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Aliquid
2017-06-20, 04:50 PM
I was thinking of a "low magic" game world without traditional spellcasters, but a "Alchemist/Apothecary" class would exist.

Someone who can use herbs etc to make potions and salves, poisons etc, or use chemicals to make other "magical" concoctions. As this character class goes up levels, he/she gets to add more powerful recipes to his/her repertoire.

There is a problem that I get stuck with. From an in-game perspective, why wouldn't any intelligent creature be able to just take the recipe book and recreate any of the potions themselves... by simply following the recipe.

Possible reasons:

The recipes require extreme precision, and it takes a skilled hand to make the measurements just right
The recipes are more of an art than a science. You mix the ingredients until you get the exact right consistency/color/smell, etc. The quantity of each ingredient may vary a bit each time, and only a trained person would know how to tweak the ingredients to get the right result.
The character has to draw or summon some sort of magic and channel it into the potion. Not my preference for a low magic world


Any other ideas?

Vitruviansquid
2017-06-20, 05:07 PM
The extreme precision requirement seems pretty realistic to me.

If you're not at all familiar with chemistry, think about some of the harder maneuvers in cooking that people sometimes can't even do with a recipe.

Honest Tiefling
2017-06-20, 05:17 PM
There is a problem that I get stuck with. From an in-game perspective, why wouldn't any intelligent creature be able to just take the recipe book and recreate any of the potions themselves... by simply following the recipe.

1) Google cake wrecks. Now imagine all of the ways people have messed up cakes (burning it, putting in the wrong ingredients, using expired mix, not realizing the different types of flour, etc.) That's a cake. If people can mess up that, they can mess up a lot of things.

2) There might be more to it then following a recipe. Getting a good extract is more then just hearing the directions, you need to know how hot is too hot, how to crush herbs correctly, how to recongize the oils, how to properly butcher animal bits, etc. Think of it this way, any one of us could watch a you tube tutorial on blacksmithing, but without that experience and expertise we're more likely to set ourselves on fire then to actually forge a fancy sword. We're not dumb, (well, I hope not) but most people can't learn that easily and need experience.

3) Also, species names in a medieval setting wouldn't be accurate. Scientific names had to be made up because there are several billion types of 'lily'. So a skilled alchemist needs to know how to identify WHICH stupid snowdrop plant is useful and which one will kill you. Also, they would likely know when to harvest it (and if there is a magical element, how to, such as harvesting it by the light of the half-moon with a silver sickle). They'd also know when the herb is useful, such as identifying older, expired herbs that are no longer potent.

4) Finding or growing the herbs. The latter probably won't be an issue with player characters, but foraging might be right up their alley. I wouldn't expect you to be able to take a tailor from a city and to plunk them down into a forest and be able to get magical herbs out of the process. If there is a magical element to harvesting or preserving herbs, then normal peasants wouldn't have the knowledge, materials or time to gather them.

FreddyNoNose
2017-06-20, 05:26 PM
I was thinking of a "low magic" game world without traditional spellcasters, but a "Alchemist/Apothecary" class would exist.

Someone who can use herbs etc to make potions and salves, poisons etc, or use chemicals to make other "magical" concoctions. As this character class goes up levels, he/she gets to add more powerful recipes to his/her repertoire.

There is a problem that I get stuck with. From an in-game perspective, why wouldn't any intelligent creature be able to just take the recipe book and recreate any of the potions themselves... by simply following the recipe.

Possible reasons:

The recipes require extreme precision, and it takes a skilled hand to make the measurements just right
The recipes are more of an art than a science. You mix the ingredients until you get the exact right consistency/color/smell, etc. The quantity of each ingredient may vary a bit each time, and only a trained person would know how to tweak the ingredients to get the right result.
The character has to draw or summon some sort of magic and channel it into the potion. Not my preference for a low magic world


Any other ideas?

C&S had them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry_%26_Sorcery

Berenger
2017-06-20, 05:27 PM
From an in-game perspective, why wouldn't any intelligent creature be able to just take the recipe book and recreate any of the potions themselves... by simply following the recipe.

