a UMD using Improved Familiar and a tanky Animal Companion and enjoy being a one man army.

I'm not a fan of wizards, so cleric would be a tier one caster? also MT4 what is that
also Can you link my the page for mage guild bonuses.

[Sayt]

Doesn't solve the problem even if it were true, which it is clearly not by the description of the ability. Polymorph effects grant you the natural attacks, but none of their statistics. You get "a slam", not a +18 7d8+9 slam. You usually get what's listed, but only because most monsters follow standard progression and are merely size based.

This is not consistent with Pathfinder's printed material in the Pathfinder RPG hardcover line. Villain Codex page 148 has a tenth level druid wildshaped into a behemoth hippopotamus with an 8d8 sized bite attack ( up from 4d8, accounting for them having strongjaw cast on themselves). Furthermore, the Polymorph rules state you gain the natural attacks "of the base creature". There are default natural weapon sizes listed under the univeral monster rules, IIRC, but the polymorph rules don't cite them, they cite the creature you're polymorphed into.

[eldskald]

The thing is, there is no such thing as "You get a slam". It is always "You get an X base damage slam". The same is true for all other natural attacks, as there are many different ways to get natural attacks, all of them stating their base damage and for some of them it's different.

[Azoth]

I'm not a fan of wizards, so cleric would be a tier one caster? also MT4 what is that
also Can you link my the page for mage guild bonuses.

Sorry, MT is Mystic Theurge. DD was Dragon Disciple. EK was Eldritch Knight.

The basic party of 1 trick done on a Cleric would require a Domain that gives a full scaling Animal Companion or taking the feat that raises Druid level by 4, Skill Focus Knowledge (any), Eldritch Heritage (Arcane), and then Improved Familiar. So a base Charisma of 13 and 3 feats.

Unfortunately I am afb, so I can't do much to help with Inner Sea Magic.

[Psyren]

The cheesiest build will probably involve Sacred Geometry and Ascendant Spell. Beyond that though, PF tends to have a lower ceiling than 3.5.

[eldskald]

I loved this build! So, I've been doing some research and I found some interesting stuff. First, I've looked into basically all (most, actually) animals, giants and stuff to wild shape into to see if we had other interesting options beside this infamous ooze. Since we need strong jaw, we must find a high base damage natural attacker. The ones I found so far were the Behemoth Hippopotamus and the Arsinoitherium, both with a single 4d8 base natural attack, the hippo with a bite and the other with a gore. They're both animals, so no need to get frisky with druid archetypes. The thing we were not including in our calculations is the Improved Natural Attack feat.

To qualify for this feat, all we need is a permanent natural attack. Skinwalkers are the best bet for it, they can even get a gore attack. Other races can easily get a bite attack with the Adopted (Tusked) trait. The feat would pump the 4d8 into 6d8, so that strong jaws make it into 12d8. Guess what, 12d8 Furious Finish is the same damage as a 16d6 one! So you don't need to morph into the ooze to deal 384 base damage and one shot stuff, a big hippo or that weird rhino can both do the same damage as the ooze with the help of this one feat. Of course, that feat could help the ooze too if only we could get a natural slam attack. I didn't find a way to do so, though. Any ideas?

Secondly, lesser restoration has a 3 rounds casting time. We can't quicken it! I found another way to be imune to fatigue, though. You can dip 1 level into Oracle for the Lame curse. The trick is that the curse scales with oracle level plus every 2 other levels. So 1 level into oracle plus 8 levels into anything gives us immunity to fatigue. As a drawback, our land speed goes down. It's not so bad because barbarian gives us more speed, but it could be a problem if we were morphing into the ooze. Also, it's only land speed, so that means nothing when we fly. Also, there's this item called Cord of Stubborn Resolve that gives us immunity to fatigue too, though it occupies the important belt slot.

What do you think?

[prototype00]

I loved this build! So, I've been doing some research and I found some interesting stuff. First, I've looked into basically all (most, actually) animals, giants and stuff to wild shape into to see if we had other interesting options beside this infamous ooze. Since we need strong jaw, we must find a high base damage natural attacker. The ones I found so far were the Behemoth Hippopotamus and the Arsinoitherium, both with a single 4d8 base natural attack, the hippo with a bite and the other with a gore. They're both animals, so no need to get frisky with druid archetypes. The thing we were not including in our calculations is the Improved Natural Attack feat.

