The Greatest Swordsman in the World!!!

[BestPlayer]

If I wanted to make a character who wanted to be the greatest swordsman in the world and through the many levels of advancement became someone who isn't perhaps "The best in the world", but pretty damn close, what would he be? Fighter duelist?

[Iamcreative]

I guess it would depend in how you define 'greatest in the world'. Just a duelist build could work if you say went 1 fighter/x rogue (swashbuckler). But if youre looking for highest damage it would probably be a fighter or barb with GWM.


Which makes me think that it also depends on what you mean by sword. Just any sword type? Does rapier or a greatsword count? Or just longsword?

But a straight fighter is never a terrible idea

[Corran]

I would very much like to say a two-weapon-fighting fighter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOryLeU86A), but instead I'll say that a damn good 5e swordsman would definitelly probably have the GWM feat.

[Spiritchaser]

Lots of contenders

Battlemaster obviousley, and champion too I think
Swashbuckler can really do well in fencing competitions
Honestly, a Hexblade who sells their soul for martial strength is pretty capable, and I can easily see a concept based on exactly that working out edit: either with the classic STR/gwm F1 bladelock x, or with the CHA build that Hexblade allows
I wouldn't pick sorcadin Or paladin for conceptual reasons, they aren't all about that sword... but there's no denying the effectiveness. For the same reason I wouldn't pick barb. Too much of their psyche is tied up with being an angry wall of meat.

[clash]

Kensai monk could also be added to the list if using the revised version

[Ketiara]

A great swordsman should also avoid being hit, with either parry, armor or dodge... but also skirmish. I would say the swashbuckler rogue should be part of it so atleast 3 lvls swashbuckler if you ask me.

[Spiritchaser]

Kensai monk could also be added to the list if using the revised version

Not sure why I didn't write that... It would absolutely fit

[jaappleton]

I'll be brutally honest here: I absolutely hate the Kensei. I'm salty over no Heavy weapons being used with Dex. I know it's OP, but damnit, I wanted it so badly.

That said? It'll work here. It will. Monks are DAMN good. Bonus action to dodge. Stunning Strike. Movement like a damn cheetah. And when you get high enough level, proficiency in EVERY DAMN SAVING THROW. I envision this style character as one who is totally serene on the battlefield, deftly dodging blows as they move behind their opponent and take advantage of their foes lack of skill before cutting them down.

Another contender nobody else mentioned?

Samurai Fighter. 3X every short rest, you gain Resistance to nonmagical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage, and Advantage on all your attacks until the end of your next turn. Grab GWM and a 2H weapon and go to town. I envision this style fighter as someone who challenges their foes toe to toe, taking their hits and delivering it back tenfold, using that Samurai ability for Advantage coupled with Action Surge to just cleave enemies.

[GlenSmash!]

Kensei Swordsman is so good, that he will spend a good portion of his attacks not even using his sword!

Using Flurry of Blows, that is.

[Afrodactyl]

Dex Battlemaster fighter with some levels in rogue and hunter ranger for a fencer?

So rapier and shield, duelling fighting style, Battlemaster maneuvers, sneak attack, hunters mark and Colossus Slayer, and potentially taking defensive duelist to complement the parry maneuver.

Obviously a lot of investment, but would be pretty decent against single targets.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd say Battlemaster Fighter 5/Swashbuckler Rogue 15 is a pretty good version of things. A combat style and two attacks is about the minimum, to which we add maneuvers, a bunch of sneak attack dice to simulate a single devastating strike, uncanny dodge to simulate parrying...

[DracoKnight]

I'd say Battlemaster Fighter 5/Swashbuckler Rogue 15 is a pretty good version of things. A combat style and two attacks is about the minimum, to which we add maneuvers, a bunch of sneak attack dice to simulate a single devastating strike, uncanny dodge to simulate parrying...

I agree. If you want to play "the greatest swordsman in the world" I think Grod's hit the nail on the head for how to do it :smallbiggrin:

[Specter]

The only things I think are mandatory are Fighting Style and Extra Attack. The rest can take many forms. I'd personally do Fighter (Champ or BM) 5/Swashbuckler 15.

