Stupidly hilarious things in canon

[danielxcutter]

I started a thread about funny things in 3.5 canon a while ago; this thread is for entries that are stupid funny.

Here's my entry: Obligatum VII, who's mission TvTropes explains even better than I could:


Elder Evils, a book from the 3.5 edition of Dungeons & Dragons, features a canonical example of a Lawful Stupid inevitable in the form of Obligatum VII, a kolyarut (an inevitable who enforces contracts) who wants to free an unstoppable Eldritch Abomination named Pandorym. Is it because Obligatum is a Omnicidal Maniac? No, it's actually because the wizards who imprisoned Pandorym in the first place broke a contract with said Abomination by imprisoning it. Oh, and that "VII" in Obligatum's name? He's the seventh inevitable in the Obligatum series. If the party saves the universe by destroying it, Mechanus will just send another one, because enforcing that contract is more important than their own divine existences.

(Bold is mine.)

The real kicker, though? Is just below that.


Other Inevitables cleave very close to this trope on occasion. There's even one Inevitable that will kill you for living too long, should you do so by unnatural or extreme means (such as becoming a lich or sacrificing many other lives for your own protection). Ironically, there's an Inevitable caste whose mission is to protect the existing divine pantheons — which means that Obligatum should be coming under fire from a member of this much stronger caste.

(Again, bold is mine.)

For some reason, that was hilarious for me. What are your favorites?

[Jormengand]

Even worse, IIRC Obligatum's sword can't actually damage the elder evil's prison, so sending him (it?) was a big waste of time anyway.

[Scots Dragon]

Even worse, IIRC Obligatum's sword can't actually damage the elder evil's prison, so sending him (it?) was a big waste of time anyway.

Sometimes in a bureaucracy, the important thing isn't actually doing something but to be seen to be doing something.

[Waker]

Demogorgon, one of the more recognized demon princes, possesses two heads. Each of these heads houses a separate intellect and personality, but the problem is that they hate each other. So much so that they spent time plotting against the other and seek out ways to get rid of the other without killing themselves.
If you were curious, the names are Aameul and Hethradiah.

[Gildedragon]

I can think a few stupid things (Pact Primeval for example) but funny stupid...
Hmmm

Grisgols:
Imagine your average lich. Paranoid and evil. Not only did they get defeated, their phylactery was found... And the item crafter, instead of doing the smart thing and breaking it thought "You know what... I think this would be excellent for making a junk golem" not a stone golem, or an iron one... One made from used up wands, botched potions, ink-stained scrolls etc.
Who even thinks like that.

[The Viscount]

To make it even stranger, destroying the Grisgol does not destroy the phylactery, and the lich's spirit animating the Grisgol is now free to return. I suppose it could be used to trap a lich who used the spell to split phylacteries without finding them all, but that seems a rare thing and a poor way of dealing with it.

Dwarven Urgroshes are so named because dwarves treat them as martial weapons so will likely be proficient with them, same for gnome hooked hammers. This is not true for the Orc Double Axe, which is exotic even for orcs. Either it's a mystery even to them, or it's a perpetuated stereotype that orcs use it.

One thing I always found funny is the strange handling of Gruumsh. It's accepted in lore that Gruumsh once fought with Corellon Larethian and in the conflict lost his eye. However, it is maintained in most churches that revere Gruumsh that this is a lie constructed by the elves and that Gruumsh is a cyclops who has always had one eye. But then the Eye of Gruumsh PrC specifically requires that you put out your right eye, and you function as Gruumsh's missing left eye. So it's weird and unclear.

The kuo-toa are a race of murderous fish-people. Or maybe frog-people, depending on the description and art. Regardless, they worship Blibdoolpoolp (yes that is her real name), a strange and reclusive deity worshipped pretty much only by them. So she of course is depicted as a human woman with a lobster for a head.

