Plane Shift questions

[Tyrant]

If a character can Plane Shift (a monsterous race that can do so at will, for instance), can they use that ability to move between Prime Material planes such as FR (Toril) and Eberron or Krynn?

If not, is there another way beyond something like "random portal" that links the settings?

[Florian]

If a character can Plane Shift (a monsterous race that can do so at will, for instance), can they use that ability to move between Prime Material planes such as FR (Toril) and Eberron or Krynn?

If not, is there another way beyond something like "random portal" that links the settings?

It´s more a question of the cosmology you use and how that will affect the settings and plane shift.

D&D used the Great Wheel as an unified cosmology up to and including 3E, but started to create setting-depended cosmologies for FR (World Tree) and Eberron (with Dragonlanced and Ravenloft being handed to 3pp and therefore totally unavailable).

If you use the Great Wheel, then it´s a two-step process: Plane Shift to another plane, then Plane Shift to the setting world that you want to reach. If you don´t use that cosmology, then bad luck, it can´t be done by RAW.

[Âmesang]

On the other hand the Player's Guide to Faerûn still makes mention that the various material worlds (Oerth, Toril, &c.) are linked to each other via the Plane of Shadow.

[Florian]

On the other hand the Player's Guide to Faerûn still makes mention that the various material worlds (Oerth, Toril, &c.) are linked to each other via the Plane of Shadow.

3,5 was practically the "no balls" edition where writers should not, under any circumstance, p**s of the customers. So naturally you´ll find something like that, even after recreating the whole cosmology.

[Lazymancer]

If a character can Plane Shift (a monsterous race that can do so at will, for instance), can they use that ability to move between Prime Material planes such as FR (Toril) and Eberron or Krynn?

If not, is there another way beyond something like "random portal" that links the settings?Question isn't specific enough. Is the question practical, RAW, or IC?

1) Practical
Ask GM. Regardless of rules GM can't accommodate indiscriminate plane-hopping without some preparation. And most will not look kindly on people going to some setting said GM doesn't know much about (and doesn't wish to spend time researching).


2) Rules as Written
There is a certain disconnect. RAW you can Plane Shift anywhere (not directly between Prime Material planes, but you can make a stop on some other plane and go from there), as long as you have the focus (fork) and the plane in question isn't explicitly prohibiting arrival via Plane Shift.

Arguably, some forks might be hard to come by (as per spell), but fork is not explicitly listed as expensive component. Consequently, RAW all spell pouches have infinite amount of forks for all planes, and Plane Shift as spell-like or supernatural ability (or with Eschew Materials) will not even require focus.


3) In-Character Lore
Fork for specific Prime Material must be made on that specific Prime Material. Consequently, you might have problems finding Eberron forks, since nobody goes there - or from there. You also need to know about the place IC, of course.


As for alternative methods of interplanar transportation - there is Shadow Plane that connects all Prime Materials. But methods of it's use are not explained anywhere, so it's no different from elaborate "random portal" clause.

[Zancloufer]

I don't know if there is a definite answer.

My personal answer? No. You could not plane shift between some planes as the standard Plane Shift spell can only go between planes that are within a certain "distance" of each other. You could probably shift to all the "local planes" (Material, Shadow, Ethereal, Astral and the outer planes based off alignment) but to shift past that you would have to find a hub plane like Sigil.

Basically the standard Plane Shift spell wouldn't be powerful enough to other settings unless there was already some sort of path/portal from another source connecting them already. IIRC Sigil pretty much outright states that it can allow travel between something like Greyhawk and Toril but the portals are hidden/controlled in some way.

EDIT: (Swordsages!) On the note of Tuning Forks, while by RAW they are not expensive from a RAI perspective as a DM I would make you work for them. At the very least a pricey focus from a mage shop, or the wizard would have to fashion one himself from remains left behind by an outsider from the plane in question.

[Tyrant]

Question isn't specific enough. Is the question practical, RAW, or IC?
I'm honestly open to any answers.

1) Practical
Ask GM. Regardless of rules GM can't accommodate indiscriminate plane-hopping without some preparation. And most will not look kindly on people going to some setting said GM doesn't know much about (and doesn't wish to spend time researching).