To qualify for this feat, all we need is a permanent natural attack. Skinwalkers are the best bet for it, they can even get a gore attack. Other races can easily get a bite attack with the Adopted (Tusked) trait. The feat would pump the 4d8 into 6d8, so that strong jaws make it into 12d8. Guess what, 12d8 Furious Finish is the same damage as a 16d6 one! So you don't need to morph into the ooze to deal 384 base damage and one shot stuff, a big hippo or that weird rhino can both do the same damage as the ooze with the help of this one feat. Of course, that feat could help the ooze too if only we could get a natural slam attack. I didn't find a way to do so, though. Any ideas?

Secondly, lesser restoration has a 3 rounds casting time. We can't quicken it! I found another way to be imune to fatigue, though. You can dip 1 level into Oracle for the Lame curse. The trick is that the curse scales with oracle level plus every 2 other levels. So 1 level into oracle plus 8 levels into anything gives us immunity to fatigue. As a drawback, our land speed goes down. It's not so bad because barbarian gives us more speed, but it could be a problem if we were morphing into the ooze. Also, it's only land speed, so that means nothing when we fly. Also, there's this item called Cord of Stubborn Resolve that gives us immunity to fatigue too, though it occupies the important belt slot.

What do you think?

One caveat, I was going over the errata about size of weapons, and it states you can only have one actual size increase and one "as if" size increase to damage. Becoming a huge angry hippo is an actual size increase, and applying Strong Jaw is an "as if" size increase. Improved Natural Attack is also an "as if" size increase to damage, and thus does not stack if I don't miss my guess. So Hippos and Rhinos get 8d8 damage (32d8 with greater vital strike), nice but no Conqueror Ooze.

prototype00

[eldskald]

One caveat, I was going over the errata about size of weapons, and it states you can only have one actual size increase and one "as if" size increase to damage. Becoming a huge angry hippo is an actual size increase, and applying Strong Jaw is an "as if" size increase. Improved Natural Attack is also an "as if" size increase to damage, and thus does not stack if I don't miss my guess. So Hippos and Rhinos get 8d8 damage (32d8 with greater vital strike), nice but no Conqueror Ooze.

prototype00

Oh, I see. That's sad, then. But becoming the huge hippo is not actually a size increase, you can still cast Animal Growth on you. It will cost you another action, which might be a lot if you can't buff before the encounter. I hope you have a good scout. There is also another way to become big, and that is being lv4 Bloodrager with the abyssal bloodline. This way, you grow in size when you rage, no matter your creature type. You could use this to make the ooze grow bigger too, going for absurd amounts of cheese! So, instead of barbarian 1 and monk 5, you could go bloodrager 4 and oracle 1. You will have rage, immunity to fatigue and a size increase. There is no more table beyond 16d6 damage, but following the logic, I think it should rise to 24d6. That would go to a whooping 96d6 vital strike, dealing 576 absurds amount of damage in one punch! That would be the ultimate ooze!


You could always cheese a build using the Mage Guild bonuses from Inner Sea Magic. All to easy to make up 1-3 CL including spell progression for some gold and trivial skill checks. At 35 Fame so level 7-8 depending, you could make up 3CL in one class and 1CL in another.

So things like Paladin2/Scaled Monk1/Sorcerer5 will cast like a level 8 Sorc with Cha to saves and AC. Throw in some Favored Prestige Class and you can Gish into DD/EK and still be a full caster.

Wiz3/Cleric1/MT4 using Equipment Trick Sunrod (Like the Sun) for early entry will cast as a Wiz8/Cleric8.

Could always go party of 1. Play a tier 1 caster grab a UMD using Improved Familiar and a tanky Animal Companion and enjoy being a one man army.

Whoah, that's some cheese right there! I checked Inner Sea Magic to understand it, and it states that the guild bonus only rises effective caster level. Other class features aren't affected, so either the animal companion or the familiar won't scale any further. The full casting gish is interesting, though. The DD can be absurd with natural attacks and won't be a one trick pony like most cheese builds.