The average intelligent creature would be hard-pressed to take a recipe book and recreate a passable sauce béarnaise.

Anonymouswizard
2017-06-20, 06:04 PM
First off, most of my have works are similar (traditional wizards exist but are relatively weak, there's no such thing as divine magic*). So while there is such a thing as magical healing floating around most people will either use herbs supplied by an apothecary (which yes, anybody can use if they have the book, it's what the standard healingskill represents), or potentially alchemical potions (generally for more dangerous diseases or in the midge of battle). Most people either have an idea what herbs will still pain or know someone who does, apothecaries will mix herbs for more serious problems (including very basic antiseptics) and sell basic healing supplies. Most are also doctors, although not all are and not all doctors are apothecaries.

Alchemy is difficult, requiring equipment made to precise standards and a lot of careful work to avoid something poisonous or explosive (or both). However when it's done right it creates results more reliable than what you could get from an apothecary. It's also used to identify materials and substances, which requires less precise instruments but is still more difficult than cooking a cake.

Then there's the potions people share and pass down through families that they think work but don't, you can't always trust that the barmaid won't get pregnant (so keep an eye on the bard). Generally more common in the countryside but every city will have a few circling.

Then, of course, there are surgeons. I tend to have proper medical surgeons rather than barber-surgeons due to using a higher tech level than most (16th-18th century), but even then operations can be risky of the correct alchemical help isn't available.

* Priestly casters use the same magic as infernal warlocks, anybody can learn breaking but it's either limited to an hour after damage was inflicted (standard Savage Worlds limitation) or extremely expensive.

Cluedrew
2017-06-20, 06:23 PM
Ironically, many types of "high" magic should have this problem, but people tend to forget that. But on topic:

1 & 2 seem like a solution in and of themselves. Many steps require things to be just so (1: precision) and the process to get there is not exact, so the apothecary has to be constantly correcting for the (things like) quality of the ingredients (2: art).

You can expand this as well because of the medieval setting, so the tools are also inexact. It is hard to get a fire to exactly the right temperature, and you might not even have a thermometer to check if it is. And forget sterilization, there will be contamination and the apothecary might have to correct for that, even if they don't realize know what was the source of the problem.

And let us not forget, there are issues of diagnosis and dosage to worry about. What potion would you prepare if the Half-Orc's sword wound is not has started to go all pins and needles? I don't know if you whole different species you are going to have to treat, but it will not make medicine any simpler. Even without that, think about the schooling real doctors need, its not just reading a book.

LibraryOgre
2017-06-20, 06:57 PM
Equipment. You need certain implements to do this properly. This somewhat falls into the precision category, but it can go beyond needing the proper measuring spoons. Even if you don't need actual magic, some of the tools necessary might be rare or difficult to acquire.

My first thought is in the Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, he gets especially good results by crushing a certain ingredient with a silver knife... not only would not everyone have a silver knife, only someone who has a knack for alchemy would think to do something outside of the instruction book.

My second thought also hearkens to Skyrim... while anyone can mix up a couple of potions (if they have an alchemy table... back to the necessary equipment), or even eat ingredients to get minor effects, only those with a real knack for it (i.e. various perks) can make a truly powerful potion. Blue Mountain Flower and Wheat in ANYONE's hand makes a potent combat healing potion... but if you put it in the hands of someone who has really trained in alchemy (high score+lots of perks), you get an even better result.

So, you might have the alchemist class also get certain benefits as they level up. If alchemy is a skill anyone can learn, then maybe they get inherent bonuses with that skill. Maybe they get bonuses to certain effects ("an experienced alchemist can create more potent healing salves, adding +1 to the salve for every five levels"), or a cost decrease, or speed bonuses, or can pick things off a menu (THIS time I want to be able to make the healing potions fast, NEXT time I might want to make them cheap or powerful).

