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eru001
2017-06-14, 08:55 AM
So a while back there was a thread where people could post characters which they were having trouble figuring out the dnd alignment of. It was helpful back when I was running a campaign, and now I'm involved in another and have a few more characters to deal with which I just can't place. I figured I'd post the topic again as the old thread has long since passed the deadline for being posted on. I also figured I can't possibly be the only person in this boat, and having a single thread for us confused people to post this particular question could be useful.


Can anyone help me figure out these guys alignments (Also feel free to post any characters you are having trouble figuring out)

Character 1: The Knight Rebellious,

He has served the kingdom in which he lived loyally for nearly a decade now. He was knighted four years ago for valerous conduct on the battlefield. He routinely rescues peasents from bandits and does other standard paladin esque actions without any expectation of reward, and has actively refused any reward that was offered, (With the sole exception of a large sum of money which he immediately used to purchase food and aid supplies for the citizens of a part of the country which was devastated by war.) He has actively upheld and enforced the laws of the kingdom, and the one time he accidentally commiteed a crime (due to an error in communication) he turned himself in to the first officer of the law he found, and at trial demanded the highest applicable penalty for himself. On the surface, it seems an open shut case of Lawful Good. The problem comes with his curent situation. The old king died. The new monarch, made by apparently unquestionable divine appointment of the lawful good diety, (and yes I know this is not good DMing, I'm not the DM and didn't make that call), has not behaved in a lawful or good manner. The new monarch has overturned many of the Kingdom's old traditions, violently supressed the region of the kingdom the character is from, Instituted prohibition, and ordered all practicioners of a certain brand of magic (a non evil one) to be registered and resticted. The Knight, has of course, met with important individuals around the kingdom and begun organizing a coup. A coup against the lawfully and divinly appointed monarch. But one with the intent of installing the old monarch's sister, a generally good, and responsible individual, on the throne.

How do I call this one?


Character 2: The Thrillseeking Demonhunter

This guy is a bit on the insane side. He's made an assorment of deals with higher powers, mostly neutral or slightly good, in order to gain power. He uses this power to fight demons. He does so pretty well and has rescued an impresive tally of helpless individuals from the assorted giant monsters of down below. When I mention a chain of deals, I mean he has basically set up an overlapping series of contracts where he has sold his soul so many times to these various grey/slightly good leaning powers that none of them can agree on who gets it, therefore in the meantime he is free to act, with an impressive degree of granted power. He uses this power to fight things which are definitely evil, and help people it is probably good to help. That being said, while he likes helping people, his primary reason he fights all of the evil giant monsters and demons is that he is at heart just an adrenaline junkie. He does it for fun. He makes sure that the monsters he fights are all evil, but helping people is mostly just an added bonus to him. He's really just in it for the thrill of the fight. While it has never come up, it is pretty clear, that if he had to choose between fighting a more challenging evil creature, or fighting a weaker one who's defeat would happen to help more people, he'd fight the bigger monster every time.

I'm having a hard time calling this one too

obryn
2017-06-14, 08:58 AM
{{scrubbed}}

goto124
2017-06-14, 09:08 AM
{{scrubbed}}

Red Fel
2017-06-14, 09:14 AM
Don't use alignment.

This. If you're not specifically using an alignment-based system, don't use alignment. It's arbitrary and frequently contradictory.

Alternatively, Lawful Evil. If you have to ask, Lawful Evil is the answer. Always.

Now, this thread is in the general Roleplaying Games forum, which means it could apply to any number of alignment systems. I'm going to use 3.5, because that's the one I know best; if you intend a different system, just say so.


Character 1: The Knight Rebellious,

He has served the kingdom in which he lived loyally for nearly a decade now. He was knighted four years ago for valerous conduct on the battlefield. He routinely rescues peasents from bandits and does other standard paladin esque actions without any expectation of reward, and has actively refused any reward that was offered, (With the sole exception of a large sum of money which he immediately used to purchase food and aid supplies for the citizens of a part of the country which was devastated by war.) He has actively upheld and enforced the laws of the kingdom, and the one time he accidentally commiteed a crime (due to an error in communication) he turned himself in to the first officer of the law he found, and at trial demanded the highest applicable penalty for himself. On the surface, it seems an open shut case of Lawful Good. The problem comes with his curent situation. The old king died. The new monarch, made by apparently unquestionable divine appointment of the lawful good diety, (and yes I know this is not good DMing, I'm not the DM and didn't make that call), has not behaved in a lawful or good manner. The new monarch has overturned many of the Kingdom's old traditions, violently supressed the region of the kingdom the character is from, Instituted prohibition, and ordered all practicioners of a certain brand of magic (a non evil one) to be registered and resticted. The Knight, has of course, met with important individuals around the kingdom and begun organizing a coup. A coup against the lawfully and divinly appointed monarch. But one with the intent of installing the old monarch's sister, a generally good, and responsible individual, on the throne.

Okay. This is a conversation that has been held over and over again. Let me explain this yet again because it should not be this hard: Lawful does not necessarily mean "obeys the one on the throne." The classic example is a Paladin who enters a land where slavery is the law. Slavery is objectively Evil under D&D standards (and, frankly, in real life, but let's not get into that). If, under the law, a Paladin is required to participate in the slave system, he is morally compelled (by his G) to refuse. That said, it is not non-Lawful to reject an unjust or Evil law, either. He doesn't jeopardize his L by refusing to own slaves. He doesn't jeopardize his L by attempting to dismantle the slave system. He doesn't jeopardize his L by attempting to depose the tyrant who imposed slavery.

Refusing to obey an unjust ruler, or even attempting a coup against one, is not non-Lawful. Otherwise no LG character could get away with slaying tyrants.

