Good blasting/direct damage spells

[danielxcutter]

Before you people start saying "OMG blasting is so unoptimal", a) I'm just curious to see what spells there actually are, b) sometimes you actually do have to blast things(like swarms), c) having the option is always nice, and d) why not?

Now that we've got that out of the way, I should elaborate. I'm looking for good, powerful blasting/direct damage spells - not just Wizard spells, but from all the other T1 prepared casters - Clerics, Druids, and I think Wu Jen were T1 too. This includes both great damage, hard-to-resist damage types such as sonic or force, whether it allows SR or not... oh, whatever, you guys probably know what to look for.

I'm not just looking for gigantic explosions, though. Combust isn't an AoE spell but it's pretty good for a damage spell.

Oh, and the spell's purpose has to be dealing damage, but having rider effects are perfectly acceptable.

[DarkSoul]

Well, the level 4 orb spells are probably the first ones that come to mind. No SR and the save is versus the rider effects, not the damage, which caps at 15d6 instead of 10. The down side is requiring a ranged touch attack to hit.

[danielxcutter]

Well, the level 4 orb spells are probably the first ones that come to mind. No SR and the save is versus the rider effects, not the damage, which caps at 15d6 instead of 10. The down side is requiring a ranged touch attack to hit.

I can see why the Mailman build used them - 4th level spells are valid targets for Arcane Fusion, so in that way they can be combined with True Strike. And they're not rays, either, so they aren't effected by Ray Deflection.

[Venger]

I can see why the Mailman build used them - 4th level spells are valid targets for Arcane Fusion, so in that way they can be combined with True Strike. And they're not rays, either, so they aren't effected by Ray Deflection.

They are absolutely blocked by ray deflection. It protects you from all ranged touch attacks, which orb of x all are.

Is there a particular level cap in place, or is everything fair game? the druid list has some great blasts with stuff like deadfall.

[danielxcutter]

They are absolutely blocked by ray deflection. It protects you from all ranged touch attacks, which orb of x all are.

Is there a particular level cap in place, or is everything fair game? the druid list has some great blasts with stuff like deadfall.

Everything non-epic, from cantrips to 9th-levels.

[Gruftzwerg]

While not a spell by itself, I think "Chain Spell" metamagic needs to be mentioned.

Chain Spell Orb of X = fun <3

[danielxcutter]

While not a spell by itself, I think "Chain Spell" metamagic needs to be mentioned.

Chain Spell Orb of X = fun <3

Or really any great targeted spell.

[Gruftzwerg]

Or really any great targeted spell.

wizard: "Ashes to Ashes"
/cast chainspell Disintegrate

[Zaq]

Hail of Stone (SpC pg. 109) is basically impossible to resist outside of a Globe of Invulnerability. Typeless damage, works in an AoE, SR: No, no saving throw, and it's even an instantaneous Conjuration (Creation) spell, so it can technically even be cast into an AMF, if you follow that reading of the rules. And it's a 1st level spell, if that weren't nice enough.

The downside is that it has a 1 round casting time, and it also technically has an "expensive" (5 gp) material component. That said, 5 gp isn't likely to break the bank even at level 1, but you technically do have to keep track of how many pieces of jade you have. The max damage it can do without shenanigans is 5d4, but as a 1st level spell, it's not hard to soup up if you care. (It's also a nice target for Fell Drain or Fell Frighten.)

[ViperMagnum357]

Dalamar's Lightning Lance, from DLCS. Fortitude half, vulnerable to electricity resistance and SR yes, but by level 15, three separate touch attacks on 1-3 targets within 30 feet of each other, 10d6 Electricity damage and 3d6 typeless damage apiece, medium range and not a ray. Not terrific, but reliable and reasonably versatile for straight blasting. Also one of the few typeless damage spells with variable damage-and only level 4, leaving it accessible to empower, maximize, twin and intensify for metamagic blasters.

[rel]

I don't think anyone mentioned wings of flurry yet. It is a force damage, uncapped, close range fireball.

[danielxcutter]

I don't think anyone mentioned wings of flurry yet. It is a force damage, uncapped, close range fireball.

Sorcerer only, if I remember correctly, but it's still pretty nice if I remember. Shame it allows a Reflex save.

[Svata]

Flame Strike (clr 5, drd 4, sun 5, war 5) ain't too bad. 40' high 10' radius cylinder of up to 15d6 of half-fire half-divine damage. Has drawbacks (SR: Yes, Reflex for half) But its still decent.

I've always had a fondness for Acid Storm (Sorc/Wiz 6). 20' by 20' cylinder of SR: No 15d6. Still allows a reflex save, but eh.

And Everyone loves Maw of Chaos. But I guess that's more for the BFC it offers. Heck, cast it into a forcecage, and they probably can't teleport out (DC25 + spell level concentration check if they try to cast or use a SLA, on top of making a will save vs daze every round), and they just take 1d6/turn until they die.

I always thought Acid Fog was 4d6/round not 2d6. Huh. Weird.

Disintegrate and its big brother Sphere of Ultimate Destruction just wipe undead away. The latter does one every round, and you don't have to make any sort of roll. (yes, they get fort saves to turn the 2d6/lv into 5d6, but I mention it specifically to deal with undead, who have godawful fort saves. (they're immune to most, but this affects objects, so it works on them.))

[danielxcutter]

Flame Strike (clr 5, drd 4, sun 5, war 5) ain't too bad. 40' high 10' radius cylinder of up to 15d6 of half-fire half-divine damage. Has drawbacks (SR: Yes, Reflex for half) But its still decent.

