Best metamagic feats if no level increase

[molten_dragon]

I'm playing an Arcanist in an upcoming mythic campaign. Arcanists are already pretty good at metamagic with but I saw the arcane metamastery ability and immediately decided I needed to take that a lot of times (4 to be specific). So what metamagic feats should I be taking to use with this ability? Echoing spell looks really good. Quicken spell is a given. What else?

[Shadowquad]

Take a look at the Metamagician property of legendary items. It allows you to spend mythic power uses instead of level increases for metamagic feats. If you couple it with the Eldritch Reciprocation Archmage path ability, it's almost as effective as 4 arcane metamasteries, for half the investment (plus a lot of other legendary item goodies).

Now, regarding your question, Dazing Spell is insane for turning blast spells into BFC effects, as is Persistent Spell, for when you really need the BBEG to fail its save.

[molten_dragon]

Take a look at the Metamagician property of legendary items. It allows you to spend mythic power uses instead of level increases for metamagic feats. If you couple it with the Eldritch Reciprocation Archmage path ability, it's almost as effective as 4 arcane metamasteries, for half the investment (plus a lot of other legendary item goodies).

How so? Quickening a spell with Metamagician would use up 4 uses of mythic power instead of 1. And Arcane metamastery gives you 10 rounds of free metamagic for a single use of mythic power. Even if you only use it for a +1 metamagic feat, it's still 10 times as efficient as metamagician. If you're quickening spells it's 40 times as efficient. I realize it takes up 4 times as many path abilities as a legendary item with Metamagician, but it seems enough better to be worth it. And there weren't that many path abilities that were as balls-out awesome as Arcane metamastery, so I don't mind spending 4 of my path abilities on it. And I plan on taking eldritch reciprocation anyway, but having to take (and then heal) at least 25 HP for each metamagic increase with metamagician would get pretty resource intensive.


Now, regarding your question, Dazing Spell is insane for turning blast spells into BFC effects, as is Persistent Spell, for when you really need the BBEG to fail its save.

Ooh, I like that, I'll definitely be taking dazing spell.

[Shadowquad]

You can mitigate the HP loss caused by Eldritch Reciprocation with the Rejuvenating legendary item ability. Now all you need for complete out-of-combat mythic power regeneration is a reliable source of arcane damage.

If your DM allows custom magic items, you can buy an at-will item of CL 5 shocking grasp for 9000 GP, or craft it for half as much. If not, you can always buy or craft CL 5 wands, which puts the cost of regaining a single use of mythic power at 75 GP.

As for the usefulness of Arcane Metamastery, I don't deny it, but I think it's limited by several factors:
- It costs a swift action to activate which are, as a mythic caster, one of your most precious resources
- You can only have one metamagic feat active at the same time, so no Dazing Quickened spell on a given turn
Basically, as Quicken spell is the best option, you'll probably be defaulting to it, and seldom use your other metamagic feats.

Mind you, I tend to play my casters very defensively, so there are some path abilities I considered before Metamastery on my Wizard Archmage, namely Mirror Dodge and Flexible Counterspell (which is by far the cheapest and best counterspelling option in the entire game).
Legendary Item also provide very strong options: Metamagician and Rejuvenating, as I already stated, but also Legendary Fortification, Undetectable (seriously, this ability RAW is beyond broken, ask your DM), and Spellcasting Intelligent items opens the way for SLA shenanigans.

Basically, once you get Eldritch Reciprocation, you can consider Mythic power to be per-encounter rather than per-day, and you'll be able to go nova at each encounter (if that style fits you).
I know you didn't ask for general advice on how to play mythic casters, but I'd still suggest you to also look at the Ring of Transcendent Power, and the Borrowed Time spell.

[Goaty14]

Without increasing the Spell Slot of the spell, you might want to take Invisible Spell, it hides what the spell looks like and only shows the effects (So an invisible chain lightning wouldn't give off light, or anything visual that would say it is lighting (unless somebody attacked had some sort of lighting DR)) (While a fireball would only show anything in the affected area it set of fire

TL;DR Invisible Spell (No spell slot change) - Makes it harder for enemies to know what spell you just cast.

That's the only one I can think of.

