Building an Arcane Hierophant or a Gish

[Blu]

Hi guys, thanks in advance for the help.

So, for an upcoming table for 3.5 i'm thinking of building either a gish character, or an Arcane hierophant.
Rules: 32 point buy, 2 flaws
All oficial books and Dragon Compendium allowed.
Start at level 5 with base WBL.
No LA buyout

A)For the Arcane hierophant i'm in doubt about most of the build besides level distribution and also the race.
I plan on going for Wiz 1/Druid 4, using Precocious apprentice for early entry.
I also plan to use Natural bond, Natural spell and Exalted companion on the build for achieving a Celetial companion familiar with VoP.
What stats do you guys sugest? And what other feats?

B) For a gish kind of character i would probably go for Illumian Wiz 1/Duskblade 2/Wiz 2
Using Collegiate wizard, knowledge devotion and planning on going for
Wiz 1/Duskblade 2/Wiz 3/Spellsword 1/Abj. Champion 5/ Sacred exorcist 8, for persisting spells.
What feats i could strap on this build?
What stats could i use?

If you have other sugestions i would love to read them.

[Kaje]

Why are you taking just 2 levels of duskblade? 3 will get you channeling.

[Blu]

Why are you taking just 2 levels of duskblade? 3 will get you channeling.

2 levels of Duskblade give me Combat casting and Armored mage(light), so it's basically 2 free feats

More of a long term vs short term. I think channeling will increase my power at early levels, but will cost me a caster level in the end.
With Wiz 4/Dusk 2/Spellsword 1/Abj. Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8 i end up with 18 caster levels for spells known and slots.

[Kaje]

That armored mage doesn't apply to your wizard spells.

[Blu]

That armored mage doesn't apply to your wizard spells.

Oh, you are right. Just reread feature. "This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different
spellcasting class."

Damn. I guess that could be one of the feats.

[Godskook]

Good bases to mix with Wizard for gishes:
Warblade(Diamond Mind is a save-protection school!)
Fighter(feats)
Swashbuckler(if you're going high-level, for the int-to-damage)

Generally, you want to take your highest HD base-class at first level *ALWAYS* because it affects your HP, which is super important on Gishes, since they're not going to be "properly" tanky.

Also, note that False-Life cheese helps quite a b

-----------------

If you're wanting to "gish it up" with other ideas:

A "rogue gish" is quite good off a wizard frame, using something like....Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Daggerspell Mage X/Unseen Seer Y. You get tons of SA, decent BAB, and proper gish-casting-progressoin.

A Sorcadin, using something like Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/AbChamp 5/SacEx 8

[Blu]

Good bases to mix with Wizard for gishes:
Warblade(Diamond Mind is a save-protection school!)
Fighter(feats)
Swashbuckler(if you're going high-level, for the int-to-damage)

Warblade seems like a good choice instead of the Duskblade and even as some synergy. Int to reflexes, Diamond mind as a whole and good chassis.
Fighter altough useful, is kind of boring.
Swashbuckler 3 would require for 1 more lost caster level


Generally, you want to take your highest HD base-class at first level *ALWAYS* because it affects your HP, which is super important on Gishes, since they're not going to be "properly" tanky.

Sadly, Collegiate Wizard needs to be taken as a lvl 1 character.


Also, note that False-Life cheese helps quite a b


Could you explain more?


If you're wanting to "gish it up" with other ideas:

A "rogue gish" is quite good off a wizard frame, using something like....Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Daggerspell Mage X/Unseen Seer Y. You get tons of SA, decent BAB, and proper gish-casting-progressoin.

A Sorcadin, using something like Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/AbChamp 5/SacEx 8

I also considered a rogue gish, but for my gish i intend on it to be heavy on the caster side, with a little bulky on the other side.
Also considered a Sorcadin, but i like Luminous armor
:smallconfused:

[Anthrowhale]

Arcane Hierophant requires BAB+4, right? You have BAB+3 with Wizard 1/Druid 4.

You might consider Druid 1/Wizard 1/Druid 1/Mystic Theurge 4/Druid 1/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 2. You end up with Wizard 17/Druid 19 casting and the theurging comes online significantly earlier. You need Alternate Source Spell at level 3 to qualify for Mystic Theurge.