What's important to note is that great swordsmanship is not about raw damage; in a duel, defense is fundamental.

[Vogonjeltz]

The only things I think are mandatory are Fighting Style and Extra Attack. The rest can take many forms. I'd personally do Fighter (Champ or BM) 5/Swashbuckler 15.

What's important to note is that great swordsmanship is not about raw damage; in a duel, defense is fundamental.

Doesn't that make a TWF Battlemaster 20 the best in the world? They can attempt to disarm 9 times in one turn (6 of those could be done by forcing a save), not that it's likely to require more than even one attempt.

Superiority Dice bring lots of combat options to the table, and being able to swap attacks for contests gives a pure Fighter greater action economy.

[CaptainSarathai]

Doesn't that make a TWF Battlemaster 20 the best in the world? They can attempt to disarm 9 times in one turn (6 of those could be done by forcing a save), not that it's likely to require more than even one attempt.

Superiority Dice bring lots of combat options to the table, and being able to swap attacks for contests gives a pure Fighter greater action economy.

It would, except that a lot of the Fighter stuff just gets kinda redundant after a while. Going to a high level with Rogue gives you some really cool stuff, plus insane Sneak Attack damage.

BattleMasters really give me that sense of "I'm the very best swordsman" because they can do "special moves" with their attacks. Like,
"I'm going to attack him, but I want to slash his wrist and make him drop his weapon, and then gloat."
So you do a Disarming Strike.
That kind of thing feels really cool to me.

Also, you can actually a lot with a Fighter/Rogue if you go Swashbuckler. You can dual wield or grab Shield Master and suddenly start shoving people around the battlefield and moving away. I also like going Half Elf and picking up Booming Blade for my cantrip, so that I can also tag people and then back off and let them get zapped if they want to rejoin the fight. You can pick up a Hand Crossbow in the off hand and still use your Maneuvers for that, especially with Crossbow Expert, so that you're suddenly getting in crazy trick shots and so on.
Half Plate with Medium Armor Master and a solid Dex, mixed with Parry and/or the Rogue's ability to take half damage as a reaction can make things really fun as well.

In my opinion, playing the Fighter/Rogue feels like it gives me a lot more choices in combat, like a Caster, without robbing my of my chances to roll for big damage.

[Unoriginal]

Well, I don't have the time to do it right now, but it'd be interesting to look at the different sword-using NPCs/monsters, see how good they are with it, and compare the scores with the PC.

The Greatest Swordsman in the World has to be better than them.

[Corran]

Well, I don't have the time to do it right now, but it'd be interesting to look at the different sword-using NPCs/monsters, see how good they are with it, and compare the scores with the PC.

The Greatest Swordsman in the World has to be better than them.
You know what... this thread made me think of your Marilith NPC. Having many hands is certainly a pro for a good swordsman.

[Dudewithknives]

I'll be brutally honest here: I absolutely hate the Kensei. I'm salty over no Heavy weapons being used with Dex. I know it's OP, but damnit, I wanted it so badly.

That said? It'll work here. It will. Monks are DAMN good. Bonus action to dodge. Stunning Strike. Movement like a damn cheetah. And when you get high enough level, proficiency in EVERY DAMN SAVING THROW. I envision this style character as one who is totally serene on the battlefield, deftly dodging blows as they move behind their opponent and take advantage of their foes lack of skill before cutting them down.

Another contender nobody else mentioned?

Samurai Fighter. 3X every short rest, you gain Resistance to nonmagical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage, and Advantage on all your attacks until the end of your next turn. Grab GWM and a 2H weapon and go to town. I envision this style fighter as someone who challenges their foes toe to toe, taking their hits and delivering it back tenfold, using that Samurai ability for Advantage coupled with Action Surge to just cleave enemies.

The ability the Kensai get at level 3 thay gives them 2 ac makes no sense to me.

Say I pick a rapier as my Kensai weapon.

