Most commom Bard mistakes

[MarkVIIIMarc]

In character, in combat, with spell slots, out of character, when filling out a character sheet, whatever.

What mistakes do you see the most with Bards?

I am hoping to use this as a learning experience.

[Specter]

Forgetting that Inspiration lasts for an hour, and then having crowded bonus actions in combat because they didn't give them out earlier.

[Willie the Duck]

Not sure if you'd call it a mistake, but the hardest part of the class is how much managing bonus actions, reactions, and concentration spells you have to do. That's the primary reason why I don't suggest them for new(to the edition)bies.

On spellcasting:
Like any class with a rather limited spell selection, you should make a plan for when you run into a situation where all your spells for slots you have open are not useful. Lots of bard spells are enchantment and illusion. Lots of monsters resist one or the other. Many of the other bard spells are situational (heat metal is awesome... in the situation where you are fighting humanoids), and plenty are area-effect (so if the enemy is comingled with your martials or hostage-types, it could be a problem).
For the Lore bard, that's a real issue, since most of what you will be doing in combat is spells and handing out inspiration. You do have a nice combat cantrip (Vicious Mockery), but it declines in value once opponents get multiple attacks. So finding something else useful to do when you don't have an appropriate spell is a challenge.
For Valor bards, you can of course attack. Note however--having extra attack and an AC which lets you get into melee does not make you a fighter.

[Sirdar]

Making a Valor Bard and thinking: It's great to be a generalist. I will be able to do almost anything!

Start playing and thinking: I'm not best at anything. Me don't likey!

[Theodoxus]

I'm swapping a monk for a bard in an AL run game (it's not officially AL, but the DM is using all the AL rules, for simplicity). We're second level, so I decided to split Bard 1/Cleric [Life] 1, with a plan to go Bard [Lore]19/Cleric 1. I did this for two primary reasons: More AC (scale armor and shield - I'm a stout halfling with an 8 strength, so probably won't go heavy armor, despite having proficiency) and more spell selection. Having Bless and Cure Wounds on deck always, opens up more options for the bard side. Getting Guidance, Spare the Dying and Thaumaturgy is just icing on the cake.

I didn't take any attack cantrips, as my stats are S:8, D:14(12+2), C:14(13+1), I: 10, Wis: 14, Ch: 15 - we're using the standard array. I figured I'd have as much chance to hit with a rapier for 1d8+2 as I do with Vicious Mockery for a d4 (the rider is amazing, but providing another frontliner for the rogues to use sneak with is probably better). I am planning on taking EB at 6th, as my Charisma will be 16 then.

The other thing I did (and will continue to do throughout his career) is list out all the spells I'm going to be taking, by level. Which ones i'll be swapping out, etc. I read probably 4 or 5 guides on bards - from as far back as Sep 2014, through a more recent one from April - just googled and read...

I've DM'd my share of them, and have found Lore more useful in large parties, Valor better in smaller ones. Pure support tends to win over building for combat - though if you're the only one capable of tossing a fireball by 6th level, that has turned the tide more then once against popcorn style mooks - so don't forget to fall back on oldies but goodies.

I went stout because it was the only halfling race available in the homebrew campaign world we're in - and we're using critical fumble tables, so halfling is a must (I HATE critical fumbles). This is the first character I'll be playing that hasn't had at least a 16 in a primary stat at start. (The monk I was swapping from had a 16 dex). So it'll be an anecdotal test of the bounded accuracy concept... will I be left in the dust behind the 16's or will I hold my own (I'm pretty sure I'll be fine...)

My plan is to be the wind beneath my parties wings. Bless, Faerie Fire or Sanctuary depending on the need... Heals for days (well, not quite yet, having only 3 slots), capable of wading into the fray or holding back and scraping people up, as necessary. I'll be playing it as a healer, but with a bit more fun (discordant whispers for the win!).

[Tanarii]

Making a Valor Bard and thinking: It's great to be a generalist. I will be able to do almost anything!

Start playing and thinking: I'm not best at anything. Me don't likey!I've had a couple of Valor Bard players, and Pact of the Blade Warlock players.

