Optimizing the Elder Earth Elemental's feats?

[SangoProduction]

So, in 3.5, there's the Elder Earth Elemental. It's a pretty sizable foe but...its feats are all over the place. I mean, Improved Sunder? It has Improved Bull Rush when it already has Push? Let alone the fact that those are wastes of actions in almost all circumstances. And the difference between +27 and +29 Spot/Listen is virtually nothing, so Alertness is similarly a wasted feat. And it has the Cleave line - not the most optimal choice. And of course, Improved Critical on non-critically-based attack. Derp.

I'm trying to reoptimize its feats so that they're like...competently chosen. But, of course, I suck at feats. I'm thinking that Travel Devotion is probably a good pick, as always, since it's supposed to be a melee bruiser of some sort. The only way I can think of to get more natural attacks is to just go with Mourning Mutate and Deepspawn. But, fluff-wise, that's a tad weird.

We could also, probably, go for Improved and Superior Unarmed strike for the 4 unarmed attacks at 3d6 each, and just let the slam be secondary. (Also, oddly enough, I think the stats in the manual are applying 1x Str to damage, rather than 1.5x as you're supposed to for primary natural attacks.)

And, at that point, may as well drop a bit of coin on Necklace of Natural Weapons.

[hamishspence]

It's only when a single primary natural attack is the only attack the monster gets, the equivalent of a two-handed weapon, that they get +1.5x Str bonus.

While low-size elementals get 1 attack, high-size ones get two - suggesting they're like two single-handed weapons.

[Fizban]

Well it's got nothing but core feats, so yeah. Alertness could be there from the "oh crap all the monsters are short a feat give them Alertness" wave or just because they ran out of earthy feats. Improved Bull Rush is +4 to bull rushing weather or not you needed it to avoid provoking. Sunder and Disarm are laughed at until the DM actually uses them, at which point they're accused of being unfair-does that really make them laughable? Improved Crit also gets a lot of flak, until people get critted. No one expects Great Cleave to matter against PCs, it's for letting the nigh invincible rock tank mow down the armies faster.

You only get 1.5x str with a single natural weapon, 2 slams is 2 natural weapons. Rapidstrike gives you more slam attacks. Improved Natural Attack increases it from 2d10 to 4d8 (DMG p28 has the table with base 2d10 on it). There are what, two other versions of auto-bull rush on hit? Which can replace Awesome Blow.

There's room for 2 epic feats.

Roll With It can be taken multiple times and stacks with the innate DR.

Incarnum feats do lots of things.

[noob]

Except that for taking epic feats you need class levels.(or to have them as racial bonus feats)
Which elder earth elementals do not get unless they take class levels.

[hamishspence]

Actually if you go by Epic Handbook and the DMG, any monster with 21+ Hit Dice can take epic feats - those Hit Dice don't have to be class level hit dice.

If you're treating it like it was a character - gaining hit dice from Small onward, and choosing its feats whenever the Hit Dice allow for it - then the last two feats - the ones at 21st and 24th level - can be epic ones.

Dungeonscape went into more detail on changing the Default Feat Selection for monsters to make them more interesting encounters.

[Eldan]

I've never seen a monster that couldn't profit from some Incarnum feats. The Earth Elemental would probably also like some Stone Dragon maneuvers, just because.

[noob]

Feats
Every character gains one feat (which may be an epic or nonepic feat at the player’s choice) at every level divisible by three. These feats are in addition to any bonus feats granted in the class descriptions.
You see it is when you have levels and racial hit dice is not necessarily level.
That was the thing I was speaking about.
With dmg only if you give epic feats to creatures with only rhd then it means that rhd is level which opens one additional can of worms: now you have to rewrite all the monsters since now their rhd no longer progress bab in epic since level do not progress bab in epic.(the creature however gets epic attack bonus and epic save bonus but it means that epic dragon hit dice is the worst kind of epic hit dice: you are better off with taking two times more epic humanoid hit dice(increase equally cr and gives you purely more now))

[ExLibrisMortis]

Hmmm.