Especially since Clerics don't get that many half-decent blasting spells, so this isn't bad.


I've always had a fondness for Acid Storm (Sorc/Wiz 6). 20' by 20' cylinder of SR: No 15d6. Still allows a reflex save, but eh.

Not that many monsters have acid immunity/resistance.


And Everyone loves Maw of Chaos. But I guess that's more for the BFC it offers. Heck, cast it into a forcecage, and they probably can't teleport out (DC25 + spell level concentration check if they try to cast or use a SLA, on top of making a will save vs daze every round), and they just take 1d6/turn until they die.

What's this? A blasting spell that's worth it? *le gasp*


I always thought Acid Fog was 4d6/round not 2d6. Huh. Weird.

What level was that again?


Disintegrate and its big brother Sphere of Ultimate Destruction just wipe undead away. The latter does one every round, and you don't have to make any sort of roll. (yes, they get for saves to turn the 2d6/lv into 5d6, but I mention it specifically to deal with undead, who have godawful fort saves. (they're immune to most, but this affects objects, so it works on them.))

Hmm, what about constructs? I hear they have sucky Fort saves as well...

[Svata]

Acid fog is Sorc/Wiz 6, water domain 7. I think I know why I thought it was 4d6. In NWN2, when a creature enters the Acid Fog it takes 4d6, and then 2d6/round on top of being a Solid Fog. In pen and paper its just a solid fog that does 2d6/round. And if I want BFC with marginal damage upside, I'll just use Freezing Fog.

Also, Maw of Chaos is a ninth level spell, so that has to be taken into consideration. But its still FANTASTIC.

As for Constructs, honestly, most constructs I've faced were Golems. So... Magic Immunity.

[danielxcutter]

Acid fog is Sorc/Wiz 6, water domain 7. I think I know why I thought it was 4d6. In NWN2, when a creature enters the Acid Fog it takes 4d6, and then 2d6/round on top of being a Solid Fog. In pen and paper its just a solid fog that does 2d6/round. And if I want BFC with marginal damage upside, I'll just use Freezing Fog.

What level was that?


As for Constructs, honestly, most constructs I've faced were Golems. So... Magic Immunity.

Yeah... never fought one before cause I'm pretty new at gaming, but seriously, f*ck them. Metaphorically, of course.

Edit:


Also, Maw of Chaos is a ninth level spell, so that has to be taken into consideration. But its still FANTASTIC.

Awesome rider effect, but even just considering the damage, it deals uncapped 1d6/CL per round if I read that correctly, AS AN AoE! Eat your heart out, Meteor Swarm!

[Svata]

Not 1d6/lv/round. 1d6/round for CL number of rounds. But they're taking all of it. and they're not doing anything during that time.

[danielxcutter]

Not 1d6/lv/round. 1d6/round for CL number of rounds. But they're taking all of it. and they're not doing anything during that time.

Oh. Does it allow a save?

[Svata]

Only against the Daze. And if they're still in at the beginning of the next round (say, thanks to being in a forcecage) they have to make the save again. Only things with the [Chaotic] subtype are immune. Not just alignment, subtype. So its no good for Demons or Slaad. But it does work on everything else.

[danielxcutter]

Only against the Daze. And if they're still in at the beginning of the next round (say, thanks to being in a forcecage) they have to make the save again. Only things with the [Chaotic] subtype are immune. Not just alignment, subtype. So its no good for Demons or Slaad. But it does work on everything else.

No save for the Concentration check to cast spells or use SLAs then? That's neat.

Oh, by the way, how is Scorching Touch? SR: Yes, touch range, and fire damage... except that the fire damage is 1d6/CL... times CL, and with a Fort save against daze every time!

I think it's in Magic of Eberron.

[Jormengand]

The dumb thing about Chill Touch is that it technically allows you to make all the attacks, at your highest base attack bonus, as part of the casting because it's an instantaneous evocation that allows you to make multiple attacks (I believe this is expounded upon in the Spell Compendium). I'm not sure how it's even supposed to work, but it's an uncapped first-level spell which does d6/level with no save, and 1 strength damage per level (unfortunately with a save). It's also a good way of overloading an undead creature with a number of instances of will-or-lose equal to your caster level.

Apart from that, I'm a fan of furnace within. It's a second level spell which gives you a bonus 1 fire damage on all attacks for as long as you like. Now, that sounds just about all right for a second level spell, except that's what it gives you if you haven't cast it yet - when you do, it deals d8/2 levels fire damage to enemies within 10 feet (maximum 5d8) and also sets everything on fire, just like a mini version of fireball centred on you. It does sorta make you really angry, and prone to solving your problems with violence, well maybe.

Arcane maul is a third-level spell which causes your attacks to act as though you were wielding a +4 warhammer, only you're proficient with it, and it's a force effect, or you can throw it to deal 1d6/2 levels force damage in a line and an area, and it also damages objects in the area (you can even throw it straight through a wall if it deals enough damage to destroy the wall). So you can use it to fight off the cops, and then throw it through someone's window as a further act of wizardly vandali... wait, what?

Haboob is a minute/level spell which deals 5d4 damage a round in an area, and also other stuff. If you can't find a use for that you're not trying hard enough.