Anonymouswizard
2017-06-20, 07:17 PM
Assuming in addition to classes and skills you also have feats or something similar you have three vectors for retiring training:
-skill points represents pure skill. It's your ability to make what you know our follow the recipes.
-class features are what every trained alchemist knows, e.g. how to miscreate any potion to make it explosive, how to increases a potion's effectiveness, ect. Not all of these should be directly related to alchemy.
-feats are specialised training (how to make the big booms) or more out there stuff (weirder potions, reversing potions, and so on). Since of it can be learned by anyone, some needs actual alchemist training.

In general though 'is hard and requires decent and potentially restricted equipment' is a good justification. You might as well ask why people can't get the book and make their own hydrochloric acid (I assume most people can't make that at home at least).

Cluedrew
2017-06-20, 07:47 PM
I would avoid leaning to much on the equipment. While being part of the solution makes sense, if it is the whole explanation than it becomes an external thing as opposed to internal things like most other skills. Plus they might become to vulnerable to 'jailbreak' scenarios where you don't have proper equipment. For some of the powerful stuff that might be fine, but they should be able to maintain a baseline with odds and ends.

Or course, go for whatever your exact design goal is, maybe them needing more time and equipment is fine.

Psikerlord
2017-06-20, 07:58 PM
I think 1 & 2 are all you need. The creator needs to be highly skilled, the precise amounts, their order and timing, are finely balanced, and some "on the fly" adjustments are always required, depending on the quality of the ingredients, the humidity, etc... This might apply to not only the creation of the item, but also when using it - perhaps the items is only effective when applied to a particular area, or at a precise dose which varies according to subject weight, or must be adjusted for body temperature or a host of other things.

I dont think you need anything more than this to explain why (i) these mundane, but valuable, items are rare and (ii) even if you can get your hands on one, you wont necessarily be able to use it properly.

Aliquid
2017-06-20, 08:18 PM
- perhaps the items is only effective when applied to a particular area, or at a precise dose which varies according to subject weight, or must be adjusted for body temperature or a host of other things. Yes, requiring skill to use the items is important too, not just to make them... otherwise other characters could just buy the stuff pre-made by some guy in a store and not need this apothecary character at all.

-edit-

oh, and a short "shelf life" for the products would make a difference too. That way you can't just buy pre-made products and carry them around until they are needed.

Honest Tiefling
2017-06-20, 08:22 PM
Now that I think about it, how many people here could actually get aspirin from willow bark without setting something or someone on fire? Or poisoning someone? And this setting presumably does not have google...

NichG
2017-06-20, 08:23 PM
I could imagine there being quite a number of 'standardized' concoctions that anyone with a bit of practice could eventually manage to use, but with the actual interesting stuff being done more on the fly in response to particular factors and considerations associated with the current situation. Being able to adapt to those changes to get the precise effect that the alchemist wants would require a deeper understanding than just an ingredient list. This also paves the way for the system to be a lot more flexible than just a recipe list. Want to trade off strength of effect and duration? Want to combine effects? Want to find a way to aerosolize a potion into an area of effect? Sure, go ahead!

But even without the intentional customization, there's likely to be mandatory customization just to get a consistent result. For example, even with modern farming practices the quality of ingredients you get for cooking often varies wildly. Sometimes a bell pepper will be fresh and crisp and appropriate for use in a salad; other times, it may be a bit softer but still okay for a stir fry since it's going to get soft anyhow; other times, the only thing left for it is to grill it and puree into a sauce. If you're making candy, the room temperature and humidity can be the difference between a crunchy result and a chewy, sticky result. Don't even get started on chocolate, which requires holding the temperature of the mixture to within a few degrees C for ten minutes while crystals of the right type form - a temperature which changes based on the ratios of fats to solids to add-ins used in the particular kind of chocolate you're working with.

Or in medicine, anyone can just buy and consume over the counter medicine because it's weak enough that all the variable factors are pretty unlikely to kill you - but you might end up with a dose too small to do any good either. On the other hand, if you used the same approach to the general anaesthesia used in surgery of just using the same dosage and mixture on every patient without adjustment, you'd probably kill a third of them and have a third wake up during the operation since the effect you're going for really rides a dangerous edge between knocking someone out deeply and shutting down their respiration.

