Wanting to make a Dragon Disciple. Advice?

[Mr.Pockets]

Title says all. Looking to build my favorite old "Underpowered" class stemming from the first characters I made. I've looked up guides and tried to decipher things myself, but I am not a clever man.
I understand this may not be a min/maxing build, and That isn't the goal in truth. Just looking to build a decently powerful character to the best of its ability without making grueling mistakes i could have avoided.

Id personally like a Unarmed Fighter Dragon Disciple, but Im not against a good switch hitting caster.
My goals for this character:

1. Be a freakin' Dragon
2. Punch People in the Face
3. yell "I'm a Dragon" at people really, REALLY, loud



What classes and levels in would be a good combo?

Originally I thought of:
1 Sorc
9 Monk
10 DD
Levelling as 1 Sorc, 4 Monk, 10 DD, 5 Monk.


and lastly races. these in my groups often become homebrew, but suggestions are definitely nice!
My first thought: Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold. (The problem is its pretty much always banned XD, it is rather cheesy)


So any advice?
Im looking to have this spelled out decently, as I am not a clever man. So i'm looking for a good class comp/ essential Feats/ and cool skills.

thanks! and have a great day!

[Gruftzwerg]

what is allowed? PF only or mixed with 3.5?

and if you should be allowed to go DWK, try to cheese more Str out. There are variant subraces for Kobold with only -2 Str penalty.
Further there is the "Ravening" Dragon Psychosis (Dragon Magazine #313). While most effects are related to breath weapons which you don't have, you still profit from +4Str (in exchange for -4Wis, which is a bit compensated by DWK +3 mental stats). In the end you get a Kobold with a +2 on Str.

Since PF has altered rules for natural attacks, I would recommend to build as much as possible. Kobolds Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) gives Kobold Claws and Bite attack. Further DWK are eligible for Dragon Tail (feat) to get another Tail attack.

If you are looking for an odd (but less dragon) build, I would add White Haired Witch on top of it to get natural attacks with your Hair/Mustache. I know you want it, a DWK with mustache! xD

[prototype00]

I put my thoughts here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pw8z?Enter-the-Dragon-2-Earth-Winter-and-Storm#1

As I tried to make a similar character. Might be a bit out of date as I haven't been playing PF in a while.

Main thrust is to take the Empyreal bloodline and have everything run off Wisdom. (Cross blooded of course)

[eldskald]

Well well... Many! Maybe you will even change your mind about calling the DD underpowered. It is hard to see it's potential, but it is definetely very strong.

If you want to go monk, look for the Scaled Monk archetype. It makes you less MAD and gives you Dragon Style feat at lv 1 for free. Above all, you need to stack strength. Get it very high. Secondly, a high charisma will help, but you don't need to get it as high as strength. You can dump dex and int, maybe even wis. Then, look for Eldritch Heritage feat. Abyssal and Orc bloodlines can give you +6 Str. You don't want 9 levels in monk, only one or two levels in a martial class will do the trick. You lose too much casting power and don't gain much in return, really. You will punch as hard as a 9 monk/sorc 1 with a 9 sorc/1 monk, but you will cast much much harder. For some extra cheese, you can go paladin 2, scaled monk 1 and you will be adding your Cha mod to AC and saves. There is an archetype in paladin called Divine Hunter, grab it to get free Precise Shot at lv 1 and shoot your touch spells freely. Also, look for the Dragon Ferocity feat. It's just absurd. And since you won't go with claws and teeth, you can grab wildblooded sorc for the alternative linnorm bloodline, to give you a ray attack instead of claws. Ah, and go for the unchained monk. By level 5, you will flurry for 2 punches, the first dealing 2xStr in damage and the rest dealing 1.5xStr. By level 17, if you go grab greater eldritch heritage, you will be getting +10 to Str from DD levels and bloodline, and so you will probably be around 36~40 total Strength score. Thats a lot of damage!