I suppose I should mention Power Word: Pain. It was accidentally written as a first level spell instead of a fourth, we think, which is why it deals 1d6 points of damage per round for 1d4 rounds if the target has under 100 HP, and another 1d4 rounds if they have under 75, and another-other 2d4 if they have under 50, which means that if they have under 50 hit points, it will deal, on average, 35 damage. Untyped, no save. At level one, because Wizards done goofed.

[danielxcutter]

The dumb thing about Chill Touch is that it technically allows you to make all the attacks, at your highest base attack bonus, as part of the casting because it's an instantaneous evocation that allows you to make multiple attacks (I believe this is expounded upon in the Spell Compendium). I'm not sure how it's even supposed to work, but it's an uncapped first-level spell which does d6/level with no save, and 1 strength damage per level (unfortunately with a save). It's also a good way of overloading an undead creature with a number of instances of will-or-lose equal to your caster level.

Uhm... sorry, don't have any idea how that works either.


Apart from that, I'm a fan of furnace within. It's a second level spell which gives you a bonus 1 fire damage on all attacks for as long as you like. Now, that sounds just about all right for a second level spell, except that's what it gives you if you haven't cast it yet - when you do, it deals d8/2 levels fire damage to enemies within 10 feet (maximum 5d8) and also sets everything on fire, just like a mini version of fireball centred on you. It does sorta make you really angry, and prone to solving your problems with violence, well maybe.

Sounds like a decent gish spell.


Arcane maul is a third-level spell which causes your attacks to act as though you were wielding a +4 warhammer, only you're proficient with it, and it's a force effect, or you can throw it to deal 1d6/2 levels force damage in a line and an area, and it also damages objects in the area (you can even throw it straight through a wall if it deals enough damage to destroy the wall). So you can use it to fight off the cops, and then throw it through someone's window as a further act of wizardly vandali... wait, what?

You can only use one mode per casting, but I see that I'm not the only one who thinks that spell is neat.


Haboob is a minute/level spell which deals 5d4 damage a round in an area, and also other stuff. If you can't find a use for that you're not trying hard enough.

Lemme guess, untyped? Wow, Forcecage goes great with these kind of spells.


I suppose I should mention Power Word: Pain. It was accidentally written as a first level spell instead of a fourth, we think, which is why it deals 1d6 points of damage per round for 1d4 rounds if the target has under 100 HP, and another 1d4 rounds if they have under 75, and another-other 2d4 if they have under 50, which means that if they have under 50 hit points, it will deal, on average, 35 damage. Untyped, no save. At level one, because Wizards done goofed.[/quote]

If it was a 4th-level spell, how would it be?

[Jormengand]

Uhm... sorry, don't have any idea how that works either.

I imagine it's meant to have a duration and allow you to make extra touch attacks during the duration with your standard actions. As-is, it actually lets you make them all in one go.


You can only use one mode per casting, but I see that I'm not the only one who thinks that spell is neat.

Still, it lets you prepare/learn a good combat spell and a good blasting spell in one slot, which is nice.


Lemme guess, untyped? Wow, Forcecage goes great with these kind of spells.

Yup.


If it was a 4th-level spell, how would it be?

A bit terrible, though it would be interesting with metamagic (PW: P deals 35 damage basic, but the empowered version would deal 78.75 damage and the maximised version would deal 96, and the empowered maximised version would deal 216. The trouble is that anyone who has that many hit points takes less damage or is flat-out immune.

[noce]

Haboob is a minute/level spell which deals 5d4 damage a round in an area, and also other stuff. If you can't find a use for that you're not trying hard enough.

I find it useful as a one round blindness with no save, but it's not so easy to make your enemies stay put in the haboob for more than that.

Sure, Forcecage and the like. But it's more a fact of Forcecage being good rather than Haboob.

[danielxcutter]

I find it useful as a one round blindness with no save, but it's not so easy to make your enemies stay put in the haboob for more than that.

Sure, Forcecage and the like. But it's more a fact of Forcecage being good rather than Haboob.

Not a bad point, but Forcecage doesn't do much by itself.

[Kaleph]

Stored lightning bolt (wiz/sor 7) is ok, the damage is capped at 20d6, it's electricity, it may assume two shapes (line and spread), has a built-in delay spell effect, and you can balance it between being a standard AoE spell, or dealing more damage (40d6) to a single target and less to the others.

It has all the typical drawbacks of the blasts, though, including SR and ST.

[Eldariel]

Not a bad point, but Forcecage doesn't do much by itself.

Imprisoning someone for days is often just as efficient as killing them. Often more so in a world of resurrective magick.

[danielxcutter]

Stored lightning bolt (wiz/sor 7) is ok, the damage is capped at 20d6, it's electricity, it may assume two shapes (line and spread), has a built-in delay spell effect, and you can balance it between being a standard AoE spell, or dealing more damage (40d6) to a single target and less to the others.

It has all the typical drawbacks of the blasts, though, including SR and ST.

Not bad. Give me this instead of Meteor Swarm any day.


Imprisoning someone for days is often just as efficient as killing them. Often more so in a world of resurrective magick.

Ah, I see. Still have to make sure they can't teleport out though.

[Eldariel]

Ah, I see. Still have to make sure they can't teleport out though.

Of course. Great for bypassing martial enemies though. After you raid the crypt, you ill care about its guardians after all. Or Swarm, just put it inside Wall of Stone. Harmless until someone lets it out.

Far as damage goes, Streamers from Shining South are hilarious. Whenever someone takes any action, they are hit for a lot. Very efficient.