If we're talking stupid inevitables, then we gotta talk about the Marut. Made to track down those who unfairly extend their lifespan, its understood to be the thing to kill liches. Too bad it can barely do anything against liches. Its default attack is 2 slams dealing a healthy 2d6+12 damage. Liches have DR 15 bludgeoning and magic, so average damage is about 4 per hit, maximum of 9 per hit. They took the time to tell us that the marut's slams are Lawful for overcoming DR (DR /Lawful is something about 2 monsters have: rilmani and slaadi, I'd love to hear any others) but not to make them magic. It has 2 different effects on the slams, one for each fist (have fun keeping track of those) of extra sonic damage and extra electricity damage. 3d6 sonic is helping, but the 3d6 electricity does nothing since liches are immune. So a maximum output in a round is 36 points of damage to a lich. Perhaps it can make up with spell-like abilities, which include mass inflict light wounds, greater command, and chain lightning. It does have earthquake 1/week, thought that assumes that the lich is on the ground.

The higher ranking Inevitable mentioned in the OP is the Varakhut, which for a CR 19 monster is oddly not that challenging. Next to it is another hilarious inevitable, the Quarut, who deals with people who mess with time and space. It explicitly will go after spellcasters that use temporal stasis or time stop. Its list of spell like abilities includes temporal stasis and time stop. Fiend Folio doesn't care that this is a problem, their description even ends with "However, despite their displeasure with spellcasters that use these spells and abilities, quaruts employ most of these spells with impunity."

[Karl Aegis]

There is a guy that's like Fighter 4/ Rogue 2 or Fighter 2/ Rogue 4 that is explicitly not that good in melee combat. Dude has six levels and 5 BAB and still can't beat a dude in splint mail. I think he's in Book of Vile Darkness.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Even worse, IIRC Obligatum's sword can't actually damage the elder evil's prison, so sending him (it?) was a big waste of time anyway.
No, see, that's actually very clever. They're acting 100% in accordance with the law and making sure the thing stays trapped.

[danielxcutter]

Actually, I think Obligatum can damage the crystal. It has hardness 30, but don't adamantine weapons ignore hardness? And Obligatum has a +2 adamantine vorpal longsword. And thanks to the various construct immunities, he's outright immune to three of the modified prismatic wall effect that the crystal has.

Why Mechanus is trying so hard to screw up literally everyone in the multiverse, on the other hand, is a different story. :smalltongue:

[Temotei]

Actually, I think Obligatum can damage the crystal. It has hardness 30, but don't adamantine weapons ignore hardness? And Obligatum has a +2 adamantine vorpal longsword. And thanks to the various construct immunities, he's outright immune to three of the modified prismatic wall effect that the crystal has.

Why Mechanus is trying so hard to screw up literally everyone in the multiverse, on the other hand, is a different story. :smalltongue:

They only ignore hardness if it's less than 20.

[danielxcutter]

They only ignore hardness if it's less than 20.

Good gravy, then that is stupid. I bet that the guy who came up with Obligatum forgot about that too.

Seriously, couldn't they have given him Power Attack, if not Improved Sunder?

[martixy]

I can think a few stupid things (Pact Primeval for example) but funny stupid...

For two months I tried to fix that. Then I invented an entirely new cosmology where it actually made sense.

Let's see... do the Lumi count? They're more inflexible than even Mechanus, and that's saying something.

Or Nilbogs. Not sure if they exist in 3.5, but they do in PF and a few other places.

Owlbears.

Also, BoVD has a villain that has 4 children tied to his armor at all times. It's like someone went "woo, this is no longer a PG-13 book, let's see how many depravities and atrocities we can check off the list for our first villain". Kinda reminds me of this (https://xkcd.com/323/).

[danielxcutter]

For two months I tried to fix that. Then I invented an entirely new cosmology where it actually made sense.

Let's see... do the Lumi count? They're more inflexible than even Mechanus, and that's saying something.

Or Nilbogs. Not sure if they exist in 3.5, but they do in PF and a few other places.

Owlbears.

Also, BoVD has a villain that has 4 children tied to his armor at all times. It's like someone went "woo, this is no longer a PG-13 book, let's see how many depravities and atrocities we can check off the list for our first villain". Kinda reminds me of this (https://xkcd.com/323/).

Is it even possible for anything to be more Lawful Stupid than Mechanus, the literal plane of Lawful Stupidness?(Okay, technically just order, but still).

[Boozy]

Is it even possible for anything to be more Lawful Stupid than Mechanus, the literal plane of Lawful Stupidness?(Okay, technically just order, but still).