My build would be unchained scaled monk 1, sorc 4, DD rest. If you really want more martial levels, go unchained scaled monk 1, divine hunter 2, sorc 2, DD rest. Ah, and you don't need the last 2 DD levels, they're not so great and they lose you a casting level. You might leave DD at 8 and take the rest in sorcerer.

For race, you can never go wrong with human. Lizardfolk, tiefling and aasimar are also very good choices. Both tiefling and aasimar have a variant that gives +2 Str and Cha, which is awesome. If you are grabbing abyssal bloodline with Eldrith Heritage, you can grab demon variant tiefling, and that would be great and flavorful. But by your post, I assume you prefer to keep your blood clean and pure, so you might not like to stench it with that. You might go for lizardfolk or human instead. If I were you, I would ask your DM to re-flavor abyssal bloodline into dragon flavor. I mean, flaming claws and +6 strength is pretty draconic, it's no big deal! I like keeping my blood pure too, but +6 strength is too good to pass. Orc bloodline gives a rage buff instead of claws that you won't use, so you might ask that to be re-flavored if you will use it instead. Or you can simply be a Half-orc, no stress or bad choice in it too.

EDIT: Oh yeah, get Magical Knack as a trait too.

[Azoth]

Paladin2/Scaled Monk1/Sorc2/Dragon Disciple10/Eldritch Knight5

Join a Mage's Guild from Inner Sea Magic to negate the 3 lost levels of progression at the start of your build. This will mean you will not truly lose castin progression until Dragon Disciple. Eclectic and Esoteric Training give the spells known/slots as well as caster level.

Burn 3 feats on Favored Prestige Class (Dragon Disciple) and Prestigious Spellcaster X2. This will mean you only lose 2 caster levels and can get 9ths at lvl20.

Taking Magical Knack (Sorcerer) as a trait will keep you topped off on CL for spell effects your entire career.

Final build has BAB15 and CL20. 1 BAB away from full iterative attacks. It also give Charisma to saves/AC.

*Edit* You can trade a redundant Bloodline Power for the Bloodline Mutation Bloodline Havoc and it will give +1 damage/die of Bloodline spells or spells you have spell focus for. A more efficient means to blast than Crossblooded.

[Mr.Pockets]

Thank you all so far. and to clarify the Underpowered comment was intended as light sarcasm. I love the class very very much

3.5 + PF is the preference. but theyre just against precreated homebrew (Unless I make it myself he prefers not letting me sample someone else's cheese)

[eldskald]

Thank you all so far. and to clarify the Underpowered comment was intended as light sarcasm. I love the class very very much

3.5 + PF is the preference. but theyre just against precreated homebrew (Unless I make it myself he prefers not letting me sample someone else's cheese)

Hahaha, that's because on 3.5 it was pretty underpowered, even though lots of people loved it's concept. And it was like this in PF's early years too. I think it became powerful after more races, archetypes, alternate race features and Eldritch Heritage came in. At this point, this class is a hidden powerhouse and potentially game breaking. Look at Azoth's build, it is beyond broken.

Another way to do monk is with unchained scaled monk 3/sorc 2/ DD rest just to get the ki pool. With two weapon fighting, you can flurry for 3 hits, and by spending a ki point, you will flurry for 4, doing 6.5xStr+4d6. You can also do a very feat intensive build by picking Feral Combat Training in both claws and bite so you can use the+1d6 elemental damage from bloodline. With that, you can flurry for 2 claws and 2 bites, and by spending a ki point you will flurry for 2 claws and 3 bites, doing around 9.5xStr+10d6 damage! You would probably need to be human to do this. Another interesting feat to look into for both of those builds is Dispelling Fist for super late game.