SNA for Storm Elemental(s) from MM3 and Conjure Ice Beast with Ice aura from Frostburn are also efficient blasts for their level with leftover beast as a bonus. Also Rashemi Elementals from UE.

[danielxcutter]

Of course. Great for bypassing martial enemies though. After you raid the crypt, you ill care about its guardians after all.[quote]

No you do; what about the XP you'd get for shanking them?

[quote]Or Swarm, just put it inside Wall of Stone. Harmless until someone lets it out.

Sounds legit.


Far as damage goes, Streamers from Shining South are hilarious. Whenever someone takes any action, they are hit for a lot. Very efficient.

Pfffft lol :smallbiggrin: That's pretty sweet. I see that it's untyped damage too. Shame it's SR: Yes though.


SNA for Storm Elemental(s) from MM3 and Conjure Ice Beast with Ice aura from Frostburn are also efficient blasts for their level with leftover beast as a bonus. Also Rashemi Elementals from UE.

That's more of a feat than a spell, but I've heard about them too. Not bad.

[Eldariel]

No you do; what about the XP you'd get for...

You overcame the encounter anyways so you are due XP.



That's more of a feat than a spell, but I've heard about them too. Not bad.

Only Rashemi takes a feat. The other two are default options of their respective spells.


EDIT: Simple Fireball is respectable for its level vs. masses. Also Manyjaws.

[danielxcutter]

You overcame the encounter anyways so you are due XP.

Okay, but you still want to loot the corpses, right?


Only Rashemi takes a feat. The other two are default options of their respective spells.

Ah, right. Thanks for reminding me.


EDIT: Simple Fireball is respectable for its level vs. masses. Also Manyjaws.

I thought people say that Fireball is a waste of a spell slot.

Never heard of Manyjaws; what does that do?

[Uckleverry]

While not a spell by itself, I think "Chain Spell" metamagic needs to be mentioned.

Chain Spell Orb of X = fun <3

Can't apply Chain Spell to the orb spells or disintegrate since those aren't spells with the proper "Range: one creature [or humanoid/whatever]" entry.

[Eldariel]

Okay, but you still want to loot the corpses, right?

Depends. Not all enemies carry worthwhile treasure. And in many cases it's in their lair or the treasure room of the dungeon or whatever. But yes, it is a consideration.



I thought people say that Fireball is a waste of a spell slot.

It's usually not worth preparing because it is highly specific in its utility. 3.5 HP being insanely high by comparison makes it much worse than in AD&D. It's on average far less efficient than alternatives like Slow, Stnking Cloud, Haste, Dispel Magic, SMIII, etc. You don't prepare it blind. Fire damage is the most resisted and the damage is quite low.

However, it does have a niche: long range and rather large AOE make it very efficient vs. masses of low level targets, e.g. against armies of mooks in a war. Nice to know the spell but you do need to hit a lot of targets for it to pay off comparatively.



Never heard of Manyjaws what does that do?

CL jaws (max 10) biting for 1d6 force damage each for some rounds (concentration). 3rd level, Spell Compendium. Goes great with e.g. Sonorous Hum to concentrate for you.


Oh yeah, Creeping Cold (SC I think) is excellent if Extended or such. Scaling damage for the turns it's in effect.

[Gruftzwerg]

Can't apply Chain Spell to the orb spells or disintegrate since those aren't spells with the proper "Range: one creature [or humanoid/whatever]" entry.

"Text Trumps Table"
The rules text of the mentioned spells (Orb of X, Disintegrate) make it clear that you have a single target that you even need to hit (attack roll/ranged touch attack).
Further the range needs to be greater than touch what is the chase for both.
Imho perfectly valid spells for Chain Spell, cause it doesn't matter if the table specifies a target or not as long as the text did it in the first place.

[Eldariel]

Totally forgot Combust. 2nd level, 10d8, no rolls, debuff. Singletarget but a darn good one.

[Jormengand]

"Text Trumps Table"
The rules text of the mentioned spells (Orb of X, Disintegrate) make it clear that you have a single target that you even need to hit (attack roll/ranged touch attack).

The target entry for a spell is not a table; a better argument is that Chain Spell says that the spell must "Specify a single target", not that it can only do so in its actual target entry.

[noob]

How about true-name dispelling the life of your opponents?
The effect is that an infinity of lighting hits you thus dealing an infinity of lightning damage and gm damage.

[Gruftzwerg]

The target entry for a spell is not a table; a better argument is that Chain Spell says that the spell must "Specify a single target", not that it can only do so in its actual target entry.

Imho, there is a list of categories and values attached to it, which in other words would be a table.
But however you see it: as you pointed out in your 2nd sentence, since Chain Spells requirements doesn't specify the "target entry of a spell", rule text is still valid to fulfill the requirements.

[Jormengand]

How about true-name dispelling the life of your opponents?
The effect is that an infinity of lighting hits you thus dealing an infinity of lightning damage and gm damage.

Truename dispel only works on things which are "Effects", much like Iron Heart Surge. This allows you to end things like feats and the weather and the effects of spells, but the sun and hit points aren't "Effects".

[noob]

cue the part where you get hit by gm lightning when casting truename dispel for trying to remove the fact you have opponents or other stuff like that.

[Anthrowhale]

Persistent Cloud of Knives(C/S/W 2) + Hunter's Eye (Ranger 2) = free sneak attack 1/round all day long.
Persistent Darkfire (C 3) = iterative 5d6 fire attacks to range 120' all day long. Add Maximize, Empower, Energy Substitution, and Mark of the Enlightened Soul for giggles.
Persistent Holy Star (C 7) = 90' range 10d6 fire free attack 1/round all day long.