I still consider the Planescape cosmology canon, because it was both more coherent and thematically balanced. Under that system though...

Mechanus always bothered me. If the entire plane consists of interconnected gears and cogs in an infinitely large plane, A single gear being bound by something unmovable would bring the entire place to a halt. Even if Modrons did swarm to correct the issue, the shutdown would throw off timing, and the smallest lapse would be disastrous.

[danielxcutter]

I still consider the Planescape cosmology canon, because it was both more coherent and thematically balanced. Under that system though...

Mechanus always bothered me. If the entire plane consists of interconnected gears and cogs in an infinitely large plane, A single gear being bound by something unmovable would bring the entire place to a halt. Even if Modrons did swarm to correct the issue, the shutdown would throw off timing, and the smallest lapse would be disastrous.

Interesting... never realized that.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Mechanus is just generally stupid funny in too many ways to count.

[Afgncaap5]

I don't think every set of cogs and wheels is connected to every other set. There's some art of weird floating islands of cogs at least, can't remember what book those are in, though.

And even if they were in some metaphysical sense, I've got a feeling that it'd take a bit more than, say, an asteroid sized monkey wrench hitting one of them to throw things off. (Or worse, hitting that particular gear at that time and in that way was always meant to happen, and now that particular subprocess of the plane can shift gears, the Modrons thank you for your obligatory contribution.)

Either way, I think the plane works better in a campaign where a GM is fine with the sillier side of fairy tale sensibilities, even if the campaign itself isn't really that silly.

Also: I don't know if it's stupidly hilarious, but I remember being confounded about Olidammara's lore always seeming to involve weird animals with shells in addition to what you'd expect from a deity known as The Laughing Rogue. It didn't seem to fit. And then I saw his name in a mirror.

I won't say it answered everything, but it did seem satisfying. And then I learned more about his Greyhawk roots and it started making more sense.

[danielxcutter]

I don't think every set of cogs and wheels is connected to every other set. There's some art of weird floating islands of cogs at least, can't remember what book those are in, though.

And even if they were in some metaphysical sense, I've got a feeling that it'd take a bit more than, say, an asteroid sized monkey wrench hitting one of them to throw things off. (Or worse, hitting that particular gear at that time and in that way was always meant to happen, and now that particular subprocess of the plane can shift gears, the Modrons thank you for your obligatory contribution.)

Either way, I think the plane works better in a campaign where a GM is fine with the sillier side of fairy tale sensibilities, even if the campaign itself isn't really that silly.

Also: I don't know if it's stupidly hilarious, but I remember being confounded about Olidammara's lore always seeming to involve weird animals with shells in addition to what you'd expect from a deity known as The Laughing Rogue. It didn't seem to fit. And then I saw his name in a mirror.

I won't say it answered everything, but it did seem satisfying. And then I learned more about his Greyhawk roots and it started making more sense.

His name in a mirror... WHAT IN THE NINE HELLS?!

[KillianHawkeye]

His name in a mirror... WHAT IN THE NINE HELLS?!

I'll be honest, I never noticed that before and I LOL'd. Of course, I never heard about his association with any particular animals in the first place, only knowing him through the generic PHB description, but still......

[Inevitability]

No, see, that's actually very clever. They're acting 100% in accordance with the law and making sure the thing stays trapped.

Oh, I like this theory.


Is it even possible for anything to be more Lawful Stupid than Mechanus, the literal plane of Lawful Stupidness?(Okay, technically just order, but still).

Mechanus really isn't that Lawful Stupid. Yes, there's Obligatum, but they're explicitly defective and probably part of a bigger plan like Grod said.

[danielxcutter]

Mechanus really isn't that Lawful Stupid. Yes, there's Obligatum, but they're explicitly defective and probably part of a bigger plan like Grod said.

Defective? The book does say that they're misguided, is that what you mean?

Also to your statement: The Great Modron March.

[Sam K]

That redeemed succubus paladin.

[danielxcutter]

That redeemed succubus paladin.

Elaborate; I've never thought of that as "stupid hilarious". Silly from a meta example, yes, but still.

[Sam K]

Elaborate; I've never thought of that as "stupid hilarious". Silly from a meta example, yes, but still.