[Blu]

Arcane Hierophant requires BAB+4, right? You have BAB+3 with Wizard 1/Druid 4.

You might consider Druid 1/Wizard 1/Druid 1/Mystic Theurge 4/Druid 1/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 2. You end up with Wizard 17/Druid 19 casting and the theurging comes online significantly earlier. You need Alternate Source Spell at level 3 to qualify for Mystic Theurge.

Sorry for not making it clear on the post. I intend on going for Druid 6/Wiz 1 entry. The idea for the Hierophant is making something closer to a Druidzilla with a powerfull companion. So i wish to lose the minimum Wild shape as possible.

[Grim Reader]

using Precocious apprentice for early entry..

You can't do that, PA is only ab additional level 2 Druid spell slot by the time you try to take your first level of Arcane Hierophant.

[Blu]

You can't do that, PA is only ab additional level 2 Druid spell slot by the time you try to take your first level of Arcane Hierophant.

Sorry, but i didn't understand much of the post.
Precocious apprentice is for the Wizard side, so that i can take Wiz 1/Druid 6 for entry on Arcane Hierophant

[Anthrowhale]

Sorry, but i didn't understand much of the post.
Precocious apprentice is for the Wizard side, so that i can take Wiz 1/Druid 6 for entry on Arcane Hierophant

FYI, there is a FAQ ruling against this based on PA sometimes failing.

[Grim Reader]

Sorry, but i didn't understand much of the post.
Precocious apprentice is for the Wizard side, so that i can take Wiz 1/Druid 6 for entry on Arcane Hierophant

In addition to Anthrowhales point, once you get the ability to cast 2nd level Druid spells, the second half of the feats text kicks in and you lose the ability to cast your selected spell, instead getting a second level Druid slot.

[Buufreak]

Any reason the usual alt spell source and heighten wouldn't work to get you in with only 1 level of wizard?

[Blu]

Any reason the usual alt spell source and heighten wouldn't work to get you in with only 1 level of wizard?

No dragon magazine allowed :smallconfused:

[Buufreak]

No dragon magazine allowed :smallconfused:

I somehow always forget that's where that came from. My bad, carry on.

[Blu]

I somehow always forget that's where that came from. My bad, carry on.

Well, without Precocious Apprentice the idea for Arcane Hierophant is basically screwed :smallfrown:

[Anthrowhale]

Earth Spell + Earth Sense + Heighten Spell should work. Sanctum Spell might work.

[DEMON]

Well, without Precocious Apprentice the idea for Arcane Hierophant is basically screwed :smallfrown:

Illumian with Improved Krau Sigil should do the trick.

[Blu]

Illumian with Improved Krau Sigil should do the trick.

Oh, I liked this one. Thank you.
Now, back to indecision

[logic_error]

I would go Duskblade 5, Psion 1 (Nomad) and then, illithid slayer all the way. This adds to your power list a lot of psionic touch range spells which by magic-psionic transparency you should be able to channel. Also, you get almost full BAB losing only one point at the Psion level. But, this sacrifice nets you fly in your list as well as a couple of free feats. I suspect that this character if built like an uber charger would be basically broken at all levels. It has a lot of utility, and can get metamorphosis with Expanded knowledge becoming the ultimate sandwich. Get practiced manifester along the way. Fill the last four levels with whatever you like :).

[Blu]

I would go Duskblade 5, Psion 1 (Nomad) and then, illithid slayer all the way. This adds to your power list a lot of psionic touch range spells which by magic-psionic transparency you should be able to channel. Also, you get almost full BAB losing only one point at the Psion level. But, this sacrifice nets you fly in your list as well as a couple of free feats. I suspect that this character if built like an uber charger would be basically broken at all levels. It has a lot of utility, and can get metamorphosis with Expanded knowledge becoming the ultimate sandwich. Get practiced manifester along the way. Fill the last four levels with whatever you like :).


Also forgot to mention, no psionics

Edit: And just reread character creation rules. Psionics are allowed, my mistake