The class has a built in bonus of 2 ac, for you not using your weapon.

If your martial arts damage die is as good as the weapon ' s normal damge die, you would be better off just standing there holding the weapon and punching someone.

Also, I find it odd they do not get a fighting style.

[Vaz]

You know what... this thread made me think of your Marilith NPC. Having many hands is certainly a pro for a good swordsman.

So True Polymorph?

[Ralanr]

Swashbuckler/Champion would probably be the best combination. You'll have the best stats to swordfight, but lack the tricks.

[scalyfreak]

I saw the thread title and expected to find a thread on how to re-create Madmartigan .

So disappointed. :smallfrown:

[Klorox]

I saw the thread title and expected to find a thread on how to re-create Madmartigan .

So disappointed. :smallfrown:

OMG, you beat me to it!!!

LMAO

[Llama513]

While I haven't yet gotten to play test the new system, I think my Tome of Battle Transfer (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ryejTJ2Ox) may be worth a look, the maneuver system (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/H1-QbJXcW-) is separate as I want to make sure I have it right before I fully integrate it into the original

[Decstarr]

Do you want to consider a realistic environment or are you talking mere game mechanics? Because iirc in real life, rapiers only came up after gunpower was discovered, rendering armor obsolete. Before that, what would've been the use of poking a plate mail guy with a needle?

If you go by WoT, it was Jearom, who was only once defeated in his life, by a farmer with a quarterstaff. By that logic, I'd say the greatest fighter would have to be wielding a quarterstaff like weapon.

By pure game mechanics, I'd go with a monk for that very reason.

Has anyone ever done a mock combat between all these suggestions? I think in terms of a 1on1 tournament without any regard to resource management, a lvl 20 monk would probably not fare too badly against most enemies - if the arena is big enough to abuse the high ms.

Edit: guess my tired brain turned "greatest swordsman" into "greatest duelist", so ignore what I said ~~

[qube]

Because iirc in real life, rapiers only came up after gunpower was discovered, rendering armor obsolete. Before that, what would've been the use of poking a plate mail guy with a needle? Err ... you do know swords don't slash through plate mail, no?

If not impact weapons like maces and warhammers, or using a piercing sword (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_9XZpCMsUI), the murderstroke (https://thehemaists.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/thott-87r.jpg) would probbably be your thing.

As far as flavor goes, in a 'low magic' fantasy, I'd put my money on a fullplated greatsword wielder with a few manouvers (you know, battlemaster or that feat).

[Unoriginal]

The Guide of Swordsfighters



Here is listed all the sword-using NPCs and their related fencing prowesses in the MM and the Volo's.

Greatsword:

Planetar: +12

Solar: +15, two attacks

Fire Giant: +11, two attacks

Storm Giant: +14, two attacks

Githyanki Warrior: +4 to hit, two attacks

Githyanki Knight: +6 (+9 with the magic weapon), two attacks

Hobgoblin Captain: +4, two attacks

Gray Slaad: +7, two attacks with sword one with bite

Death Slaad: +9, two attacks with sword one with bite

Variant Warrior Vampire: +9, two attacks

Tanarukk: +7, one attack with sword one with bite

Champion: +9, three attacks

Warlord: +9, two attacks

Longsword

Flying Sword: +3

Death Knight: + 11, two attacks, Parry

Balor: +14, one attack with sword one with whip

Marilith: +9, six attacks with swords one with tail, Parry

Erinyes: +8, three attacks, Parry

Drider: +6, three attacks

Half Red Dragon Veteran: +5 , two longsword attacks and one shortsword attack

Helmed Horror: +6, two attacks

Hobgoblin: +3

Hobgoblin Warlord: +9, three attacks

Sprite: +2

Wight: +4, two attacks

Ultroloth: +8, three attacks

Veteran: +5, two attacks with longsword one wih shortsword

Orc Blade of Ilneval: +5, two attacks

Tlincalli: +6, one attack with sword one with sting

Shortsword

Drow: +4

Drow Elite Warrior: +7, two attacks, Parry

Half Red Dragon Veteran: +5 to hit

Kenku: +5

Wererat: +4, two attacks

Medusa: +5, two attacks with shortsword one with snake hair

Skeleton: +4

Assassin: +7, two attacks

Scout: +4, two attacks

Spy: +4, two attacks

Veteran: +5

Darkling Elder: +5, two attacks

Gnoll Flesh Gnawer: +4, two attacks with sword one with bite

Xvart: +4

Archer: +6

Master Thief: +7, three attacks



"Sword"