It might just be my personal references, but that character is the kind of thing I'd encounter as a teenager doing free-form RP on IRC(20 or so years ago...). "Oh, lets have a totally unique and special character that is is unique and special because it completely the opposite of what would be expected from it so that makes it unique and special. Hmm.... demon paladin! But that's not special enough, so lets make it really sexy too!"

Also heavy on the Hillarious Stupid alignment:

Paladin of Slaughter!

[danielxcutter]

It might just be my personal references, but that character is the kind of thing I'd encounter as a teenager doing free-form RP on IRC(20 or so years ago...). "Oh, lets have a totally unique and special character that is is unique and special because it completely the opposite of what would be expected from it so that makes it unique and special. Hmm.... demon paladin! But that's not special enough, so lets make it really sexy too!"

I dunno... you have a very good point, but there is some damn good RP potential right there. I'm totally serious; cliches are often used because they're just that effective.


Also heavy on the Hillarious Stupid alignment:

Paladin of Slaughter!

Agreed very much. I am not playing one of those ever, let alone allow them at my table. Blackguard, maybe, but not PoS.

[Sam K]

I dunno... you have a very good point, but there is some damn good RP potential right there. I'm totally serious; cliches are often used because they're just that effective.

I just don't think there's much good RP potential there. Cliches are great for fast story telling: you see a lot of cliches in film, because they have to introduce a lot of characters quickly. Cliches get annoying in series when you keep being exposed to their one-dimensional nature.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a lot of interesting things you could do with a demon who isn't a stereotypical demon. Succubus anarchist rabble rouser! Succubus prey-on-the-willing angel-of-death (literally, if you want to die, you go to her for a very... enjoyable death)! But taking the sexy cliche of sin and turning it into the sexy cliche of virtue is still just a cliche.

Also, it opened the door for "everything can be redeemed" arguements, but that's not as much hilarious as it is annoying.

[danielxcutter]

I just don't think there's much good RP potential there. Cliches are great for fast story telling: you see a lot of cliches in film, because they have to introduce a lot of characters quickly. Cliches get annoying in series when you keep being exposed to their one-dimensional nature.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a lot of interesting things you could do with a demon who isn't a stereotypical demon. Succubus anarchist rabble rouser! Succubus prey-on-the-willing angel-of-death (literally, if you want to die, you go to her for a very... enjoyable death)! But taking the sexy cliche of sin and turning it into the sexy cliche of virtue is still just a cliche.

Also, it opened the door for "everything can be redeemed" arguements, but that's not as much hilarious as it is annoying.

Okay, I get it. I don't 100% agree with your point, but I understand it.

[Afgncaap5]

His name in a mirror... WHAT IN THE NINE HELLS?!

I know, right?



I'll be honest, I never noticed that before and I LOL'd. Of course, I never heard about his association with any particular animals in the first place, only knowing him through the generic PHB description, but still......

Yeah, it's subtle but it's a weird thing that keeps popping up. Case in point, deities and demigods says he can assume the form of "any animal with a shell' making a point to mention snails, turtles, and even dragon turtles but not, uh... well, not the one you might expect.

Also, if you check Complete Scoundrel and go to the pages immediately before everyone's favorite Otyugh pit, there's a special location called Olidammara's Shell, that begins with a legend about him being surrounded by an army, surrounding himself with a carapace, and then teleporting away while leaving the shell behind. The poor ogre army beat on the thing for a year and a day, and he wasn't even there. Later, various people have tried to get the item to use it for their own purposes, but the thing has a tendency to yank itself away from its ardent pursuers, vanishing without a trace right at the moment that it's within their grasp.

Greyhawk's lore does a bit more to explain where this association might've started, but not being as big of a Greyhawk expert as I'd like I don't know if it's a case of "that's absolutely what started it" or "this is just another log on the fire."



Defective? The book does say that they're misguided, is that what you mean?

Also to your statement: The Great Modron March.