So for a professional alchemist in a fantasy setting, depending on the recent weather, how the season has been going, the soil quality, and the particulars of a given patch, a medicinal herb may require significant alterations to its inclusion in a recipe; not to mention if the intended recipient needs a dosage customized to their body weight, species (no, you're a dwarf, you're just going to quickly metabolize the active components of moon-harvested woolwort if you take the potion meant for a human. We have to add Gorin's root extract to lower your liver function temporarily so that the medicine can take effect - better not go drinking for a few hours after this). If you're making a potion to suppress the sniffles, you probably can be pretty haphazard about things, but if you're making a potion to bring back the dead it's likely going to be a custom job every time.

Aliquid
2017-06-20, 11:55 PM
Thanks everyone, this all really helps

Anonymouswizard
2017-06-21, 01:49 AM
Now that I think about it, how many people here could actually get aspirin from willow bark without setting something or someone on fire? Or poisoning someone? And this setting presumably does not have google...

If I had the recipe? 50/50 chance. I'm competent enough at cooking that I could probably do most of the steps, and good at following recipes, but I'm not certain if I could make it 100% safe to use.

Joe the Rat
2017-06-21, 08:06 AM
1) Google cake wrecks. Now imagine all of the ways people have messed up cakes (burning it, putting in the wrong ingredients, using expired mix, not realizing the different types of flour, etc.) That's a cake. If people can mess up that, they can mess up a lot of things.


The average intelligent creature would be hard-pressed to take a recipe book and recreate a passable sauce béarnaise.


I would avoid leaning to much on the equipment. While being part of the solution makes sense, if it is the whole explanation than it becomes an external thing as opposed to internal things like most other skills. Plus they might become to vulnerable to 'jailbreak' scenarios where you don't have proper equipment. For some of the powerful stuff that might be fine, but they should be able to maintain a baseline with odds and ends.

Or course, go for whatever your exact design goal is, maybe them needing more time and equipment is fine.

In essence, alchemy is a hell of a lot like cooking. And cooking is applied organic chemistry. There is a HELL of a lot of skill and knowledge involved. There may be some basic things anyone could do with a recipe. But the more potent the effect, the more convoluted and precise the requirements, and the easier it is to screw up. Go separate some eggs.

But look at recipes. Dashes and pinches. Folding. Clarifying and browning. al dente. medium-low heat. Hard crack. Until done? Recipes are lists of ingredients and instructions, and will often assume you know the technical terminology, procedures, or identifying states behind it.
If you want to reduce the importance of proper equipment, that doubles the need for knowledge and experience. Measuring your ingredients by hand or eye - as in pouring something in the palm of your hand, or dropping into an ungraduated container and knowing how much is there. Knowing what substitutions you can make for missing ingredients.

Aliquid
2017-06-21, 09:41 AM
OK... sticking with the cooking analogy

Baking something like a light and fluffy biscuit (American biscuit, not UK). If you want it to be light and fluffy, you have to knead the dough just the right amount. Too much, and the end result will be a dense puck... Also, you have to cut the butter in just right. Don't break the pieces too small or too big. etc.
BUT there are lots of levels between "light and fluffy" and "dense puck". There isn't some hard cut-off that showed you have failed at making a good biscuit. You can make a crappy one, an ok one, a good one, a great one... and so on.

So should potion making be the same? Say that you are making a "healing potion". Should it be a roll against a skill, and the higher the roll is above a success, the more potent the potion?

NichG
2017-06-21, 10:19 AM
I'd advise against rolls during a crafting procedure, it means that player is going to have to interrupt the flow of the game to do a bunch of rolls in order to actually be able to use their abilities, and the individual successes or failures don't really matter too much.