More ways to build DD might include changing your casting attribute. You should do this if you are not taking Eldritch Heritage, since Cha sucks. If you're doing this, you probably want Intelligence, so you can put the +2 Int bonus the DD gives to good use. As mentioned before, being a crossblooded sorcerer for sage bloodline do the trick. Another hidden trick is by getting a lv1 spell as a spell-like ability. Rule states that these do fulfill the requirement for prestige class entries. If all else fails, you can always dip one level in sorcerer, bard or whatever. So if you're doing this, you can use DD levels to stack with wizard/arcanist/witch levels instead. I would recommend wizard so you can pick Evocation (Admixture) school specialization. Notice that only crossblooded sorcerer changes how many uses of your claws you gain per day, so if you want that spellbook you need another way to get natural attacks. Best solution is being a lizardfolk. You can also go for 2 levels of slayer and get free Aspect of the Beast from ranger style and have the Adopted (Tusked) trait.

I could go on and on... If you want more information, you can read this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cmswe4jHDb1Vcm3oQME3mxUelX_WzKbQ8r9_1mwQS6M/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1).

[stanprollyright]

Build I made a while back:

nagaji scaled fist unchained monk/eldritch scrapper sorcerer/dragon disciple

1 Monk 1 dodge(b), weapon focus (unarmed)
2 Sorcerer 1 martial flexibility
3 Monk 2 dragon style(b), power attack
4 Monk 3
5 Monk 4 arcane strike, draconic fury
6 Dragon Disciple 1
7 DD 2 (bite, claws) improved initiative(b), multiattack
8 Monk 5 flying kick
9 DD 3 breath weapon, combat casting
10 DD 4
11 DD 5 toughness(b), improved critical (unarmed), blindsense
12 DD 6
13 DD 7 dragon form, weapon focus (claws)
14 monk 6 dragon ferocity(b), ki power
15 DD 8 skill focus (fly)(b), feral combat training (claws)
16 DD 9 wings
17 DD 10 dragon form 2, dispelling strike
18 sorc 2
19 sorc 3 monastic legacy
20 sorc 4

traits: magical knack (sorc), honored fist of society

20 point buy
str 17(+2)
dex 14
con 10
int 12(-2)
wis 8
cha 16(+2)

[Azoth]

Human 20pb
Paladin2/Scaled Fist Monk1/ Sorc2/DD10/EK5

Str: 14
Dex:12
Con:14
Int:8
Wis:10
Cha:18 (16+2racial)

1st: Noble Scion (War)
Human: Power Attack
Monk1: Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk1: Stunning Fist
Monk1: Dragon Style
3rd: Favored Prestige Class (Dragon Disciple)
Sorc1: Eschew Materials
5th: Dragon Ferocity
DD2nd(Bloodline Feat): Improved Initiative
7th: Prestigious Spellcaster
9th: Spell Focus (Evocataion)
DD5th(Bloodline Feat): Quicken Spell
11th: Prestigious Spellcaster
DD8th (Bloodline Feat): Great Fortitude or Toughness
13th: Maximize Spell
15th: Empower Spell
EK1st(combat feat):
17th: Spell Focus Greater (Evocation)
19th: Heighten Spell
EK5th(combat feat):

Trade Dragon Bloodline's Claw Power at level one for the Blood Mutation "Blood Havoc". Enjoy throwing +2/die damage on spells matching your Dragon (Black is my preference as Acid is least resisted) and +1/die for every spell not matching your elemental type. You can go Crossblooded Dragon/Orc and turn that into +3/die for spells that match your draconic heritage and +2/die for those that don't, but I don't like losing spells known if I can avoid it.

This build gains Charisma to AC/Saves/and replaces Dex for Initiative. So 18+5(levels)+5(inherent)+6(enhancement)=34Charisma =+12 to AC/Saves/and Initiative. That is without Simulacra Lilitu or Succubi giving Profane bonuses to stats.

BAB is 15, base saves are Fort 14/ Ref 9/ Will16.

Again join a Mage's Guild, and take Magical Knack so CL20 and cast as Sorc 18.

Sorry it isn't stronger. I threw it together quick while watching TV.