I think that's the fairy tale roots showing again. If you play in a fairy tale, then a lot of the alignment planes can take on Stupid as a secondary alignment trait (which is probably why almost all of the Modron sketches resemble illustrations in L. Frank Baum books.) If you wanna play in that kind of campaign world and have Modrons be what the plane is all about, then yep! Lawful Stupid for the most part. If you branch out a bit from that then the plane has room for growth beyond that kinda thing. As the DMG itself points out, while Mechanus seems straightforward initially, "subtleties lurk just below the surface." It's a great place for testing morality of PCs, I find, even better than the Hells or Heavens sometimes. I could put a McGuffin hidden on the opposite end of a tight rope suspended over a pool of super-anarchic water that will burn anyone who falls into it but not burn anyone who walks into it willingly, or a bridge of gear-like lily pads (or lily pad-like gears?) over the same pool, but have every lily pad sink if a player who's stepped on it has broken that lily pad's law (be it "you mustn't have ever killed somebody" or "you must be older than 7 but younger than 43" or "you must never have worn white after labor day.")

[danielxcutter]

Yeah, it's subtle but it's a weird thing that keeps popping up. Case in point, deities and demigods says he can assume the form of "any animal with a shell' making a point to mention snails, turtles, and even dragon turtles but not, uh... well, not the one you might expect.

Also, if you check Complete Scoundrel and go to the pages immediately before everyone's favorite Otyugh pit, there's a special location called Olidammara's Shell, that begins with a legend about him being surrounded by an army, surrounding himself with a carapace, and then teleporting away while leaving the shell behind. The poor ogre army beat on the thing for a year and a day, and he wasn't even there. Later, various people have tried to get the item to use it for their own purposes, but the thing has a tendency to yank itself away from its ardent pursuers, vanishing without a trace right at the moment that it's within their grasp.

Greyhawk's lore does a bit more to explain where this association might've started, but not being as big of a Greyhawk expert as I'd like I don't know if it's a case of "that's absolutely what started it" or "this is just another log on the fire."

Well LOL, I just found my favorite D&D god. That's priceless.


I think that's the fairy tale roots showing again. If you play in a fairy tale, then a lot of the alignment planes can take on Stupid as a secondary alignment trait (which is probably why almost all of the Modron sketches resemble illustrations in L. Frank Baum books.) If you wanna play in that kind of campaign world and have Modrons be what the plane is all about, then yep! Lawful Stupid for the most part. If you branch out a bit from that then the plane has room for growth beyond that kinda thing. As the DMG itself points out, while Mechanus seems straightforward initially, "subtleties lurk just below the surface." It's a great place for testing morality of PCs, I find, even better than the Hells or Heavens sometimes. I could put a McGuffin hidden on the opposite end of a tight rope suspended over a pool of super-anarchic water that will burn anyone who falls into it but not burn anyone who walks into it willingly, or a bridge of gear-like lily pads (or lily pad-like gears?) over the same pool, but have every lily pad sink if a player who's stepped on it has broken that lily pad's law (be it "you mustn't have ever killed somebody" or "you must be older than 7 but younger than 43" or "you must never have worn white after labor day.")

Hmm... a clockwork machine that works by precise programming... except that said programming is beyond the comprehension of mortal beings? Would that be a good description of a non-Lawful Stupid Mechanus?

[Afgncaap5]

Well LOL, I just found my favorite D&D god. That's priceless.



Hmm... a clockwork machine that works by precise programming... except that said programming is beyond the comprehension of mortal beings? Would that be a good description of a non-Lawful Stupid Mechanus?

Possibly. I wouldn't define it so exactly in my games, though, because then I might also deprive myself of the joys of lawful stupidity when I think it fits the story. D-d-d-don't quote me regulations. I co-chaired the committee that reviewed the recommendation to revise the color of the book that regulation's in... We kept it grey... Ultimately, the plane could contain the lawful evilness of a Klingon society just as easily as it might have a plaque in its Hall of Moral Axioms with Jean-Luc Picard's observation that "No law is just if it is an absolute law." There's room to have thinking machines with emotions or bureaucratic madness in the soulless pursuit of legalism in the plane. If you want to see it as a giant computer or machine that's always computing something truly inomprehensible, I might suggest that the actions of all these seemingly contradictory laws and ways of viewing law are actually working together to reach some output that, while unknown, is also inevitable (pun not entirely intended.)