It'd be better to give a bunch of class abilities that let the player modify the effects of a potion in a positive way, such that without those abilities the result is anywhere from mediocre to dangerous, but with the class abilities you can get a much better product. So e.g. maybe really good potions have some really awful side-effects by default, but there's a class ability to remove some number of levels of side-effect. So your amateur alchemist could make an uber-buff potion that gives huge bonuses to speed, but it would come with a 75% reduction in MaxHP and a -5 to all die rolls. The medium-level alchemist can drop either the MaxHP reduction or the penalty to rolls. The high-level alchemist can drop both. Or perhaps the amateur alchemist can just get a small boost to speed, but the master can multiply the effects of their potions by 10, making it a really huge boost.

Anonymouswizard
2017-06-21, 11:41 AM
I'd advise against rolls during a crafting procedure, it means that player is going to have to interrupt the flow of the game to do a bunch of rolls in order to actually be able to use their abilities, and the individual successes or failures don't really matter too much.

It depends, one roll creating can work really well (plus maybe a tool for designing something). A failure means it didn't work, a success means you got the basic thing, beating the DC by five means you made a good potion/sword/ray gun, beat it by ten you get a great one, will at the end of the process.

Now, for some it makes sense to let the player retry, but I limit each project to one per session.

So here maybe it's a DC 10-15 roll to make a portion, getting a good option gives +2 to a variable, getting a great option gives a +5.

However, I realise that this is personal opinion :smallsmile:


It'd be better to give a bunch of class abilities that let the player modify the effects of a potion in a positive way, such that without those abilities the result is anywhere from mediocre to dangerous, but with the class abilities you can get a much better product. So e.g. maybe really good potions have some really awful side-effects by default, but there's a class ability to remove some number of levels of side-effect. So your amateur alchemist could make an uber-buff potion that gives huge bonuses to speed, but it would come with a 75% reduction in MaxHP and a -5 to all die rolls. The medium-level alchemist can drop either the MaxHP reduction or the penalty to rolls. The high-level alchemist can drop both. Or perhaps the amateur alchemist can just get a small boost to speed, but the master can multiply the effects of their potions by 10, making it a really huge boost.

Oh, I totally agree with all this a well. I just tend to think from a classless perspective (because, as Munchkin would say, I'm a level 1 human with no class).

NichG
2017-06-21, 12:32 PM
It depends, one roll creating can work really well (plus maybe a tool for designing something). A failure means it didn't work, a success means you got the basic thing, beating the DC by five means you made a good potion/sword/ray gun, beat it by ten you get a great one, will at the end of the process.

Now, for some it makes sense to let the player retry, but I limit each project to one per session.

So here maybe it's a DC 10-15 roll to make a portion, getting a good option gives +2 to a variable, getting a great option gives a +5.

However, I realise that this is personal opinion :smallsmile:


I'm playing an alchemist in an Elder Scrolls RPG campaign right now - its one roll per potion or enchanted item. But it's still jarring when the other players are chatting with people in town in preparation for going out on an expedition, and I have to interject with 'okay DM, I'm rolling for making my potions now; okay party, I'm going to make our potions now and I'll let you know how much money/time that takes, is that okay?'. At which point the DM and other players say 'uh yeah sure' and I disconnect from what's going on as I spend a few minutes mucking around with an online dice roller to do batch rolls. And that depends on the DM being okay with me just doing that, and me realizing that it's disruptive for me to pull people away from the actual game just to do pro-forma rolls. In other words, I'd expect it's normally a lot worse.

In the end, the rolls don't really add anything to the game.

Honest Tiefling
2017-06-21, 12:48 PM
I'd advise against rolls during a crafting procedure, it means that player is going to have to interrupt the flow of the game to do a bunch of rolls in order to actually be able to use their abilities, and the individual successes or failures don't really matter too much.

I sorta agree with this, and I sorta don't.

Firstly, the alchemist MUST have some abilities that don't require a skill check for day to day use. It won't be fun for the Alchemist if they roll badly on everything and then basically have to sit in the corner of combat, and it won't be fun for the party if the Alchemist can trounce everything. So the character will likely need a small stable of abilities of basic recipes.

