Bladeplayer (Bard Archetype)

[Briton]

So I've been developing a bard archetype based on the idea of controlling a weapon through music, such as:

Scaramouche from Samurai Jack (https://youtu.be/gonPB1VGw-g?t=57)

Yondu from Guardians of the Galaxy https://youtu.be/d5Gz7MeSbF4?t=16.

The idea is this:


A Bladeplayer may spend one bardic performance from as a standard action to control a single unattended weapon weighing no more than 2 lbs./level within 25 ft. + 5ft/level for 1 minute. She can, as a swift action, change control to a different unattended weapon. If the weapon goes outside her range, she loses Perception of it or stops performing, the weapon will drop to the ground. The weapon attacks any opponent within range, as she desires, starting the round that the bard activates this ability. The bardic performance must use Perform (Keyboard Instrument, Percussion, String, Sing or Wind)

The weapon attacks its designated target each round at the beginning of her turn. Its attack bonus is equal to her base attack bonus, but uses her Charisma modifier instead of her Strength modifier on attack rolls. If she is not proficient with the weapon, she applies penalties as normal with these attacks. This attack’s damage is equal to the base damage of the weapon + her Charisma modifier. As a full-round action, she may attack with both a weapon in her hand weapon and her telekinetic weapon, however both weapons will have a -2 attack penalty (like Two-Weapon Fighting).

This ability replaces Inspire Courage

But being that the ability replaces inspire courage, I feel that the ability should be able to improve whenever inspire courage would have improved. Are there any ideas for such an improvement?

[Florian]

Interesting. There´s a Wizard archetype that can use Hand of the Apprentice to handle a sword in this way. You should look it up, as that actually gets boni along the way.

[Geddy2112]

I think that is pretty cool, and I would love to see and playtest the finished product if you are interested.

Sword binder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo-wizard-archetypes/sword-binder-wizard/) is the wizard florian mentioned that you could pick upgrades from. That said, bards don't have all that many touch spells they want to deliver in combat...

Most weapons are not all that heavy, I don't see an issue with making it 1lb/level, and perhaps even changing the range to close 25+5ft per 2 levels.
For improving the performance, you could ad an additional weapon to the mix or an additional attack with the weapon at levels when inspire courage goes to +2,+3, etc. Might want to have to spend additional rounds though because a bunch of attacks as a free action might be too good.

I would probably say this performance cannot be continued with lingering performance. Because it already allows the bard to attack and cast each turn, or attack with the floating weapon and their own(although making this require full rounding and TWF is fairly balanced)

[Briton]

I think that is pretty cool, and I would love to see and playtest the finished product if you are interested.

Sword binder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo-wizard-archetypes/sword-binder-wizard/) is the wizard florian mentioned that you could pick upgrades from. That said, bards don't have all that many touch spells they want to deliver in combat...

Most weapons are not all that heavy, I don't see an issue with making it 1lb/level, and perhaps even changing the range to close 25+5ft per 2 levels.
For improving the performance, you could ad an additional weapon to the mix or an additional attack with the weapon at levels when inspire courage goes to +2,+3, etc. Might want to have to spend additional rounds though because a bunch of attacks as a free action might be too good.

I would probably say this performance cannot be continued with lingering performance. Because it already allows the bard to attack and cast each turn, or attack with the floating weapon and their own(although making this require full rounding and TWF is fairly balanced)

The original reason I did have it at 2lbs/level is so that way the bard could at more medium levels could use some heavier weapons, like most 2-handed weapons. The range I have now does seem a little short to me though, so I may change that.

If I went with the route of able to pick up more weapons, the question would be that would each additional weapon generate an additional -2 penalty for all weapons involved? Or perhaps would it be a -4 penalty for just the additional weapon, -6 for the one after that, etc.?

Another idea I had is what if the weapon could perform combat maneuvers? That may become a little OP, so I'm not sure yet.