[danielxcutter]

Possibly. I wouldn't define it so exactly in my games, though, because then I might also deprive myself of the joys of lawful stupidity when I think it fits the story. D-d-d-don't quote me regulations. I co-chaired the committee that reviewed the recommendation to revise the color of the book that regulation's in... We kept it grey... Ultimately, the plane could contain the lawful evilness of a Klingon society just as easily as it might have a plaque in its Hall of Moral Axioms with Jean-Luc Picard's observation that "No law is just if it is an absolute law." There's room to have thinking machines with emotions or bureaucratic madness in the soulless pursuit of legalism in the plane. If you want to see it as a giant computer or machine that's always computing something truly inomprehensible, I might suggest that the actions of all these seemingly contradictory laws and ways of viewing law are actually working together to reach some output that, while unknown, is also inevitable (pun not entirely intended.)

Boy, the Neutral alignments are even harder than the corner ones.

[Waker]

If you guys like the Olidammara lore so much, you can read an article talking about him in Dragon #342. According to the article, the origins of the small creature with a carapice-like covering came about when he was robbing a vault owned by Zagag. Zagag transformed the god of thieves as punishment, though eventually Olidammara got better. Deciding that he liked the form, he would occasionally turn into it and it became another symbol for him.

[Buufreak]

I was going to link this thread to the other 2 that have circulated, but funny enough, you started all 3. I am rather doubtful you are going to find much that the original that went on for pages missed.

[The Viscount]

I always found it weird that lawful neutral creatures go to mechanus for their afterlife, because there's almost nothing there but gears, formians, and inevitables. I never knew what you're supposed to do there, just hang out and talk about law things? Or do you just become fodder for the formian mines?

Something I've never understood is why formians are the lawful neutral outsiders, since they're described as conquering slavers. Not exactly neutral behavior.

I haven't seen any official 3.5 content addressing where the Modrons went and if they're just gone now. Something interesting that might have something to do with it is the discussion of Primus in an issue of Dragon Magazine, which explained that Tenebrous destroyed him, leaving them without leadership.
Also, the whole Orcus/Tenebrous issue always seemed a bit foolish. Tenebrous is a deity powerful enough to upset the establishment, but Orcus is a Demon Lord who struggles to beat out Demogorgon.

[hamishspence]

I always found it weird that lawful neutral creatures go to mechanus for their afterlife, because there's almost nothing there but gears, formians, and inevitables. I never knew what you're supposed to do there, just hang out and talk about law things? Or do you just become fodder for the formian mines?

Something I've never understood is why formians are the lawful neutral outsiders, since they're described as conquering slavers. Not exactly neutral behavior.

I haven't seen any official 3.5 content addressing where the Modrons went and if they're just gone now.

There was a web enhancement for 3.0 Manual of the Planes that clarified that yes, they're still around, and gave them stats.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010921a

To sum up - yes, Primus was killed, but there's a new Primus that replaces him.

[Endarire]

A Planar Shepherd10 permanently becomes an Outsider native to his plane he chose at level 1 (Lamannia, Dal Quor, etc.).

A Planar Shepherd9 can Wild Shape into any Elemental or Outsider native to his chosen plane.

Thus, a Planar Shepherd9 with enough Wild Shape boosters (but more likely a Planar Shepherd10) can Wild Shape into another Planar Shepherd10 of his chosen plane within the HD limit.

[danielxcutter]

A Planar Shepherd10 permanently becomes an Outsider native to his plane he chose at level 1 (Lamannia, Dal Quor, etc.).

A Planar Shepherd9 can Wild Shape into any Elemental or Outsider native to his chosen plane.

Thus, a Planar Shepherd9 with enough Wild Shape boosters (but more likely a Planar Shepherd10) can Wild Shape into another Planar Shepherd of his chosen plane within the HD limit.

I think we have a winner.

[Endarire]

Thanks, dan!

[ShurikVch]

Also, the whole Orcus/Tenebrous issue always seemed a bit foolish. Tenebrous is a deity powerful enough to upset the establishment, but Orcus is a Demon Lord who struggles to beat out Demogorgon.Because of botched (interrupted by adventurers) resurrection ritual, Orcus and Tenebrous got separated (like Tymora and Beshaba)

As a result - Orcus got life, but not divinity; Tenebrous - divinity, but not life

Tenebrous (pre-ritual) wrecked establishment because he discovered The Last Word - an utterance so powerful that it could destroy literally anybody; but The Last Word required true divinity, or it will destroy the user as well; so, Orcus nowadays uses lesser diluted variant of it, which allow saving throws, on successful save rebounds back to him, and available only a few times per day

[ShurikVch]

Libris Mortis have variants of regular Vampire; one is Savage Vampire

Dragon #348 have Savage Vampire (separate template)

Does it mean we can make Savage Savage Vampire?