Iron Golem: +13, two attacks

Lightning Sword

Storm Giant Quintessent: +14, two attacks with Lightning Sword one with Wind Javelin


So, to recap, most beings won't go above +9 to hit and 3 attacks, which is already "general of a Fiend army" level. Only an handful of beings get above +11, and none go above +15.

[Corran]

As far as flavor goes, in a 'low magic' fantasy, I'd put my money on a fullplated greatsword wielder with a few manouvers (you know, battlemaster or that feat).
The Hound agrees (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JNZBgu19Ys) with you.

[BestPlayer]

I was really thinking more then Inigo Montoya kind of swordsman.

[Unoriginal]

I was really thinking more then Inigo Montoya kind of swordsman.

So a DEX Champion.

Just joking. Even if Inigo is a DEX Champion, there are other builds that would fit the idea. Most notoriously the Swashbuckler subclass.

[nickl_2000]

I was really thinking more then Inigo Montoya kind of swordsman.

It's odd, when I think of someone who has that attitude I think of the rapier type light weapon fencer. Bear chested and living completely off their wits and skills, the attitude and style would be more like Prince Oberyn Martell from Game of Thrones.

I think a Kensai Monk/Fighter Battlemaster would be a very effective way to play this type of character

[Specter]

I was really thinking more then Inigo Montoya kind of swordsman.

Can't go wrong with Fighter 5/Swash X.

[sightlessrealit]

If only bard got Magical Secrets at 17th level & not 18th level. They, and more in particular Valor Bards could have a shot in the running with Shapechange(turning into a Marilith with all class abilities intact).

[MeeposFire]

One thing that is cool about a fighter/rogue is that it has really nice defenses to go with the nice damage. I like going fighter first.

AC will be good due to plate or half plate and possible shield. Uncanny dodge also helps against attacks. As for saves you get str and con saves which both are great for a melee guy. Dex saves will be lower (no prof and possibly not attack stat level dex) but you have fighter HP for the first 5 levels and then later when you pick up evasion you take only half damage if you fail your dex save which is a great way to mitigate the lack of dex save prof. With all of those ASIs you may very well be able to afford resilience for the save of your choice and later if you go far enough you can get wisdom saves via slippery mind.

As an alternative that requires refalvoring you could go EK and choose only spells that can be falvored as being warrior skill. Shield would be a defensive gambit for a round that is too taxing to do too many times a day. Booming blade would be an extra deadly attack that sets up the enemy for punishment when you see him move (and you use war magic to get your second attack in a round). This also works well with rogue.

[Easy_Lee]

If you just want to beat other martials, an Alert Dex-based pure Battle Master with the disarm maneuver will probably win most of the time. But that question is: in what context?

Fighter BM 5 / Swash X is great, and has more out-of-combat utility than most fighters.
Barbarians do the most melee damage
An assassin/fighter can kill many things in a single surprise round
Champions deal consistent damage and still operate long after everyone else has run out of resources



Fighter / Swash or pure Dex BM are the closest to Inigo Montoya.

[GlenSmash!]

Since a fair amount of Longsword fighting techniques involved grappling, my favorite Swordsman character is one that shines at seizing his enemy putting him on the ground and slipping his sword through the weak points in his foe's armor.

So like I a Fighter, Barb, Rogue combo. Rage and Expertise in athletics makes for killer Grapples.

[Klorox]

Swordchucks yo.

[scalyfreak]

Swordchucks yo.

LOL!

It's like Bruce Lee meets Musashi, only better!