[molten_dragon]

Without increasing the Spell Slot of the spell, you might want to take Invisible Spell, it hides what the spell looks like and only shows the effects (So an invisible chain lightning wouldn't give off light, or anything visual that would say it is lighting (unless somebody attacked had some sort of lighting DR)) (While a fireball would only show anything in the affected area it set of fire

TL;DR Invisible Spell (No spell slot change) - Makes it harder for enemies to know what spell you just cast.

That's the only one I can think of.

I think the title was unclear. I'm not looking for metamagic feats with +0 spell level adjustment. I will be able to use metamagic feats with up to a +4 spell level adjustment for free, and I'm looking for recommendations of the best metamagic feats to take.

[molten_dragon]

You can mitigate the HP loss caused by Eldritch Reciprocation with the Rejuvenating legendary item ability. Now all you need for complete out-of-combat mythic power regeneration is a reliable source of arcane damage.

Hmm, I missed rejuvenating the first time I was looking through the legendary item abilities. I think I'm going to have to reshuffle some things and pick mythic item up twice, that's better than I thought.


As for the usefulness of Arcane Metamastery, I don't deny it, but I think it's limited by several factors:
- It costs a swift action to activate which are, as a mythic caster, one of your most precious resources
- You can only have one metamagic feat active at the same time, so no Dazing Quickened spell on a given turn
Basically, as Quicken spell is the best option, you'll probably be defaulting to it, and seldom use your other metamagic feats.

Mind you, I tend to play my casters very defensively, so there are some path abilities I considered before Metamastery on my Wizard Archmage, namely Mirror Dodge and Flexible Counterspell (which is by far the cheapest and best counterspelling option in the entire game).
Legendary Item also provide very strong options: Metamagician and Rejuvenating, as I already stated, but also Legendary Fortification, Undetectable (seriously, this ability RAW is beyond broken, ask your DM), and Spellcasting Intelligent items opens the way for SLA shenanigans.

Mirror Dodge I was going to pick up anyway, that looks fantastic. Flexible counterspell I was skipping because I can grab the counterspell exploit which is almost as good but relies on a different point pool which will be nice.


Basically, once you get Eldritch Reciprocation, you can consider Mythic power to be per-encounter rather than per-day, and you'll be able to go nova at each encounter (if that style fits you).
I know you didn't ask for general advice on how to play mythic casters, but I'd still suggest you to also look at the Ring of Transcendent Power, and the Borrowed Time spell.

I appreciate the advice, the only mythic character I've played before was a barbarian.

Borrowed time I see lots of potential for. Two extra move actions per round (with mythic haste) or an extra move and an extra swift are delicious. Especially combined with mythic telekinesis for a combat maneuver every round as a move action.

The ring of transcendent spells looks okay, but not amazing. Is there something I'm missing here?

[Shadowquad]

Hmm, I missed rejuvenating the first time I was looking through the legendary item abilities. I think I'm going to have to reshuffle some things and pick mythic item up twice, that's better than I thought.


There is an important thing to remember about legendary items: each time you take the path ability, you get up to three or four new abilities to add to your item. Given the raw power of some of those, it really is a big discount.


Mirror Dodge I was going to pick up anyway, that looks fantastic. Flexible counterspell I was skipping because I can grab the counterspell exploit which is almost as good but relies on a different point pool which will be nice.


I am not very familiar with arcanist exploits ; the counterspell one indeed looks almost as good, and frees up a path ability. Because a dispel check is always needed though, you may want to consider the Eldritch Breach ability, especially if you're bound to encounter lots of SR ennemies.



The ring of transcendent spells looks okay, but not amazing. Is there something I'm missing here?


Usually, you cannot cast a mythic spells unless you have taken the Mythic Spellcasting or Mythic spell lore ability for it. In conjunction with Wild Arcana (you're taking Wild Arcana, right ?), the ring allows you to cast any non-augmented mythic spell on your list thrice a day.
You'll want to take Mythic spellcasting eventually, but with the ring you can save it for the spells that have an augmented version that really matters. I'm thinking about limited wish, cloudkill, disintegrate, time stop, dimensional lock, fly, magic missile and fireball, to name a few. If you're dead set on taking Arcane Metamastery though, I guess you could also push to take it five times and also take the Ascendant spell metamagic feat, but I think it starts to heavily drain your mythic ability slots.