Then I noticed Savage Creature template (Dungeon #140), actually, doesn't change type of base creature
So, Savage Savage Vampire Savage Creature? (It's so savage that you have to say it three times.)

For the extra fun, use Neanderthal as a base creature.
With Feral Creature template.

Savage Savage Vampire Savage Creature Feral Creature Neanderthal
How's it? :smallamused:

[Jormengand]

Libris Mortis have variants of regular Vampire; one is Savage Vampire

Dragon #348 have Savage Vampire (separate template)

Does it mean we can make Savage Savage Vampire?

Then I noticed Savage Creature template (Dungeon #140), actually, doesn't change type of base creature
So, Savage Savage Vampire Savage Creature? (It's so savage that you have to say it three times.)

For the extra fun, use Neanderthal as a base creature.
With Feral Creature template.

Savage Savage Vampire Savage Creature Feral Creature Neanderthal
How's it? :smallamused:

How about a beguiler with levels in beguiler and five levels in scarlet corsair to get the scourge of the seas class feature, with the scourge of the seas feat, the vampire, savage vampire, savage vampire, savage and vampire lord creature templates?

So it's a beguiler beguiler savage savage vampire savage vampire vampire lord scourge of the seas scourge of the seas?

You can also have a dragon dragon dragon disciple dragon shaman purple dragon knight dragon descendant dragon ascendant dragon totem lorekeeper or a knight annointed knight mystic fire knight knight of the raven eldritch knight ruby knight vindicator knight of the lily knight of the sacred seal ruby rose knight knight of the chalice bone knight triadic knight knight of the iron glacier knight of the rose knight of the thorn vengeance knight darksong knight knight of the chalice knight of the skull thayan knight knight platinum knight knight protector knight of the crown knight of the flying hunt knight of tyr's holy judgment vengeance knight knight of the blue moon purple dragon knight knight of the pearl ascetic knight knight of the sword knight-errant of silverymoon... look, there are a lot of knights and I'm not going to list them all, plus you probably fall horribly in half of them by this point.

You can also be a shadow sun ninja ninja ninja spy ninja of the crescent moon.

[danielxcutter]

How about a beguiler with levels in beguiler and five levels in scarlet corsair to get the scourge of the seas class feature, with the scourge of the seas feat, the vampire, savage vampire, savage vampire, savage and vampire lord creature templates?

So it's a beguiler beguiler savage savage vampire savage vampire vampire lord scourge of the seas scourge of the seas?

What.

Can I sig this?

[Jormengand]

What.

Can I sig this?

Be my guest.

[ShurikVch]

So it's a beguiler beguiler savage savage vampire savage vampire vampire lord scourge of the seas scourge of the seas?Sorry to rain on your parade, but Beguiler is a Magical Beast - thus illegal for Savage Vampire (unless you slap on some more templates, or levels in some transformational prc)

[animewatcha]

How about a beguiler with levels in beguiler and five levels in scarlet corsair to get the scourge of the seas class feature, with the scourge of the seas feat, the vampire, savage vampire, savage vampire, savage and vampire lord creature templates?

So it's a beguiler beguiler savage savage vampire savage vampire vampire lord scourge of the seas scourge of the seas?
.

Specializing in fighting style of 'Savage Wrestling' and was thus named.. Randy Savage.

[Jormengand]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but Beguiler is a Magical Beast - thus illegal for Savage Vampire (unless you slap on some more templates, or levels in some transformational prc)

Which I'm pretty sure is relatively trivial to achieve.

[Bohandas]

I still consider the Planescape cosmology canon, because it was both more coherent and thematically balanced. Under that system though...

Mechanus always bothered me. If the entire plane consists of interconnected gears and cogs in an infinitely large plane, A single gear being bound by something unmovable would bring the entire place to a halt.