Most of them are happy being generalists, at least in regards to getting a minor melee buff. But there are definitely some that don't like not being AMAZEBALLS in melee combat, equal to a Fighter or whatever, despite having (most) of the spellcasting etc capabilities of their their non-melee-subclass bretheren.

OTOH, those that don't like it just retire that character and start a new one. I don't run a one-party campaign, so it's not like it's some big disaster requiring me to allow a character rebuild. If I had a single-party campaign well into Tier 2, I'd probably consider allowing that.


(it's not officially AL, but the DM is using all the AL rules, for simplicity).I thought that's all it takes to make a character AL legal? Using the AL rules. Or do you mean you're not logging and running AL adventurers, just using the character building rules? Curiosity overcomes me /threadtangant

[Mr. Crowbar]

At first I thought Inspiration took a full action instead of a bonus action. Thinking back I'm wondering why no one got after me for wasting so many turns.

I also saw another guy burn through all his Inspiration in one combat, not realising it doesn't recharge on short rests until level 5. Dude also didn't understand about concentration.

[Sirdar]

I've had a couple of Valor Bard players, and Pact of the Blade Warlock players.

Most of them are happy being generalists, at least in regards to getting a minor melee buff. But there are definitely some that don't like not being AMAZEBALLS in melee combat, equal to a Fighter or whatever, despite having (most) of the spellcasting etc capabilities of their their non-melee-subclass bretheren.

OTOH, those that don't like it just retire that character and start a new one. I don't run a one-party campaign, so it's not like it's some big disaster requiring me to allow a character rebuild. If I had a single-party campaign well into Tier 2, I'd probably consider allowing that.

Yes, there are definitely a lot of players that appreciate a Valor Bard in melee (with a DPR of around 70% of a standard S&B Fighter) for the versatility the spellcasting brings. Some people know exactly what they want, and what they get, when they make a Valor Bard (or Bladelock). I think the absence of an arcane half-caster is the reason behind most Valor Bard complaints in this forum.

[Dragonix]

Most common bard mistake: rolling up a bard and thinking you will regularly make the session's OP play of the game.

[Specter]

Most common bard mistake: rolling up a bard and thinking you will regularly make the session's OP play of the game.

...what???

[Theodoxus]

Yes, there are definitely a lot of players that appreciate a Valor Bard in melee (with a DPR of around 70% of a standard S&B Fighter) for the versatility the spellcasting brings. Some people know exactly what they want, and what they get, when they make a Valor Bard (or Bladelock). I think the absence of an arcane half-caster is the reason behind most Valor Bard complaints in this forum.

IDK, it seems you'd get more mileage out of a Lore Bard with a single dip in War Cleric. The Wis requirement isn't that harsh, you'd be a fool to have less than a 12, and it's not that expensive (or hard if rolling) to get a 13+ in Wisdom. But for that, you get all martial weapons, and heavy armor to boot. With the added versatility of more skills, arguably better Inspiration with Cutting Words, and 2 more spells at 6th, I'd say this combination is better than a pure valor bard build - but then I've never been impressed by Valor bards, so take my bias for what it's worth...

[Aaron Underhand]

I would say thinking Half Elf is better than Variant Human...

Second is trying to build a melee character that will pretty much always rely on spells with concentration requirements

Oh and trying to build for melee if the SCAG cantrips are not available

[scalyfreak]

Not planning ahead when creating the character.

If the campaign is going to be heavy on combat, all those proficiency bonuses in Performance and Persuasion might not be very useful. And vice versa, if it's a heavily politics/intrigue focused campaign.

[Dragonix]

...what???

Some players tend to think they can play the bard more offensively or in your face. What they don't get it that a bard, no matter how you cut, is more of a support class. They think they can just play them as a straight up rogue/sorcerer and they end up getting disappointed. :)

[ZealousObject]

Forgetting that Inspiration lasts for an hour, and then having crowded bonus actions in combat because they didn't give them out earlier.

Specter it's 10 min's man not an hour

But for the Topic at hand, this is coming from a guy who hasn't played a bard and only partied with one currently (Whose Player is more passive) just so you understand where I'm coming from, I'd say not finding a good middle ground between Arcane Spellcaster and Musician / Artist.

Some people won't even think about how creating music makes their magic work (Not to say all Bards have to use the Musical Instrument Foci, but come on you're a Bard) and incorporating some form of music into their character / importance to them (PC).