Erupt (Cleric 9) does 10*caster level fire damage in an overwhelming area.
Venomfire (C/D 3, Ranger 4) does caster level damage on poison attack all day long.

Edit: Oh yes, and there is Boreal Wind (D4, C/S/W 5) which does 15d4 cold + pushes caster level*3 feet to long range in a 10' line for caster level/2 rounds and is redirectable round to round. Downsides: Fortitude Negates, SR: Yes.

[Jormengand]

Oh, yeah, sneak attack. I feel that arcane tricksters should be mentioned at some point.

Remember how I said that Chill Touch was a dumb spell for letting you make a number of attacks equal to your caster level, and this was ridiculous because it just meant that it was an infinitely-scaling version of shocking grasp only, like, better? Turns out it's even more stupid than that.

Suppose you're a rog 3/wiz5/AT 10. Normally, if you want to blast, you're probably casting spells that deal about as much damage as maximised cone of cold, which is 75. However, since that's not a weaponlike spell (touch, ray, and spells which are actually weapons like arcane maul's melee function) you can't sneak attack with it, so you might turn to Scorching Ray (12d6+three sneak attacks is 115.5 average damage, which is more impressive).

Or, you could use Chill Touch. Remember how it allows you to make a number of attacks equal to your CL simultaneously? Yeah, if you have Practiced Spellcaster and no other source of +CL, that's eighteen sneak attacks, which means that you deal five hundred and four points of damage, on average, out of a level one spell slot. Sure, there are disadvantages (like you have to hit, and the short range which requires a slot-adjusting metamagic to overcome) but there are upsides too:

Clawed Spell is a normally-bad metamagic which adds 1d6/5 levels force damage to your touch spells, for a +1 adjustment. Applied to Chill Touch, that becomes another 54d6 damage (189), which is enough to be getting on with even if you don't have sneak attacks.

No-one's quite sure how often the effects of things like Fell Drain are applied either, but it could be a good basis to inflict many negative levels on someone.

In general, Chill Touch is a fun spell to apply practically any rider effects to - hell, even having prepared furnace within gives a two-sevenths boost to its base damage.

[noob]

I believed you were capped at 6 touch attack with a full round attack.
But maybe ranged touch attacks do not have the same cap on the number of attacks in one round?

[Jormengand]

I believed you were capped at 6 touch attack with a full round attack.
But maybe ranged touch attacks do not have the same cap on the number of attacks in one round?

I'm basing this on a line about instantaneous spells which let you make multiple attacks, which I think is from SpC. Might be in one of the other books though; I would have to check.

Even just the six attacks, though, would be useful.

[Nando]

I feel like there should be a possibility to make use of Dance of Ruin (BoVD p.90):
Brd/Clr/Demonologist/Sor/Wiz 2, Close Spread centred on caster 2d20 pints of untyped damage (to non-demon creatures, with Reflex half and SR: Yes and a full round of casting time, but still, d20s)...

[Fuzzy McCoy]

While it pales in comparison to maw of chaos, Iceberg from Frostburn is a pretty brutal DD spell. It causes 20d6 bludgeoning damage to anyone within 40ft of the center (and no save offered is they're within 20ft of the center) and buries anyone caught in snow. Anyone between 40-60ft only take 10d6, and aren't buried, but at that point if anyone is caught in the 40-60ft zone it's more of a nice side benefit than the intended consequence. It is a reflex based save with SR: Yes though.

[Xethik]

Not 1d6/lv/round. 1d6/round for CL number of rounds. But they're taking all of it. and they're not doing anything during that time.

Unless I'm misreading it, I think it is 1d6/ CL / round.

"All creatures in the area take 1d6 points of damage per caster level in the round when you cast the spell and each round thereafter at the start of your turn."

Emphasis mine.

[Anthrowhale]

Or, you could use Chill Touch. Remember how it allows you to make a number of attacks equal to your CL simultaneously? Yeah, if you have Practiced Spellcaster and no other source of +CL, that's eighteen sneak attacks, which means that you deal five hundred and four points of damage, on average, out of a level one spell slot. Sure, there are disadvantages (like you have to hit, and the short range which requires a slot-adjusting metamagic to overcome) but there are upsides too:


Storm Touch (9d6 Electricity +Stun Fort Neg), Corrosive Grasp (1d8 Acid), and Parching Touch (1d6 Desiccation + (1 Con + Dehydrate) Fort Neg) share the same language.

However, I broke out my Rules Compendium which says that extra damage only applies to the first attack :smallfrown:

On the upside, extra metamagic status effects are good. Fell Drain Reach Parching Touch is a reasonable debuff spell that becomes very good with metamagic reduction.

[Svata]

Why so it is.

I was wrong, and I'm sorry. But to be fair to me, it was VERY late at night.

[Xethik]

Why so it is.

I was wrong, and I'm sorry. But to be fair to me, it was VERY late at night.

No worries! Just wanted people to know just how strong the spell is!

[Jormengand]

However, I broke out my Rules Compendium which says that extra damage only applies to the first attack :smallfrown:

Though, whether the rules compendium is actually allowed to do anything it's meant to is a discussion all of its own...