CR 11, 24 HD. Two epic feats, initiator level 12. I don't think it's a good idea to take earth elementals away from simple bruisers. You can slap on things like Planar Ward to make them immune to mind control, throw on a Spellward Shirt and a stack of essentia boosters to grant SR (you can get SR 25 by investing six feats), and make a magical rock, but I like the pure bruiser appeal.

Epic feats are a bit disappointing, but they can get you DR 6/– on top of the existing DR 10/–. With epic feats, any chakra is potentially available, though it's not cheap. If you don't spend your epic feats on Martial Study, the highest-level maneuver you can get is 5th.

Maneuver-wise, Stone Dragon is the obvious choice, but I'm not sure the effects are worth the prerequisite maneuvers.

Soulmeld-wise, Mauling Gauntlets may be nice. I'd also consider adding the Therapeutic Mantle + Martial Spirit combination on top, but that requires essentia, and you can't get that much. Totem Avatar will get you extra damage on natural attacks, Wormtail Belt will get you Awesome Blow without the prerequisites, but also with a really low save DC (10 or 15, depending on whether you can add your con modifier to the total).


So, how about:

Open Least Chakra (hands) and Shape Soulmeld (mauling gauntlets). +2 morale bonus on strength checks (but not skill checks), unarmed strike damage rolls, and the benefit of IUS. Also +1 insight on Climb/Swim, for what it's worth. You don't qualify for SUS, so if you're taking IUS anyway, the chakra bind probably isn't that good, and you're left with +2 on strength checks, also not super.
Open Lesser Chakra (shoulders) and Shape Soulmeld (totem avatar). +12 hp, natural weapons deal damage as one size larger, +1 insight on reflex saves.
Shape Soulmeld (therapeutic mantle) + Bonus Essentia + Martial Study (Counter Charge?) + Martial Study (Comet Throw?) + Martial Stance (martial spirit). Heal 6 (or 7) hp every time you hit something - includes touch attacks for bull rush/trip. Note: you don't qualify for the Fast Healing epic feat.
Toughness + Roll With It (x6) + Damage Reduction (x2). DR 28/–. Yeah.


Just a few options to consider. You can have the first three all at once, giving you a full attack of: Unarmed strike +27/+22/+17/+12 (1d6+13, avg. 16.5, and 6 hp healed) and two slams +22 (4d8+7, avg. 25, and 6 hp healed). Note: if you're attacking only once, don't use the unarmed strikes. Reassigning essentia to mauling gauntlets can get you an extra 4 points of damage per US, at the cost of 4 less healing per attack, which should be pretty good for the start of a fight especially. Dig into the ground with Earth Glide, and pound the first thing to walk into range.

For a creature that's supposed to be CR 11, it's an okay bruiser. 240 hp with DR 16/–, 116 or 132 damage full attack which also heals for 36 or 12 damage, a few fun maneuvers (a way to survive the barbarian's charge and then toss them into the wizard), +39 on trip/bull rush (43 with essentia), and absolutely no defence against magic.

[SangoProduction]

So, yeah. Sunder is unfun to use. It's a waste of an action.

Also, how is the Earth Elemental healing? I don't get that part.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Also, how is the Earth Elemental healing? I don't get that part.
Martial Spirit is a first-level Devoted Spirit stance.

While you are in this stance, you or an ally within 30 feet heals 2 points of damage each time you make a successful melee attack.

Therapeutic Mantle is a soulmeld.

Whenever you are the target of a spell or effect that heals hit point damage, the spell heals additional damage equal to its spell level. [...]
Essentia: Every point of essentia invested increases the additional healing by 2 more hit points.

The spell level of Martial Spirit is a bit unclear. I'd houserule it's 1, but by RAW, I think it's undefined. However, you can simply invest 2 essentia (from Bonus Essentia), and turn that 2 points of healing into 6.

[SangoProduction]

Martial Spirit is a first-level Devoted Spirit stance.


Therapeutic Mantle is a soulmeld.


The spell level of Martial Spirit is a bit unclear. I'd houserule it's 1, but by RAW, I think it's undefined. However, you can simply invest 2 essentia (from Bonus Essentia), and turn that 2 points of healing into 6.

Ah. OK. That makes sense.

[SangoProduction]

I found Beast Strike (DR355 p76), which adds Slam damage to Unarmed damage. That seems pretty beastly.