How Do You Summon High CR Outsiders?

[Madokar]

Going over the rules for both Planar Ally and Planar Binding, the Greater versions of both spells only allow for a single Outsider with an HD total of 18, or three Outsiders whose total HD combined does not exceed 18.

But what if you want to throw something heavy at the group? What if, as a GM, you want an enemy to summon a Balor (which has an HD of 20), or give the group the option to summon a Solar Angel (HD 22)? How do you pull that off?

[Septimus]

Gate is usually the way to go, but you can be more creative with feats and class features that increase the HD cap of the planar binding/ally line.
Also, you can simply plane shift to their home plan and ask them to come with you on your way back.

[Florian]

How do you pull that off?

It´s easier for the bad guys than for good ones.
- Blackfire adepts can raise the cap on ally/binding for up to three outsider races by +2HD.
- Augmented Calling can raise the cap for the chosen race by +2HD.
- a Calling Token can raise the cap to summon a specific outsider by +2HD.
- Then, naturally you can use Gate or, for extra cheese, Plane Shift somewhere and diplomacy something into helping.

[Shadowquad]

a Calling Token can raise the cap to summon a specific outsider by +2HD.


What is a Calling Token precisely, and what book does it come from ? My google-fu failed me, I'm afraid.

[Florian]

What is a Calling Token precisely, and what book does it come from ? My google-fu failed me, I'm afraid.

My bad. It´s "Caller´s Feather".

[Shadowquad]

My bad. It´s "Caller´s Feather".

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that item. Additionally, you can take the Spell Perfection Feat in addition to Augment Calling to add another +2HD.

[Florian]

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that item. Additionally, you can take the Spell Perfection Feat in addition to Augment Calling to add another +2HD.

Ever notices that the real high tier of outsiders (Like Empyreal Angel) now come with immunity to calling/binding?

Using a calling-focused build, you will end up having Spell Perfection up to three times, as it gets increasingly important to beat SR along with the increased cap and pushing Magic Circle and Dimensional Anchor to their limits means Spell Penetration, Piercing Spell (MM) and Tenacious Spell (MM). As usual, these get doubled too.

(I started writing a guide on Calling spells some time back, but never managed to polish it up and publish it).

[Psyren]

Another way is to use Incantations or Rituals, particularly for bad guys that are substantially weaker than the thing they are trying to enlist. This is a good way of making the binding itself (specifically stopping it) be the adventure, rather than just another monster encounter. For example, the Fires of Dis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm#firesofDis) incantation from 3.5 lets the caster call a Pit Fiend, and do so much earlier than they could typically be called, but with very few of the usual benefits that calling a Pit Fiend would entail.

[dude123nice]

Ever notices that the real high tier of outsiders (Like Empyreal Angel) now come with immunity to calling/binding?

Using a calling-focused build, you will end up having Spell Perfection up to three times, as it gets increasingly important to beat SR along with the increased cap and pushing Magic Circle and Dimensional Anchor to their limits means Spell Penetration, Piercing Spell (MM) and Tenacious Spell (MM). As usual, these get doubled too.

(I started writing a guide on Calling spells some time back, but never managed to polish it up and publish it).
Given that Spell Perfection doesn't mention that you can take it multiple times, I'm pretty sure you are only allowed to take it once.

[Florian]

Given that Spell Perfection doesn't mention that you can take it multiple times, I'm pretty sure you are only allowed to take it once.

Then I´m pretty sure most staple cleric and wizard guides would need an update, as taking it multiple times is a standard recommendation.

[Urpriest]

Does using plane shift twice not work for this in PF? It won't get you a loyal minion, but from a DM's point of view you can come up with other reasons why the Balor wants to be there than direct magical control.

[Florian]

Does using plane shift twice not work for this in PF? It won't get you a loyal minion, but from a DM's point of view you can come up with other reasons why the Balor wants to be there than direct magical control.

There´s a sister thread over at Paizo with a bit more details. Basically it´s a rookie gm asking about rules-legal ways that the BBEG can have a Balor and the players pull out a Solar to counter it, all within the boundaries of RAW.

[Slithery D]

Then I´m pretty sure most staple cleric and wizard guides would need an update, as taking it multiple times is a standard recommendation.

I'd go farther and say you should heavily discount all advice in those guides, as they've demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding of feat rules that casts all of their other advice in doubt.

[dude123nice]

Then I´m pretty sure most staple cleric and wizard guides would need an update, as taking it multiple times is a standard recommendation.

Absolutely ANY feat that can be taken multiple times says so. Is there ANY written source, online source, errata or comments from the writers or from Paizo staff that states that this feat can be taken multiple times? Because it's fairly easy for programmers to willfully ignore rules or to misinterpret them, just like how many people thought you could take both crossblooded and wildblooded sorcerer archetypes at the same time, among other things.

EDIT: I've also taken a look at all the Wizard guides listed at http://zenithgames.blogspot.ro/2012/11/the-comprehensive-pathfinder-guides.html and I couldn't find a single one which explicitly mentioned taking spell perfection more than once, or had it taken more than once on an example build. Please correct me if I am wrong.