[Venger]

I feel like there should be a possibility to make use of Dance of Ruin (BoVD p.90):
Brd/Clr/Demonologist/Sor/Wiz 2, Close Spread centred on caster 2d20 pints of untyped damage (to non-demon creatures, with Reflex half and SR: Yes and a full round of casting time, but still, d20s)...

Good luck being considered demoniac without destroying your ECL, though. By the time you've got pao or whatever up, it's unfortunately no longer relevant.


Storm Touch (9d6 Electricity +Stun Fort Neg), Corrosive Grasp (1d8 Acid), and Parching Touch (1d6 Desiccation + (1 Con + Dehydrate) Fort Neg) share the same language.

However, I broke out my Rules Compendium which says that extra damage only applies to the first attack :smallfrown:

On the upside, extra metamagic status effects are good. Fell Drain Reach Parching Touch is a reasonable debuff spell that becomes very good with metamagic reduction.

Those spells are pretty great too. throw scalding touch on the pile as well, fire damage and daze iirc.

[The Viscount]

I'm a fan of Spiritjaws, to directly attack enemies and grapple them. It's fairly good at it too, and counts as force.

Wracking Touch is niche, but a helpful vehicle.

Venomfire (dodges books)

[logic_error]

I would really take Orb of Fire. Take an arcane thesis in it. Maximize it. Empower it. Chain it. Make it electric with Energy Substitution and then add Born of three thunders. Takes a total of 6 feats. But at the end of it, you have an orb that goes around hits everyone, dazes and stuns them and then knocks them prone :P.

So much utility from one spell.

[Eldariel]

I would really take Orb of Fire. Take an arcane thesis in it. Maximize it. Empower it. Chain it. Make it electric with Energy Substitution and then add Born of three thunders. Takes a total of 6 feats. But at the end of it, you have an orb that goes around hits everyone, dazes and stuns them and then knocks them prone :P.

So much utility from one spell.

I wouldn't bother with Maximize before Twin or Energy Admixture. Max is really weak with Empower. Close range, Chain-issues and lack of guaranteed punchthrough a la Searing Spell, not to mention vulnerability to Friendly Fire make it a tad unreliable. A fine spell though, of course.

[TheFurith]

I've always been a fan of Hellfire, and Hellfire Storm myself. The fact that it isn't resistible, is untyped, is an AOE, and doesn't have a save I find quite nice.

Using DMM for maximized, twinspelled, empowered, Hellfire Storm for 240 damage that nothing can stop is fun. Even if is a once a day thing. I mean, I wish you luck with getting a DM to even let you play something that has the spell, let alone get away with doing that, but that's another issue.

Good spell either way.

[The Viscount]

I would really take Orb of Fire. Take an arcane thesis in it. Maximize it. Empower it. Chain it. Make it electric with Energy Substitution and then add Born of three thunders. Takes a total of 6 feats. But at the end of it, you have an orb that goes around hits everyone, dazes and stuns them and then knocks them prone :P.

So much utility from one spell.

You could save one of those feats by just starting with an orb of electricity. Entangle isn't as exciting as daze I know, but the enemy doesn't exactly need to be dazed and stunned. More importantly, I'm not so sure about applying Chain Spell, since the Orb of X spells don't have a target line, instead generating the orb as an effect.

[logic_error]

You could save one of those feats by just starting with an orb of electricity. Entangle isn't as exciting as daze I know, but the enemy doesn't exactly need to be dazed and stunned. More importantly, I'm not so sure about applying Chain Spell, since the Orb of X spells don't have a target line, instead generating the orb as an effect.

"Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch" Sounds like Orb of X. Also, the idea is not to both stun and daze, but to stun and/or daze :P. Also, daze is the more potent effect as few enemies are immune to it.

[Goaty14]

"69. There is more to wizardry than magic missile. Even if I can do 200 damage automatic with no save."
-2475 Things Mr. Welch is no longer allowed to do in an RPG

As explained in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-211863.html) thread.

[mabriss lethe]

At lower levels, I'm fond of Lightning Blade. Neither SR nor electricity resistance are particularly common early on. It's incredibly flexible, allowing you to add outside riders to it, has both a ranged and melee configuration, and can be used by anyone with the weapon proficiency.

Likewise, Fire shuriken is a lot of fun. You can cast the spell in downtime and just hang on to the shuriken until you need them, they're easily modified by cheap metamagic rods, also usable out of combat.

[ayvango]

I'm basing this on a line about instantaneous spells which let you make multiple attacks, which I think is from SpC. Might be in one of the other books though; I would have to check.

Even just the six attacks, though, would be useful.
Instantaneous is just a hint, see full spell description. It is hard to enclose complicated spell descriptions in rigid boundaries of spell header. Single spell could have multiple effects, it could have effects that produces other effects that may be traded for another effects and so on. Which effect should fill the the one field in the form? Common sense helps to read complicated spell description. I believe that Instantaneous duration belongs to damage effects that is produces by self-buff effect which works indefinitely long until discharged.

The most fearsome blasting spell is silent image due to its unrivalled flexibility. Also you could focus on the single spell and make metamagic significantly cheaper for it.

I pay extra attention to blasting that is not scaling with levels and has high enough damage output on starting level. It is a good choice for enchanting wands either charged or eternal. Light of Lunia/Mercuria/Venya line against undead, ray of stupidity (int damage) against animals, seeking ray as universal.

[Jormengand]

I believe that Instantaneous duration belongs to damage effects that is produces by self-buff effect which works indefinitely long until discharged.

No, that's "Permanent or until discharged", which appears on all spells which actually work that way.