[Malacandra]

One caveat, I was going over the errata about size of weapons, and it states you can only have one actual size increase and one "as if" size increase to damage. Becoming a huge angry hippo is an actual size increase, and applying Strong Jaw is an "as if" size increase. Improved Natural Attack is also an "as if" size increase to damage, and thus does not stack if I don't miss my guess. So Hippos and Rhinos get 8d8 damage (32d8 with greater vital strike), nice but no Conqueror Ooze.

prototype00

Chiming in, since a Behemoth Hippo is a critter in its own right, not a Hippo with a size increase applied, surely it can have Strong Jaw for the two-level increase, although it doesn't stack with INA.

4d8 Strong Jaws up to 12d6 and then on through the vital strike chain.

[gkathellar]

By RAW you get sneak attack damage on Demoralize. Can't get cheesier than that.

[prototype00]

Oh, I see. That's sad, then. But becoming the huge hippo is not actually a size increase, you can still cast Animal Growth on you. It will cost you another action, which might be a lot if you can't buff before the encounter. I hope you have a good scout. There is also another way to become big, and that is being lv4 Bloodrager with the abyssal bloodline. This way, you grow in size when you rage, no matter your creature type. You could use this to make the ooze grow bigger too, going for absurd amounts of cheese! So, instead of barbarian 1 and monk 5, you could go bloodrager 4 and oracle 1. You will have rage, immunity to fatigue and a size increase. There is no more table beyond 16d6 damage, but following the logic, I think it should rise to 24d6. That would go to a whooping 96d6 vital strike, dealing 576 absurds amount of damage in one punch! That would be the ultimate ooze!


In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

Kinda precludes that as Wild Shape is for all intents Beast Shape I-III.

[prototype00]

Chiming in, since a Behemoth Hippo is a critter in its own right, not a Hippo with a size increase applied, surely it can have Strong Jaw for the two-level increase, although it doesn't stack with INA.

4d8 Strong Jaws up to 12d6 and then on through the vital strike chain.

Since 4d8 is an actual value in the chart, it just increases -> 6d8 and -> 8d8.

Hungry Hungry Hippo (what we are discussing) was a pretty popular build in the boards IIRC.

[Azoth]

Whoah, that's some cheese right there! I checked Inner Sea Magic to understand it, and it states that the guild bonus only rises effective caster level. Other class features aren't affected, so either the animal companion or the familiar won't scale any further. The full casting gish is interesting, though. The DD can be absurd with natural attacks and won't be a one trick pony like most cheese builds.

Generally you don't combine the casting cheese with the "party of one" trick. It can be done though, but requires a bit different set up.

Say you go Human Wiz3/Cleric1/Mystic Theurge6/Evangelist10. Trade your bonus feat for Eye for Talent, you will apply this to your Animal companion's Int.

Grab Conjuration (Teleportation), Divination (Foresight), or Void as your Arcane school. Then grab any combination of Travel, Trickery, Feather as your Cleric domains. These are the best options for your limited levels to get powers that are useful without scaling.

Grab a familiar as your Arcane bond. Improved Familiar will only care about CL, so you can still grab a Fairie Dragon, Imp, or other UMD familiar. It will use your ranks in UMD regardless of your effective Wizard level so enjoy your shoulder mounted buff/heal/status removal turret.

Burn 3 feats on Nature Soul, Animal Ally, Boon Companion. This will get you a full scaling Wolf, so decent middle of the road animal companion. Since it has a starting Int of 4, it's first two feats are Dirty Fighting (counts as combat Expertise and gets around Int 13 req) and Extra Traits (Adopted (Halfling) Helpful, and Fool for Friends). From here make it a Trip build with the bodyguard line of feats. Give it benevolent barding, and a benevolent Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Dragontrip Guisarme's unique property.

This gives you a mobile platform that can easily trip enemies even winged fliers. When that isn't applicable it can give you +10 to hit for your ranged touch spells, and sac an AoO to give +10AC against an enemy for the entire turn.

I had a build for this before Mythweavers crashed. It was a beauty and downright mean.

[unseenmage]

Make Simulacrums or Trompe L'oeils (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/trompe-l-oeil-cr-1/) of Animated Objects of technological artifacts (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/EquipmentTechArtifacts.aspx).

[eldskald]

Kinda precludes that as Wild Shape is for all intents Beast Shape I-III.

As written, Wild Shape is a supernatural ability, not a spell-like one. So that shouldn't be a problem, since it's not a spell that changes your size.

EDIT: Bloodrager's growth ability is also supernatural, and that's really what matters.