He's LG.


Character 2: The Thrillseeking Demonhunter

This guy is a bit on the insane side. He's made an assorment of deals with higher powers, mostly neutral or slightly good, in order to gain power. He uses this power to fight demons. He does so pretty well and has rescued an impresive tally of helpless individuals from the assorted giant monsters of down below. When I mention a chain of deals, I mean he has basically set up an overlapping series of contracts where he has sold his soul so many times to these various grey/slightly good leaning powers that none of them can agree on who gets it, therefore in the meantime he is free to act, with an impressive degree of granted power. He uses this power to fight things which are definitely evil, and help people it is probably good to help. That being said, while he likes helping people, his primary reason he fights all of the evil giant monsters and demons is that he is at heart just an adrenaline junkie. He does it for fun. He makes sure that the monsters he fights are all evil, but helping people is mostly just an added bonus to him. He's really just in it for the thrill of the fight. While it has never come up, it is pretty clear, that if he had to choose between fighting a more challenging evil creature, or fighting a weaker one who's defeat would happen to help more people, he'd fight the bigger monster every time.

I'm having a hard time calling this one too

That's because it's mostly meaningless. He tends Good, in that he fights Evil. His reasons are mostly irrelevant; it's not like he's going it for Evil reasons. You can be Good because you do Good for personal reasons, instead of for altruism.

You really don't say a lot about him on the L-C spectrum. Does he plan to honor the deals he has made for his soul? Is he using these contracts to manipulate others (which tends Lawful) or to maintain his own autonomy (which tends Chaotic)?

You could make a good case for Neutral Good on this one. Or you could make a good case for the woeful inadequacies of the alignment system.

Either, or, really.

Nerd-o-rama
2017-06-14, 09:14 AM
If you need to use alignment for mechanical reasons though, hm.

The knight's a case that can be arguable, but I think he's pretty clearly a Lawful Good character who's being forced by circumstances to step outside the letter of the law. You don't stop being your alignment because of one set of extraordinary circumstances (although you might if you start claiming "extraordinary circumstances" every time you feel like stepping outside it). Lawful Good in particular doesn't mean unquestioning obedience to the letter of the law. It means acting in accordance with what's best for everyone within a society, in my mind. Whenever I need an example of Lawful Good, I look at (the better written parts of) Captain America, who aside from a brief retconned thing in the 1950s and whatever the hell is going on for shock value right now, has always been about upholding what's best for the people and most in keeping with the spirit of his nation, regardless and often in defiance of the actual orders and chain of command within his government.

Now, I would say that it might be a situation where an investigation might be more apt than a coup for a wise LG character. The new monarch probably isn't causing enough damage yet for a coup to be the best course of action for the good of the realm, but this could all be a lead-up to something big, evil, and nasty. It's got all the hallmarks of a conspiracy in that regards. I would recommend finding out exactly what's going on before doing anything drastic.

The demonhunter seems pretty solidly Chaotic in both methods and motivations, but Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Good is somewhat of a judgment call. I'd lean CN since, while he does experience the basic mortal empathetic response of enjoying protecting people from Pure Evil, his motivation is ultimately self-centered, and he doesn't care who he mildly inconveniences on his path to power.

eru001
2017-06-14, 09:29 AM
If you need to use alignment for mechanical reasons though.

This is the situation yes. Our party has access to a number of alignmentally locked magic items. Who can use which thing, is a non-trivial question. And the consequences of a character attempting to use some of the more powerful ones with the incorrect alignment can be severe.

I recognize that this is not the best method of DMing. I'm not the DM. I'm just trying to do my best to play the game that I've been presented with. If this forum was the wrong place to ask this question, then I'm sorry, I'll take it down.

obryn
2017-06-14, 09:33 AM
This is the situation yes. Our party has access to a number of alignmentally locked magic items. Who can use which thing, is a non-trivial question. And the consequences of a character attempting to use some of the more powerful ones with the incorrect alignment can be severe.

I recognize that this is not the best method of DMing. I'm not the DM. I'm just trying to do my best to play the game that I've been presented with. If this forum was the wrong place to ask this question, then I'm sorry, I'll take it down.
Nah, I was just giving you a hard time.

If you were the DM I'd have some words for you, but as it stands, good luck. :smallsmile:

goto124
2017-06-14, 09:44 AM
{{scrubbed}}

eru001
2017-06-14, 09:51 AM
Hey, it's you, the LE guy! To think you're still doing this!

To what extent is alignment useful, anyway? I seem to remember alignment being useful for games about good and evil, or something along those lines... my memory is fuzzy...

Just read that it's due to alignment-based items. OP, what is your DM's current stance on the alignments of the characters?

His stance was "Touch the sword and find out" Pretty sure there was also maniacal laughter

I happen to know that he just finished reading King Arthur, so this may have been a result of him liking the story of Sir Galahad too much

LibraryOgre
2017-06-14, 10:10 AM
The Mod Wonder: A gentle reminder to posters:

Threadcrapping is "comments that are pointless negation of the purpose of a thread". This can manifest as a topic, for example, where someone says "How do I use alignment in this situation", then posting "Don't use alignment" or "Alignment discussions are always bad because alignment is bad." Such comments have their place in a thread about "Should I use alignment" or "What are the benefits or drawbacks of using alignment." But posting "Don't use alignment" is not only not helpful, it is actively making such threads worse. Especially when that is almost always the first few responses to a thread.

Don't like alignment? Don't use it. But stop insisting that everyone else is having badwrongfun because they play the game differently than you do.

The OP may reopen this topic without prejudice, and everyone else is encouraged to play nicely.