Advanced recipes...I think it might be appropriate for this setting if more complicated things did in fact require a roll, provided that the alchemist has either improper equipment or an extreme time constraint. Trying to make some potions in the field with limited access to clean water before the tax collector and his entourage arrives? Yeah, that sounds appropriate. I'd find some way to waive the skill roll if they have a week and access to a good laboratory.

Perhaps have players agree to a gentlemen's agreement to adhere to a rough guideline of how much stuff they can make to keep it sane.

Aliquid
2017-06-21, 02:17 PM
I sorta agree with this, and I sorta don't.

Firstly, the alchemist MUST have some abilities that don't require a skill check for day to day use. It won't be fun for the Alchemist if they roll badly on everything and then basically have to sit in the corner of combat, and it won't be fun for the party if the Alchemist can trounce everything. So the character will likely need a small stable of abilities of basic recipes.

Advanced recipes...I think it might be appropriate for this setting if more complicated things did in fact require a roll, provided that the alchemist has either improper equipment or an extreme time constraint. Trying to make some potions in the field with limited access to clean water before the tax collector and his entourage arrives? Yeah, that sounds appropriate. I'd find some way to waive the skill roll if they have a week and access to a good laboratory.

Perhaps have players agree to a gentlemen's agreement to adhere to a rough guideline of how much stuff they can make to keep it sane.I won't be using D&D, but to make the discussion easier, I can use 3.5 rules as a rough guide for examples.

So with your comments above, the player could "take 10" on their roll in some circumstances, and "take 20" when they have lots of time, but have to roll if they are in combat.

That way, there will always be some basic concoctions they can pull off with a '10', and as they level, those basic concoctions get better.

Vogie
2017-06-21, 03:41 PM
I sorta agree with this, and I sorta don't.

Firstly, the alchemist MUST have some abilities that don't require a skill check for day to day use. It won't be fun for the Alchemist if they roll badly on everything and then basically have to sit in the corner of combat, and it won't be fun for the party if the Alchemist can trounce everything. So the character will likely need a small stable of abilities of basic recipes.

Advanced recipes...I think it might be appropriate for this setting if more complicated things did in fact require a roll, provided that the alchemist has either improper equipment or an extreme time constraint. Trying to make some potions in the field with limited access to clean water before the tax collector and his entourage arrives? Yeah, that sounds appropriate. I'd find some way to waive the skill roll if they have a week and access to a good laboratory.

Perhaps have players agree to a gentlemen's agreement to adhere to a rough guideline of how much stuff they can make to keep it sane.

Maybe a combination of spontaneous and prepared.

You can prep up some basic stuff in the morning, which can last through the day. A certain number of potions/products and the like. They can also prepare things on the fly, which requires rolls or taking 20, and better equipment leads to easier rolls. You could also limit the ability of spontaneous casting (Mixing?) to things of similar or adjacent types. For example, a transmutation effect can only be mixed into another transmutation effect; or, a conjuration effect could be mixed to a lower illusion/transmutation effect, but none of the other specializations.

Also, as you hinted at, anyone can make this stuff - the class just makes it simpler. Perhaps a non-Apothecary can make the basics, the alchemical equivalent of scrambled eggs and boiled potatoes, but it takes a while as they fumble through it. What the Alch-othecary can do is:

do things faster
use less materials
Make shelf-stable products that can be sold
Experiment with the recipes to increase things like expiration time, effectiveness, stability, or lower the DC checks in the future for that thing.
Alter their products on the fly - Looks like this "healing" potion needs to be a "remove poison", can I figure out how to do that before Bob dies?
Make their products more niche - increased effectiveness on halflings, additional damage to goblins, % chance to not consume when applied to oneself, % chance of side effect (increase or decrease)

Anonymouswizard
2017-06-21, 04:59 PM
I'm playing an alchemist in an Elder Scrolls RPG campaign right now - its one roll per potion or enchanted item. But it's still jarring when the other players are chatting with people in town in preparation for going out on an expedition, and I have to interject with 'okay DM, I'm rolling for making my potions now; okay party, I'm going to make our potions now and I'll let you know how much money/time that takes, is that okay?'. At which point the DM and other players say 'uh yeah sure' and I disconnect from what's going on as I spend a few minutes mucking around with an online dice roller to do batch rolls. And that depends on the DM being okay with me just doing that, and me realizing that it's disruptive for me to pull people away from the actual game just to do pro-forma rolls. In other words, I'd expect it's normally a lot worse.