Or strip the teeth off the gear

[Inevitability]

Which I'm pretty sure is relatively trivial to achieve.

Dustform --> Incarnate Construct makes it humanoid, though it also comes with an annoying hyper-vulnerability to bludgeoning weapons.

[danielxcutter]

Dustform --> Incarnate Construct makes it humanoid, though it also comes with an annoying hyper-vulnerability to bludgeoning weapons.

Please elaborate with this "hyper-vulnerability" - it doesn't click right now.

[Inevitability]

Please elaborate with this "hyper-vulnerability" - it doesn't click right now.

From the book:


Dustform creatures have one fatal weakness. A critical hit with a bludgeoning weapon forces the dustform creature to make a Will save to remain cohesive; otherwise it dissolves into lifeless dust again. The DC for the Will save is equal to 10 + damage dealt.

[danielxcutter]

From the book:

The right ToB strike could dust one of those short of a nat 20. I mean seriously, I doubt that even most epic monsters could pass a save if you used a Strike of Perfect Clarity or one of the Nightmare Blade series.

[ShurikVch]

How about a beguiler with levels in beguiler and five levels in scarlet corsair to get the scourge of the seas class feature, with the scourge of the seas feat, the vampire, savage vampire, savage vampire, savage and vampire lord creature templates?
Note: Beguiler is an Int-based class; Savage Savage Vampire Savage Creature have whopping -8 to Int
+10 Str is nice, but Beguiler have -4 Str and Small size, so unimpressive even as a bruiser
The best thing will, probably, be the +10 Dex, which, with Small size and racial +8 on Hide and Move Silently, can make it decent stealth specialist


So it's a beguiler beguiler savage savage vampire savage vampire vampire lord scourge of the seas scourge of the seas?I think you will need also somehow get access to Beguiling Influence invocation :smallwink:
Why not to add in Crimson Scourge, Scourge Maiden, and Weapon Master with Scourge as a weapon of choice?


You can also have a dragon dragon dragon disciple dragon shaman purple dragon knight dragon descendant dragon ascendant dragon totem lorekeeperNote: for being called Dungeons and Dragons, the game have lots and lots of "...dragon..." stuff, but nowhere close in number of "...dungeon..." stuff :smallamused:


or a knight annointed knight mystic fire knight knight of the raven eldritch knight ruby knight vindicator knight of the lily knight of the sacred seal ruby rose knight knight of the chalice bone knight triadic knight knight of the iron glacier knight of the rose knight of the thorn vengeance knight darksong knight knight of the chalice knight of the skull thayan knight knight platinum knight knight protector knight of the crown knight of the flying hunt knight of tyr's holy judgment vengeance knight knight of the blue moon purple dragon knight knight of the pearl ascetic knight knight of the sword knight-errant of silverymoon... look, there are a lot of knights and I'm not going to list them all, plus you probably fall horribly in half of them by this point.A lot of those knights are not just alignment- and patron- incompatible, but also from completely different settings. Is there a point to mention them in the same character sheet?


You can also be a shadow sun ninja ninja ninja spy ninja of the crescent moon.Maybe, add in Rokugan Ninja?



Which I'm pretty sure is relatively trivial to achieve.Yes; but it doesn't help thematic consistency, and will at least bump CR up; likely, also move LA into double digit range



Dustform --> Incarnate Construct makes it humanoid, though it also comes with an annoying hyper-vulnerability to bludgeoning weapons.I doubt Beguiler is legal for Incarnate Construct trick: it's description says:
This plump quadruped is about the size of a small dog. It is somewhat mouselike in appearance, with big, glistening black eyes, large ears, and a pointed snout.Incarnate Construct required "humanoid-shaped construct"
Fortunately, good old Unseelie Fey should work like a magic (at the price of +1 CR, and with possible unexpectedness from Vision table)

[The Viscount]

Note: for being called Dungeons and Dragons, the game have lots and lots of "...dragon..." stuff, but nowhere close in number of "...dungeon..." stuff :smallamused:

There's still enough to get goofy. You can take a base creature of a Corrupted Half-Ogre and make a Dungeonbred Dungeoncrasher Fighter Dungeon Delver Dungeon Lord with maximum ranks in Knowledge (Dungeoneering).