A spell with multiple effects, incidentally, can have a duration like "Instantaneous or one round/level" or "See text", with it explaining properly what parts of the spell have what duration.

[noce]

No, that's "Permanent or until discharged", which appears on all spells which actually work that way.

A spell with multiple effects, incidentally, can have a duration like "Instantaneous or one round/level" or "See text", with it explaining properly what parts of the spell have what duration.

Chill touch cannot use the "Permanent or until discharged" duration.
Chill touch is a touch spell, and you can hold the charge (or charges) indefinitely, but:
- if you cast another spell, Chill touch dissipates
- touching anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, discharges the spell

For these reasons, Chill touch is not permanent.
It instantly gives you the ability to make a number of touch attacks with a given effect.

Now, the text of the spell does not specify that you cannot do 20 touch attack rolls in a single round, but the rules describing how touch attacks work are clear in the SRD. You can do:
- a touch attack in the round you cast the spell
- a touch attack as a standard action
- a number of touch attacks limited by BAB as a full round action

What you say has no sense per RAW, let alone RAI.
I truly hope you do not play in actual games with such a grasp of the rules, otherwise I foresee a lot of books thrown at you by both DM and players.

[Jormengand]

Chill touch cannot use the "Permanent or until discharged" duration.
Chill touch is a touch spell, and you can hold the charge (or charges) indefinitely, but:
- if you cast another spell, Chill touch dissipates
- touching anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, discharges the spell

So... it's permanent, until you discharge it using one of these methods, you mean? No, it's not; it's instantaneous. Let's have a look what that means:

"Instantaneous

The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting."

I hope you don't mean to imply that the ability to make touch attacks doesn't have anything to do with the spell's energy.


It instantly gives you the ability to make a number of touch attacks with a given effect.

Now, the text of the spell does not specify that you cannot do 20 touch attack rolls in a single round, but the rules describing how touch attacks work are clear in the SRD. You can do:
- a touch attack in the round you cast the spell
- a touch attack as a standard action
- a number of touch attacks limited by BAB as a full round action

What you say has no sense per RAW, let alone RAI.
I truly hope you do not play in actual games with such a take of the rules, otherwise I foresee a lot of books thrown at you by both DM and players.

So meteor swarm doesn't work, either? Becuase nothing specifies that you can make multiple attacks when casting the spell?

Hah, just kidding, they both do:

"WEAPONLIKE SPELLS
Any spell that requires an attack roll and deals damage functions as a weapon in certain respects... Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. For example, a 7th-level sorcerer/3rd-level rogue [who therefore only has a base attack bonus of +5, not +6/1] with Point Blank Shot makes a scorching ray attack at less than 30 feet (two rays, each requiring a ranged touch attack roll and dealing 4d6 points of fire damage)."
- Complete Arcane

"Several spells, such as scorching ray and meteor swarm, require the user to make multiple ranged touch attacks. Does the caster have to use the full attack action to use all the ranged touch attacks these spells allow? If so, how does this work? Does the caster have to hold the charge (like a touch spell) and then use the full attack action later? Also what attack bonus does the caster use? Can the caster use his full attack bonus for each ranged touch attack, or does the caster’s attack bonus decrease by 5 for each attack? What happens if the caster uses the Quicken Spell feat and casts the spell as a free action? What attack bonus does he use then? How many ranged touch attacks can he make? Do the caster’s other actions during the rest of the round affect his attack bonus when using the spell?

Both of the example spells have a casting time of 1 standard action and an instantaneous duration. The caster uses the cast a spell action (a standard action), and makes all the ranged touch attacks the spell allows as part of that standard action (not as part of the attack or full attack action); making these attacks is not an action at all."
-FAQ

"Chill Touch
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration: Instantaneous"
-System reference document.

Neither RAW nor RAI, you say?

[ayvango]

You could pay attention to the other fields of the spell header. It says the range is touch. So you should obey normal rules for touch attacks (and holding charge). You may say that description trumps header, but the same is for the duration field.

[Anthrowhale]

Both of the example spells have a casting time of 1 standard action and an instantaneous duration. The caster uses the cast a spell action (a standard action), and makes all the ranged touch attacks the spell allows as part of that standard action (not as part of the attack or full attack action); making these attacks is not an action at all."


About the same text is in the Rules Compendium.

[logic_error]

You could pay attention to the other fields of the spell header. It says the range is touch. So you should obey normal rules for touch attacks (and holding charge). You may say that description trumps header, but the same is for the duration field.

Considering how touch spells interact with Reach Spell feat, I would think this is not the case. The range being touch or ranged touch is RAI at least not very different due to Reach spell.

[Jormengand]

You could pay attention to the other fields of the spell header. It says the range is touch. So you should obey normal rules for touch attacks (and holding charge). You may say that description trumps header, but the same is for the duration field.

I mean, you can hold the charge on Chill Touch if you want, but that's an optional thing.


About the same text is in the Rules Compendium.

RC! That's where it is! I kept misremembering it as SC, and I was like "Maybe it's in CA, that also has a lot of magicky things in it" and finding the bit about weaponlike spells. Here's what RC has to say about multiple attacks:

"Casting time takes precedence over normal rules for attacks, unless a spell’s description says otherwise. If a spell allows its caster to make multiple attacks and has a casting time of 1 standard action, all those attacks occur during that standard action. "

Does Chill Touch "Say otherwise"? Not in the slightest.

[Anthrowhale]

There are a couple trap spells that are really good.