In this case I'm the DM. It will almost exclusively be a character that I control so I'm not terribly worried about a bunch of indiscriminate plane-hopping. If I go this route the end goal is to introduce a few things from Eberron into FR. I can BS my way through why others aren't doing this (if any players think to ask, logical consistency isn't a high priority for them so far) and none of the players that could potentially do this have shown any desire to do so. Also, I'm aware that I could use other ways to bring these things over.


2) Rules as Written
There is a certain disconnect. RAW you can Plane Shift anywhere (not directly between Prime Material planes, but you can make a stop on some other plane and go from there), as long as you have the focus (fork) and the plane in question isn't explicitly prohibiting arrival via Plane Shift.

Arguably, some forks might be hard to come by (as per spell), but fork is not explicitly listed as expensive component. Consequently, RAW all spell pouches have infinite amount of forks for all planes, and Plane Shift as spell-like or supernatural ability (or with Eschew Materials) will not even require focus.

The character in question can do it via spell-like ability.


3) In-Character Lore
Fork for specific Prime Material must be made on that specific Prime Material. Consequently, you might have problems finding Eberron forks, since nobody goes there - or from there. You also need to know about the place IC, of course.
Can you elaborate on your Eberron comments? I'm not too versed in Eberron lore.


As for alternative methods of interplanar transportation - there is Shadow Plane that connects all Prime Materials. But methods of it's use are not explained anywhere, so it's no different from elaborate "random portal" clause.
Gotcha.

[Florian]

@Tyrant:

Eberron was not exactly written to be part of the general D&D universe and the setting cosmology doesn´t really match the general Great Wheel cosmology (or World Tree).

So it´s hard to give you a RAW answer. It works when you or your gm rules it to be part of the overall cosmos, then every method to reach it is legit.

[flappeercraft]

Well, there was in Dragon Magazine 351 the World Sepent Inn which basically connects all planes. It gave connections to Eberron, Faerun and Greyhawk which can be noticed when you see that there are 3 NPC's which belong to thosw planes.

I think it also got added to MotP on a web enhancement

[Tyrant]

@Florian
Thanks for the clarification.


Well, there was in Dragon Magazine 351 the World Sepent Inn which basically connects all planes. It gave connections to Eberron, Faerun and Greyhawk which can be noticed when you see that there are 3 NPC's which belong to thosw planes.

I think it also got added to MotP on a web enhancement
Thanks. I vaguely remember that so I might actually have that issue.

[Âmesang]

Arguably, some forks might be hard to come by (as per spell), but fork is not explicitly listed as expensive component. Consequently, RAW all spell pouches have infinite amount of forks for all planes, and Plane Shift as spell-like or supernatural ability (or with Eschew Materials) will not even require focus.
I feel that this is a bit of a misconception; Player's Handbook, p.181 says, "an M or F appearing at the end of a spell's name in the spell lists denotes a spell with a material or focus component, respectively, that is not normally included in a spell component pouch." P.185 ("5th-level cleric spells") and p.195 ("7th-level sorcerer/wizard spells") both list plane shift with an F; so just because the fork components don't have a listed price doesn't necessarily mean you'll find 'em in a spell component pouch.

As such I find a reasonable house rule is that every component pouch contains a C-note tuning fork forged from native steel so that a caster can always plane shift back to his native world (alter-to-taste for extraplanar casters; see, "Plane Speaking," DRAGON Magazine #120, p.42, a fun little article I still like to reference… so much so that I actually bought myself a C-note steel tuning fork to use as a prop).

"A Trip to the Market" from the Savage Tide Adventure Path, DUNGEON Magazine #148, p.57, also lists some extraplanar tuning fork costs:

Particularly common in the Broken Reach market place are the metal rods used as focus components for plane shifting to different layers of the Abyss. Rods for relatively well-known layers such as Pazunia, the Demonweb, Gaping Maw, Thanatos, and Shendilvari sell for 3,000 gp. Rods for more obscure layers, such as Twelvetrees, Shedaklah, and Androlynne sell for 9,000 gp. Rods for truly remote realms, such as the Dreaming Gulf, the Blood Shallows, or Zionyn sell for 15,000 gp. Certain rods are particularly rare, as the Abyss itself resists allowing travel to its deepest and most important layers. This includes layers like Ulgurshek, Woeful Escarand, and the Wells of Darkness; these rods cost 40,000 gp apiece.