In the end, the rolls don't really add anything to the game.

Sure, but in this case if either call for one roll per type of potion or allow taking ten. Likely the latter because it allows you to make a lot of potions.

Heck, you can take ten for only a x2 time increase in most of my games for building consumables or minor items (generally those below a certain DC). This allows a character to know what they can easily make and churn out decent potions with just time and money, while requiring rolling for really good stuff.

The only time I wouldn't allow taking ten was of this is also prototype (so new to the campaign world and you haven't worked out the kinks). To me this is what creating systems should be for, adding new cool stuff.

Batch rolls are also useful. You're making 30 potions of bull's strength at once? It makes sense they'd all come out similar.

Mendicant
2017-06-21, 10:35 PM
What's the tech level of this setting? If books aren't cheap and ubiquitous there's not much reason to expect there'd be a recipe book to even go to. Every would-be alchemist or apothecary would be recreating the wheel outside of whatever local tradition there is. A lot of really valuable herblore might only be passed down orally by the illiterate villagers who live near such and such marsh or known only by a brilliant, irascible hedgewitch who only shares he knowledge with those who have equal knowledge to trade.

If travel is difficult and dangerous, what books there are could be incomplete, contradictory, or 75% hot garbage.

A clever and well-travelled apothecary (like, I don't know, an adventurer) might even be the one who finally synthesizes all these scattered pieces of knowledge and advances the craft for everyone.

Aliquid
2017-06-21, 11:30 PM
What's the tech level of this setting? If books aren't cheap and ubiquitous there's not much reason to expect there'd be a recipe book to even go to. Every would-be alchemist or apothecary would be recreating the wheel outside of whatever local tradition there is. A lot of really valuable herblore might only be passed down orally by the illiterate villagers who live near such and such marsh or known only by a brilliant, irascible hedgewitch who only shares he knowledge with those who have equal knowledge to trade.

If travel is difficult and dangerous, what books there are could be incomplete, contradictory, or 75% hot garbage.

A clever and well-travelled apothecary (like, I don't know, an adventurer) might even be the one who finally synthesizes all these scattered pieces of knowledge and advances the craft for everyone.I hadn't put too much thought into the tech level, so yes books could be hard to come by, and literacy could be rare. That would add to the story and the adventure. But many of the other factors suggested above would still have to be in place... to explain why this adventurer couldn't quickly teach his new found skills to his the other people in his adventuring party.

goto124
2017-06-22, 02:17 AM
to explain why this adventurer couldn't quickly teach his new found skills to his the other people in his adventuring party.

Would your players be interested in RPing out the magic equivalent of a cooking class disaster?

"No, no! You're stirring the pot too fas-"

boom

What the alchemist could do however, is to teach the most basic of potions or herb use. Knowing how to cook eggs is already a nice bit of help.

Spore
2017-06-22, 05:26 PM
I barely passed my chemistry labs. Compared to a grad student who were comparing their purity and quantity of products I was busy making sure my lab equipment wasn't exploding and/or burning. Also the difference in speed is astounding. The professor's assistent for demonstration experiments built his apparatus in a matter of minutes where I needed at least half an hour to 45 minutes to make sure everything is airtight.

RobD
2017-06-23, 07:46 AM
I would also keep in mind that it may also be difficult to find recipes; if your world is pre-printing press, there aren't going to be a lot of books on the subject, so just knowing a good handful of useful concoctions become a rare and valuable skill.
Just saw that someone had the same thought a few posts earlier, woops.