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View Full Version : Pathfinder Sneak Attack... as a Bat: Skinwalker Vivisectionist Help



Levism84
2017-06-13, 09:56 AM
Hey Giants!

I was kicking around the idea (metaphorically) of a bloodmarked skinwalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp/skinwalkers-10-rp) (werebat-kin) alchemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist) with the *takes deep breath* chirurgeon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/chirurgeon/), vivisectionist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/vivisectionist/), and wasteland blighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/wasteland-blighter/) archetypes. Essentially, I wanted to create a cold and calculating scientist who disguises her dark experimentation and blood-lust with the guise of an anxious (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/drawbacks/anxious/) but benevolent healer; lawful evil healer for the win!

Anywho, I was looking at taking Bat Shape (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/bat-shape) early (maybe Dire Bat Shape (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dire-bat-shape) later on) but the vivisectionist's sneak attack ability in bat form has a lot of potential for hitting lone targets unaware. I was wondering what traits, feats, or other goodies I could take in order to help her be the best stealthy nocturnal killer she can be? Alternatively, I would love some clarification as to whether Bat Shape allows you to transform into a diminutive animal (as a normal bat) or a tiny animal (as beast shape II (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beast-shape)).

Lastly, just thinking of this as I am typing, I would love to see how she could deal nonlethal sneak attack damage with her bite to knock targets out. This would allow her to take on dire bat form and carry her targets away, stealthfully under the cover of night, to her lab for further... examination.

As always, any help is appreciated.

Geddy2112
2017-06-13, 11:09 AM
I don't think you need chirugeon in your build. You already get infused curatives from the wasteland blighter. Vivisectionist lets you use knowledge(nature) over heal to heal. Nature is int based heal is wis based, so it will always be higher, plus it saves on skill ranks. Getting skill focus heal is meh and the part about doing minimum damage almost never comes up(and won't matter at higher levels anyways). The only thing you are getting is breath of life, which is handy but it can be a little tricky in practice to use. It takes up a highish level extract spot, and you have to be within a single move action of the target in a form(not beast shaped) where you can use it.

Dropping chirugeon would let you keep poison use and give you resistance 4 and eventually immunity. Poisons are kind of meh but immunity to them comes up from time to time. That said, if you really want that breath of life I totally get you.

Since the spell functions as beast shape II, you are tiny. For nonlethal damage, you can always make a lethal melee weapon do nonlethal damage, with a -4 penalty on the attack roll. I understand you can't use your sneak attack bonus, so you might want to just unarmed strike, provoke, and get the sneak attack. It really depends- once somebody is close to death, it does not take much nonlethal to knock them out so even a normal attack may do it. Or use an alchemical item to disable them like a fungal stun vial, tanglefoot bag, etc etc.

Also, have you heard of Zon Kuthon and/or the battlefield surgeon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/battlefield-surgeon/) trait? Would be really thematic for your character.

Levism84
2017-06-13, 07:21 PM
I hadn't seen Battlefield Surgeon. The ability to use treat deadly wounds an additional time per character per day would be very useful, especially if I went with Signature Skill (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/signature-skill-general/) (Heal) for the character's 5th level feat. Of course, then, I would be dumping ranks into Heal for the benefits of Signature Skill when I would probably have a higher bonus from Knowledge (nature). Unless anyone knows a way around that?

I agree Chirurgeon so sort of restoration overkill for the alchemist with Wasteland Blighter. However, I do really want that breath of life (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/breath-of-life) spell as a 4th level extract for the character. The build would be to have all of the extracts prepared as infused curatives: 1st-level, cure light wounds; 2nd-level, cure moderate wounds, 3rd-level, cure serious wounds; 4th-level, breath of life; 5th-level, regenerate; 6th level, aromatic breath of life. In this way, all of the extracts can be used to heal but have the ability to be "remade" into other extracts on the fly.

For the bite sneak attack, since a bite is bludgeoning/piercing/slashing, could the character use Bludgeoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bludgeoner-combat/) to deal nonlethal damage with a bite attack?

Rainshine
2017-06-13, 11:32 PM
If you like knocking things out, you might check out the Sap Adept/Sap Mastery feats as well, which increase the nonlethal damage done on sneak attacks.