[Geddy2112]

The original reason I did have it at 2lbs/level is so that way the bard could at more medium levels could use some heavier weapons, like most 2-handed weapons. The range I have now does seem a little short to me though, so I may change that. 2 lbs/level might be okay then, I forgot that 2 handed weapons can be kind of heavy and it would let the bard access them before level 12+


If I went with the route of able to pick up more weapons, the question would be that would each additional weapon generate an additional -2 penalty for all weapons involved? Or perhaps would it be a -4 penalty for just the additional weapon, -6 for the one after that, etc.? Maybe they get a # of attacks total(say, a 2nd at inspire courage 2) that equals the number of weapons active. Might be best to stick with one weapon though and give it more attacks or bonuses.


Another idea I had is what if the weapon could perform combat maneuvers? That may become a little OP, so I'm not sure yet.So long as you stick to combat maneuvers weapons can already do(namely trip, disarm, sunder, and steal) you should be fine. A sword grappling somebody is probably not okay...

[Prime32]

DSP's Steelforge has a magic instrument that summons a floating weapon(s) while you play it, and can be enchanted with magic weapon properties as a normal weapon.

[Psyren]

I'd have it get scaling untyped attack bonuses; simply using Cha to hit isn't enough. Bards have 3/4th BAB, and without Inspire Courage, that means they end up eating a -5 to attack relative to a full BAB class with no bonuses. In Pathfinder, most of the martial 3/4 BAB classes and archetypes get some kind of scaling bonus that lets them keep up with full BAB ones - Martial Alchemists get their mutagen, Martial Inquisitors get judgment, Monks get flurry, Warpriests get sacred weapon, Hunters get animal focus and so on.

The wizard archetype mentioned above has a similar problem - actually a worse one, making it a trap. Sure it gets Int to attack, but you're stuck with the wizard's poor BAB. You can either use it to deliver touch attacks (which shouldn't really have a problem hitting anyway and ignore any damage bonuses on the weapon) or you can use it to deliver ranged attacks, which have you eating up to a -10 to hit relative to a full BAB character and don't get iteratives since it inherits from Hand of the Apprentice. So I'm not sure I'd recommend using that as a template either.

Finally, I would restrict this ability to musical performances. There's already plenty of martial bard archetypes that use dancing, and while telling your sword endless dad jokes to send it into a murderous frenzy is certainly understandable, I don't think oratory and comedy lend themselves particularly well to this concept either.

[Briton]

I'd have it get scaling untyped attack bonuses; simply using Cha to hit isn't enough. Bards have 3/4th BAB, and without Inspire Courage, that means they end up eating a -5 to attack relative to a full BAB class with no bonuses. In Pathfinder, most of the martial 3/4 BAB classes and archetypes get some kind of scaling bonus that lets them keep up with full BAB ones - Martial Alchemists get their mutagen, Martial Inquisitors get judgment, Monks get flurry, Warpriests get sacred weapon, Hunters get animal focus and so on.


This is a really good point that I missed. Would this be solved by controlling more than one weapon without penalty? Or as Prime32 noted, granting magical properties to controlled weapon?



Finally, I would restrict this ability to musical performances. There's already plenty of martial bard archetypes that use dancing, and while telling your sword endless dad jokes to send it into a murderous frenzy is certainly understandable, I don't think oratory and comedy lend themselves particularly well to this concept either.

This makes logical sense. Thanks! Sing, String, Percussion, Keyboard and Wind will most likely be the skills that can use this ability.

[Hackulator]

Look at Master of the Unseen Hand from Complete Warrior, works exactly like this put is a PrC for Wizards, should give you an idea of fair progression.

Also watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsI5B6QQqIk

[Psyren]

This is a really good point that I missed. Would this be solved by controlling more than one weapon without penalty? Or as Prime32 noted, granting magical properties to controlled weapon?

The former no, the latter yes - provided you (a) put a basic enhancement bonus on the list of properties that can be granted (similar to a Magus' arcane pool) and (b) like the arcane pool, allow it to stack with any enhancement on the weapon up to a max of +5. (Once capped, they can put any excess towards other properties like ghost touch and sonic.)