While others go too far onto the other end, wanting to be the center of attention too many times and focusing too hard on the Artistic side of the class instead of being an Adventurer with the rest of the group.

[solidork]

Cutting Words cannot be used to penalize saving throws.

[Sigreid]

Thinking yout character's charisma transfers to you and engaging in insults and pranks that make your DM and party want to kill you.

[Specter]

Specter it's 10 min's man not an hour

But for the Topic at hand, this is coming from a guy who hasn't played a bard and only partied with one currently (Whose Player is more passive) just so you understand where I'm coming from, I'd say not finding a good middle ground between Arcane Spellcaster and Musician / Artist.

Some people won't even think about how creating music makes their magic work (Not to say all Bards have to use the Musical Instrument Foci, but come on you're a Bard) and incorporating some form of music into their character / importance to them (PC).

While others go too far onto the other end, wanting to be the center of attention too many times and focusing too hard on the Artistic side of the class instead of being an Adventurer with the rest of the group.

Looks like I made a mistake!

But about the rest of your post: it's not (necessarily) about music, but oratory too. 5e states that Bards draw their power from the Words of Creation.


Some players tend to think they can play the bard more offensively or in your face. What they don't get it that a bard, no matter how you cut, is more of a support class. They think they can just play them as a straight up rogue/sorcerer and they end up getting disappointed. :)

There's nothing wrong with playing an offense-oriented bard, as long as you pick the right magical secrets to go with. Even Lore Bards with Find Steed can do well in the fray.

[KorvinStarmast]

.. our bard kept forgetting the vicious mockery profides disadvantage on the target, and is a wisdom save. Fighting giants and ogres, with low wisdom scores, makes that a sweet way to help the martials in the front line.

When he'd be unable to play and I ran the bard, our martials got hit less often because I used that very cheap spell to make the enemy less able to end the fight with a couple of heavy blows.

Forgetting to use Bardic Inspiration at various times.

Forgetting to do the song of rest during short rests to help people heal. (Another thing that got corrected when I ran the bard a couple of sessions and then everyone demanded it of him).

[Willie the Duck]

.. our bard kept forgetting the vicious mockery profides disadvantage on the target, and is a wisdom save. Fighting giants and ogres, with low wisdom scores, makes that a sweet way to help the martials in the front line.

When he'd be unable to play and I ran the bard, our martials got hit less often because I used that very cheap spell to make the enemy less able to end the fight with a couple of heavy blows.

Forgetting to use Bardic Inspiration at various times.

Forgetting to do the song of rest during short rests to help people heal. (Another thing that got corrected when I ran the bard a couple of sessions and then everyone demanded it of him).

And I think that's the grand mistake that people make, is thinking that the bard is a low-intensity, low-maintenance kind of class that doesn't require a lot of attention, etc.. It is definitely not.

[JellyPooga]

The assumption "All Bards are Elan" (to paraphrase) is the most common one I notice. The notion that Bards are no longer (though they can be) the "Minstrel in a dungeon" and can run the gamut of concepts from "grizzled veteran" to "master of the arcane" and many things in between. Too many people dismiss Bards or don't want to play them because of this false assumption.

[MaxWilson]

In character, in combat, with spell slots, out of character, when filling out a character sheet, whatever.

What mistakes do you see the most with Bards?

I am hoping to use this as a learning experience.

Most common Bard mistake I see in practice is realizing after the fact that he meant to give out Bardic Inspiration on his turn, but didn't.

[Klorox]

The biggest mistake bard players make is looking at their character sheets for answers.

[scalyfreak]

I don't think that's limited to the Bard class...

[mgshamster]

The most common bard mistake was choosing to become a bard.

*Ducks and runs away*

[Klorox]

I don't think that's limited to the Bard class...
No, it's not. But the real power of this class lies in it's creativity.

You can make a non-thinking fighter, barbarian, or blaster and do fine in an AL game.

[scalyfreak]

No, it's not. But the real power of this class lies in it's creativity.

You can make a non-thinking fighter, barbarian, or blaster and do fine in an AL game.

Sure, if you want to be boring about it. :smalltongue:

I'm agreeing with you. Bards are fun for outside-the-box approaches to anything.