Sacred item(Cleric/Paladin 4) does 10d4 "positive energy damage" to undead, evil outsiders, and evil shapechangers. It's permanent until discharged and never discharges on the caster. Cast offline with maximize/empower on arrows this makes ranged attacks situationally powerful. Cast on armor it provides a potent situational defense. Cast on a glove that you shake hands with it's a passive Doppelganger/Rakshasa detector. It does have will negates, so do the offline casting with Heighten spell as necessary.

Fang Trap(Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard 4) does no save immobility with <uncapped>d4 damage fortitude negates. It's more limited in use (as glyph of warding), but is a potentially exceptional lair trap. If you are a loner then set it to always trigger and note that it never triggers for you. This also makes a mean present.

Both of these spells have no expensive material component so offline use is limited only by spell slots.

[danielxcutter]

There are a couple trap spells that are really good.

If it's a trap then it's not good... oh, that trap.


Sacred item(Cleric/Paladin 4) does 10d4 "positive energy damage" to undead, evil outsiders, and evil shapechangers. It's permanent until discharged and never discharges on the caster. Cast offline with maximize/empower on arrows this makes ranged attacks situationally powerful. Cast on armor it provides a potent situational defense. Cast on a glove that you shake hands with it's a passive Doppelganger/Rakshasa detector. It does have will negates, so do the offline casting with Heighten spell as necessary.

I should probably note this for if I want to make a Zen Archery Cleric. Stick this on a holy evil outsider/undead bane arrow for maximum ouchiness.

[quote[Fang Trap(Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard 4) does no save immobility with <uncapped>d4 damage fortitude negates. It's more limited in use (as glyph of warding), but is a potentially exceptional lair trap. If you are a loner then set it to always trigger and note that it never triggers for you. This also makes a mean present.

Both of these spells have no expensive material component so offline use is limited only by spell slots.[/QUOTE]

Neat!

[Eldariel]

In such a vein, Explosive Runes of course warrants a mention. Particularly stacked on a bomb and triggered all at once. Also Shrink Item to lob e.g. massive boulders or any objects at people.

Flame Arrow and various arrow enhancements such as Arrow Split and Arrow of Bone can do brutal stuff with metamagic.

[danielxcutter]

In such a vein, Explosive Runes of course warrants a mention. Particularly stacked on a bomb and triggered all at once.


:vaarsuvius: I prepared Explosive Runes on this stone. Several times.

:smallbiggrin:


Also Shrink Item to lob e.g. massive boulders or any objects at people.

I think that this happened in Kaveman's campaign log once. It had something to do with a Bag of Holding...


Flame Arrow and various arrow enhancements such as Arrow Split and Arrow of Bone can do brutal stuff with metamagic.

What do those do? I mean, the first is self-explainatory, but I haven't heard about the other two. And honestly, I haven't heard about Flame Arrow either.

[logic_error]

Does the spell explosive runes really work like that? Can you really stack it? I think if it is used this way only one spell will go off on read. Unless you use secret page cleverly and disguise all the writing as one line.

[danielxcutter]

Does the spell explosive runes really work like that? Can you really stack it? I think if it is used this way only one spell will go off on read. Unless you use secret page cleverly and disguise all the writing as one line.

Dunno honestly, but that would be hilarious wouldn't it?

Maybe you could put it on each page of a book?

[Eldariel]

Does the spell explosive runes really work like that? Can you really stack it? I think if it is used this way only one spell will go off on read. Unless you use secret page cleverly and disguise all the writing as one line.

Generally the triggering method is a failed area dispel attempt. Dispel is cast by proxy (since you always succeed on dispelling your own spells) such as familiar, summon, ally, simulacrum or bound creature at minimum caster level. It fails for most/all Runes and they all go boom simultaneously.


Arrowsplit is from Champs of Ruin and splits one arrow into many. You can meta.agic it to split into more and to affect more arrows. Arrow of Bone is from Spell Compendium and makes a single arrow force SOD. Chain it, fire a volley and well...

[danielxcutter]

Generally the triggering method is a failed area dispel attempt. Dispel is cast by proxy (since you always succeed on dispelling your own spells) such as familiar, summon, ally, simulacrum or bound creature at minimum caster level. It fails for most/all Runes and they all go boom simultaneously.

Or just cast it on a bunch of things and make someone fail all the dispel checks if the DM doesn't allow them to stack I guess.


Arrowsplit is from Champs of Ruin and splits one arrow into many. You can meta.agic it to split into more and to affect more arrows. Arrow of Bone is from Spell Compendium and makes a single arrow force SOD. Chain it, fire a volley and well...

:eek:

[Eldariel]

Or just cast it on a bunch of things and make someone fail all the dispel checks if the DM doesn't allow them to stack I guess.

Easer to deliver a single document to the target via throwing, a carrier or whatever. But yes, that works.

[danielxcutter]

Easer to deliver a single document to the target via throwing, a carrier or whatever. But yes, that works.

Hmm, does destroying the object(s) work? That could be abusable...

Also great handbook you have in your sig

[logic_error]

Hmm, does destroying the object(s) work? That could be abusable...

Also great handbook you have in your sig

I doubt it. I also don't think the dispel idea would work, once again only triggering the *first* dispel check. What I *think* you can get away with is, using secret page. Just scramble all the runes into ONE sentence, like, "I prepared MANY runes today and they are all in this sentence". Reading just that would be equal to reading all due to how secret page works. BOOOOM.