The LIVING GREYHAWK™ adventure, "Isle of Woe," lists an ethereal plane tuning fork with a value of "20 gp per PC" (p.11).


Eberron was not exactly written to be part of the general D&D universe and the setting cosmology doesn´t really match the general Great Wheel cosmology (or World Tree).
Yet that didn't stop Eberronian mages from learning off-world spells written by Mordenkainen, Leomund, Tenser, &c. :smalltongue: Unless we assume that they go by different names in-story and are merely presented with the default names for player convenience.

Then again Dungeons & Dragons Online had that EBERRON®/FORGOTTEN REALMS® crossover (http://store.steampowered.com/app/213195/Dungeons__Dragons_Online_Menace_of_the_Underdark/) (which makes sense considering Lolth holds dominion over a number of material planes… why not add one more to her collection?).

EDIT:

As for alternative methods of interplanar transportation - there is Shadow Plane that connects all Prime Materials. But methods of it's use are not explained anywhere, so it's no different from elaborate "random portal" clause.
Well, there's the shadow walk spell which details traveling from one material plane to another via the Plane of Shadow, taking approximately 1d4 hours to do so, and I mentioned earlier that the Player's Guide to Faerûn tried to elaborate on its use (which makes me wonder if the Outer Planes are set in stone or are simply perceived differently from person to person?).


Travelling the Planes

As described in Manual of the Planes, the Plane of Shadow constitutes the primary link between Toril's planar cosmology and those of other worlds. The Plane of Shadow connects Toril's Material Plane with those of other worlds, including the default world for the D&D core books—the WORLD OF GREYHAWK®. Naturally, in a land as full of magical portals as Faerûn is, unusual portals that connect to other Material Planes via conduits through the Plane of Shadow almost certainly exist. Some sages point to such connections as the source of spells named after the great wizards of Greyhawk, such as Otto's irresistible dance, Otiluke's freezing sphere, Tenser's transformation, and the various Bigby's hand spells.

Player's Guide to Faerûn, p.140

Plane of Shadow

Coterminous to and coexistent with the Material Plane, Toril's Plane of Shadow is more than just a transitive plane. While it can be used for travel, it is also the home of two Faerûnian deities, and thus it has some of the characteristics of an Outer Plane. It also holds conduits similar to those found on the Astral Plane that link Toril with other Material Planes and other worlds.

Shadow Links: As a transitive plane, the Plane of Shadow is much like one infinite link. Travelers can enter it from the Material Plane by casting shadow walk, or draw its substance into the Material Plane by means of any illusion (shadow) spell. The Plane of Shadow does not connect to the Ethereal Plane, but it does lead to alternate Material Planes.

Player's Guide to Faerûn, p.162

[Bronk]

Well, there was in Dragon Magazine 351 the World Sepent Inn which basically connects all planes. It gave connections to Eberron, Faerun and Greyhawk which can be noticed when you see that there are 3 NPC's which belong to thosw planes.

I think it also got added to MotP on a web enhancement

Also, the Infinite Staircase, which featured heavily in Planescape, but also appeared in 3.5 in the Manual of the Planes p86, and the Planar Handbook, p138.

[torrasque666]

Yet that didn't stop Eberronian mages from learning off-world spells written by Mordenkainen, Leomund, Tenser, &c. :smalltongue: Unless we assume that they go by different names in-story and are merely presented with the default names for player convenience.


Well remember that in things like the SRD those spell all have different names as well. Hell, some players are more familiar with the "generic" names of Mage's Magnificent Mansion, Mage's Disjunction, the Fist spells (lacking the Bigby prefix), Magical Transformation, etc. So it stands to reason that yes, they do in fact go by different names in setting.